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Who is the most underrated Saint of all*time?

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Larry Cipa! His career 37.0% completion percentage, blistering 2.1 yards per pass and 1 touchdown are the stuff of legend!! All you can say now is "What If?"...

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Old 07-26-2017, 07:27 PM   #21
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Re: Who is the most underrated Saint of all*time?

Larry Cipa! His career 37.0% completion percentage, blistering 2.1 yards per pass and 1 touchdown are the stuff of legend!! All you can say now is "What If?"
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Old 07-26-2017, 08:25 PM   #22
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Re: Who is the most underrated Saint of all*time?

Wayne Martin. Guy was just a solid D-lineman. Never got a lot of credit outside of New Orleans. Just quietly went about doing his job very well.
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Old 07-26-2017, 08:35 PM   #23
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Re: Who is the most underrated Saint of all*time?

Originally Posted by dizzle88 View Post
Pierre Thomas I would say.

Never got mentioned and all he did was deliver.

Watch the Super Bowl, Thomas sparked our offense in the second half.
No doubt. It's almost as if the Saints themselves underrated him.
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Old 07-26-2017, 09:57 PM   #24
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Re: Who is the most underrated Saint of all*time?

Originally Posted by SaintGnome View Post
I gotta go with Joe Horn. He was putting up better numbers than the diva WR's of his time...
Joe Horn played for the Saints from 2000-2006 and ranked well, but behind some of those divas...

Code:
                                                                                              
                                                  Game                                    Rece
Rk             Player From   To  Draft  Tm  Lg   G  GS  Tgt Rec  Yds   Y/R TD  Y/G Ctch% Y/Tgt
1          Torry Holt 2000 2006    1-6 RAM NFL 110 101 1092 660 9887 14.98 58 89.9 60.4%  9.05
2    Marvin Harrison* 2000 2006   1-19 CLT NFL 110 110 1101 711 9556 13.44 89 86.9 64.6%  8.68
3       Terrell Owens 2000 2006   3-89 TOT NFL  96  94  975 579 8408 14.52 84 87.6 59.4%  8.62
4          Randy Moss 2000 2006   1-21 TOT NFL 106 105  945 527 7974 15.13 73 75.2 55.8%  8.44
5            Joe Horn 2000 2006  5-135 NOR NFL 102 100  903 523 7622 14.57 50 74.7 57.9%  8.44
6           Rod Smith 2000        2006 DEN NFL 110 109  962 592 7578 12.80 43 68.9 61.5%  7.88
7         Isaac Bruce 2000 2006   2-33 RAM NFL 106 102  832 498 7548 15.16 39 71.2 59.9%  9.07
8       Derrick Mason 2000 2006   4-98 TOT NFL 109 102  867 560 7329 13.09 39 67.2 64.6%  8.45
9          Hines Ward 2000 2006   3-92 PIT NFL 109 108  892 572 7121 12.45 51 65.3 64.1%  7.98
10       Chad Johnson 2001 2006   2-36 CIN NFL  92  79  828 466 6925 14.86 41 75.3 56.3%  8.36
11        Eric Moulds 2000 2006   1-24 TOT NFL 108 107  959 551 6718 12.19 31 62.2 57.5%  7.01
12        Jimmy Smith 2000 2005   2-36 JAX NFL  91  90  835 481 6613 13.75 39 72.7 57.6%  7.92
13   Laveranues Coles 2000 2006   3-78 TOT NFL 109  99  889 506 6599 13.04 31 60.5 56.9%  7.42
14   Keyshawn Johnson 2000 2006    1-1 TOT NFL 105 103  893 509 6463 12.70 33 61.6 57.0%  7.24
15    Muhsin Muhammad 2000 2006   2-43 TOT NFL 103 103  870 486 6446 13.26 38 62.6 55.9%  7.41
16    Darrell Jackson 2000 2006   3-80 SEA NFL  96  89  790 441 6445 14.61 47 67.1 55.8%  8.16
17    Plaxico Burress 2000 2006    1-8 TOT NFL 102  97  794 400 6366 15.92 39 62.4 50.4%  8.02
18       Amani Toomer 2000 2006   2-34 NYG NFL 103  97  810 438 6339 14.47 35 61.5 54.1%  7.83
19   Keenan McCardell 2000 2006 12-326 TOT NFL  99  95  742 469 5908 12.60 35 59.7 63.2%  7.96
20      Donald Driver 2000 2006  7-213 GNB NFL 108  78  723 418 5898 14.11 35 54.6 57.8%  8.16
Provided by Pro-Football-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 7/26/2017.

Originally Posted by SaintGnome View Post
...but never got a pro bowl...
4× Pro Bowl (2000–2002, 2004)

Originally Posted by SaintGnome View Post
... or any attention at all from the MSM until that stupid phone stunt and then it wasn't exactly good attention.
Cost his team a 15 yard Unsportsmanship Penalty...

Originally Posted by SaintGnome View Post
I think Colston to some degree also was underrated but my problem with Marques is he had his dropsy spells periodically where his hands turned to bricks. Joe was much more consistent IMO.
This chart of Saints WRs/TEs is ordered based on catch percentage; do note, where Colston (37) ranks in regards to Horn (56) and the company Horn keeps at the bottom of this chart...

Code:
                                                                                                 
                                                     Game                                    Rece
Rk                 Player From   To Draft  Tm  Lg   G  GS  Tgt Rec  Yds   Y/R TD  Y/G Ctch% Y/Tgt
17         Michael Thomas 2016 2016  2-47 NOR NFL  15  12  121  92 1137 12.36  9 75.8 76.0%  9.40
18       Adrian Arrington 2010 2012 7-237 NOR NFL   5   0   12   9  110 12.22  0 22.0 75.0%  9.17
20            Reggie Bush 2006 2010   1-2 NOR NFL  60  41  402 294 2142  7.29 12 35.7 73.1%  5.33
21           Kenny Stills 2013 2014 5-144 NOR NFL  31  17  133  95 1572 16.55  8 50.7 71.4% 11.82
22          John Phillips 2016 2016 6-208 NOR NFL   8   4    7   5   32  6.40  0  4.0 71.4%  4.57
25         Jeremy Shockey 2008 2010  1-14 NOR NFL  38  34  198 139 1460 10.50  6 38.4 70.2%  7.37
26           Willie Snead 2015       2016 NOR NFL  30  13  205 141 1879 13.33  7 62.6 68.8%  9.17
27   Michael Hoomanawanui 2015 2015 5-132 NOR NFL  12   8   16  11   76  6.91  3  6.3 68.8%  4.75
28          Brandin Cooks 2014 2016  1-20 NOR NFL  42  32  315 215 2861 13.31 20 68.1 68.3%  9.08
29           David Thomas 2009 2012  3-86 NOR NFL  48  25  120  81  677  8.36  7 14.1 67.5%  5.64
30              Irv Smith 1993 1997  1-20 NOR NFL  66  55  199 134 1300  9.70  9 19.7 67.3%  6.53
31            Lance Moore 2006       2013 NOR NFL 101  30  518 346 4281 12.37 38 42.4 66.8%  8.26
35             Ben Watson 2013 2015  1-32 NOR NFL  47  31  171 113 1187 10.50 10 25.3 66.1%  6.94
36           Jimmy Graham 2010 2014  3-95 NOR NFL  78  50  595 386 4752 12.31 51 60.9 64.9%  7.99
37        Marques Colston 2006 2015 7-252 NOR NFL 146 106 1099 711 9759 13.73 72 66.8 64.7%  8.88
39        Brandon Coleman 2015       2016 NOR NFL  32   7   87  56  735 13.13  5 23.0 64.4%  8.45
41         Tommylee Lewis 2016       2016 NOR NFL  12   1   11   7   76 10.86  0  6.3 63.6%  6.91
44         Robert Meachem 2008 2014  1-27 NOR NFL  88  32  260 164 2707 16.51 25 30.8 63.1% 10.41
45              Josh Hill 2013       2016 NOR NFL  55  21   82  51  489  9.59  9  8.9 62.2%  5.96
46           Coby Fleener 2016 2016  2-34 NOR NFL  16   8   81  50  631 12.62  3 39.4 61.7%  7.79
56               Joe Horn 2000 2006 5-135 NOR NFL 102 100  903 523 7622 14.57 50 74.7 57.9%  8.44
57         Torrance Small 1992 1996 5-138 NOR NFL  72  16  304 176 2180 12.39 16 30.3 57.9%  7.17
62       Devery Henderson 2004 2012  2-50 NOR NFL 124  76  442 245 4377 17.87 20 35.3 55.4%  9.90
64       Donte Stallworth 2002 2005  1-13 NOR NFL  56  33  359 195 2791 14.31 23 49.8 54.3%  7.77
65          Ernie Conwell 2003 2006  2-59 NOR NFL  41  34  105  57  614 10.77  5 15.0 54.3%  5.85
Provided by Pro-Football-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 7/26/2017.

Maybe everyone remembers Marques Colston's drops because they were infrequent through most of his career and because of his last two seasons, sub-par for him, while playing with injured knee, leg, and ankle; and maybe others like the "MSM" are too busy failing to do their homework and paid too much attention to the Diva Dives and not enough to the quiet storm of production...

“Your best?!? Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home (with) the prom queen.” - Sean Connery in The Rock
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Old 07-27-2017, 07:32 AM   #25
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Re: Who is the most underrated Saint of all*time?

Originally Posted by SaintGnome View Post
I gotta go with Joe Horn. He was putting up better numbers than the diva WR's of his time but never got a pro bowl or any attention at all from the MSM until that stupid phone stunt and then it wasn't exactly good attention. I think Colston to some degree also was underrated but my problem with Marques is he had his dropsy spells periodically where his hands turned to bricks. Joe was much more consistent IMO.
Loved me some Joe Horn.
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Old 07-27-2017, 10:15 AM   #26
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Re: Who is the most underrated Saint of all*time?

Originally Posted by Euphoria View Post
Guido Merkins
which is code for: Im a total fan. He was the first answer I thought of.
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Old 07-27-2017, 07:29 PM   #27
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Re: Who is the most underrated Saint of all*time?

Originally Posted by jeanpierre View Post
Joe Horn played for the Saints from 2000-2006 and ranked well, but behind some of those divas...

Code:
                                                                                              
                                                  Game                                    Rece
Rk             Player From   To  Draft  Tm  Lg   G  GS  Tgt Rec  Yds   Y/R TD  Y/G Ctch% Y/Tgt
1          Torry Holt 2000 2006    1-6 RAM NFL 110 101 1092 660 9887 14.98 58 89.9 60.4%  9.05
2    Marvin Harrison* 2000 2006   1-19 CLT NFL 110 110 1101 711 9556 13.44 89 86.9 64.6%  8.68
3       Terrell Owens 2000 2006   3-89 TOT NFL  96  94  975 579 8408 14.52 84 87.6 59.4%  8.62
4          Randy Moss 2000 2006   1-21 TOT NFL 106 105  945 527 7974 15.13 73 75.2 55.8%  8.44
5            Joe Horn 2000 2006  5-135 NOR NFL 102 100  903 523 7622 14.57 50 74.7 57.9%  8.44
6           Rod Smith 2000        2006 DEN NFL 110 109  962 592 7578 12.80 43 68.9 61.5%  7.88
7         Isaac Bruce 2000 2006   2-33 RAM NFL 106 102  832 498 7548 15.16 39 71.2 59.9%  9.07
8       Derrick Mason 2000 2006   4-98 TOT NFL 109 102  867 560 7329 13.09 39 67.2 64.6%  8.45
9          Hines Ward 2000 2006   3-92 PIT NFL 109 108  892 572 7121 12.45 51 65.3 64.1%  7.98
10       Chad Johnson 2001 2006   2-36 CIN NFL  92  79  828 466 6925 14.86 41 75.3 56.3%  8.36
11        Eric Moulds 2000 2006   1-24 TOT NFL 108 107  959 551 6718 12.19 31 62.2 57.5%  7.01
12        Jimmy Smith 2000 2005   2-36 JAX NFL  91  90  835 481 6613 13.75 39 72.7 57.6%  7.92
13   Laveranues Coles 2000 2006   3-78 TOT NFL 109  99  889 506 6599 13.04 31 60.5 56.9%  7.42
14   Keyshawn Johnson 2000 2006    1-1 TOT NFL 105 103  893 509 6463 12.70 33 61.6 57.0%  7.24
15    Muhsin Muhammad 2000 2006   2-43 TOT NFL 103 103  870 486 6446 13.26 38 62.6 55.9%  7.41
16    Darrell Jackson 2000 2006   3-80 SEA NFL  96  89  790 441 6445 14.61 47 67.1 55.8%  8.16
17    Plaxico Burress 2000 2006    1-8 TOT NFL 102  97  794 400 6366 15.92 39 62.4 50.4%  8.02
18       Amani Toomer 2000 2006   2-34 NYG NFL 103  97  810 438 6339 14.47 35 61.5 54.1%  7.83
19   Keenan McCardell 2000 2006 12-326 TOT NFL  99  95  742 469 5908 12.60 35 59.7 63.2%  7.96
20      Donald Driver 2000 2006  7-213 GNB NFL 108  78  723 418 5898 14.11 35 54.6 57.8%  8.16
Provided by Pro-Football-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 7/26/2017.



4× Pro Bowl (2000–2002, 2004)



Cost his team a 15 yard Unsportsmanship Penalty...



This chart of Saints WRs/TEs is ordered based on catch percentage; do note, where Colston (37) ranks in regards to Horn (56) and the company Horn keeps at the bottom of this chart...

Code:
                                                                                                 
                                                     Game                                    Rece
Rk                 Player From   To Draft  Tm  Lg   G  GS  Tgt Rec  Yds   Y/R TD  Y/G Ctch% Y/Tgt
17         Michael Thomas 2016 2016  2-47 NOR NFL  15  12  121  92 1137 12.36  9 75.8 76.0%  9.40
18       Adrian Arrington 2010 2012 7-237 NOR NFL   5   0   12   9  110 12.22  0 22.0 75.0%  9.17
20            Reggie Bush 2006 2010   1-2 NOR NFL  60  41  402 294 2142  7.29 12 35.7 73.1%  5.33
21           Kenny Stills 2013 2014 5-144 NOR NFL  31  17  133  95 1572 16.55  8 50.7 71.4% 11.82
22          John Phillips 2016 2016 6-208 NOR NFL   8   4    7   5   32  6.40  0  4.0 71.4%  4.57
25         Jeremy Shockey 2008 2010  1-14 NOR NFL  38  34  198 139 1460 10.50  6 38.4 70.2%  7.37
26           Willie Snead 2015       2016 NOR NFL  30  13  205 141 1879 13.33  7 62.6 68.8%  9.17
27   Michael Hoomanawanui 2015 2015 5-132 NOR NFL  12   8   16  11   76  6.91  3  6.3 68.8%  4.75
28          Brandin Cooks 2014 2016  1-20 NOR NFL  42  32  315 215 2861 13.31 20 68.1 68.3%  9.08
29           David Thomas 2009 2012  3-86 NOR NFL  48  25  120  81  677  8.36  7 14.1 67.5%  5.64
30              Irv Smith 1993 1997  1-20 NOR NFL  66  55  199 134 1300  9.70  9 19.7 67.3%  6.53
31            Lance Moore 2006       2013 NOR NFL 101  30  518 346 4281 12.37 38 42.4 66.8%  8.26
35             Ben Watson 2013 2015  1-32 NOR NFL  47  31  171 113 1187 10.50 10 25.3 66.1%  6.94
36           Jimmy Graham 2010 2014  3-95 NOR NFL  78  50  595 386 4752 12.31 51 60.9 64.9%  7.99
37        Marques Colston 2006 2015 7-252 NOR NFL 146 106 1099 711 9759 13.73 72 66.8 64.7%  8.88
39        Brandon Coleman 2015       2016 NOR NFL  32   7   87  56  735 13.13  5 23.0 64.4%  8.45
41         Tommylee Lewis 2016       2016 NOR NFL  12   1   11   7   76 10.86  0  6.3 63.6%  6.91
44         Robert Meachem 2008 2014  1-27 NOR NFL  88  32  260 164 2707 16.51 25 30.8 63.1% 10.41
45              Josh Hill 2013       2016 NOR NFL  55  21   82  51  489  9.59  9  8.9 62.2%  5.96
46           Coby Fleener 2016 2016  2-34 NOR NFL  16   8   81  50  631 12.62  3 39.4 61.7%  7.79
56               Joe Horn 2000 2006 5-135 NOR NFL 102 100  903 523 7622 14.57 50 74.7 57.9%  8.44
57         Torrance Small 1992 1996 5-138 NOR NFL  72  16  304 176 2180 12.39 16 30.3 57.9%  7.17
62       Devery Henderson 2004 2012  2-50 NOR NFL 124  76  442 245 4377 17.87 20 35.3 55.4%  9.90
64       Donte Stallworth 2002 2005  1-13 NOR NFL  56  33  359 195 2791 14.31 23 49.8 54.3%  7.77
65          Ernie Conwell 2003 2006  2-59 NOR NFL  41  34  105  57  614 10.77  5 15.0 54.3%  5.85
Provided by Pro-Football-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 7/26/2017.

Maybe everyone remembers Marques Colston's drops because they were infrequent through most of his career and because of his last two seasons, sub-par for him, while playing with injured knee, leg, and ankle; and maybe others like the "MSM" are too busy failing to do their homework and paid too much attention to the Diva Dives and not enough to the quiet storm of production...
Wow, for an opinion piece... uh, OK....I'll be the first to admit my nose is not glued to the record book...and my memory isn't what it used to be apparently I didn't realize he'd made it to the pro bowl I remembered TO getting in once or twice when Joe had better stats and it ticked me off back in the day. That was what I was referring to the diva remark.
Colston over the course of his career maybe was surer of hands but he had his streaks where he couldn't catch anything, maybe not many streaks but more than one, and enough to leave a impression on me. When I think of Joe I can't think of a single game where I thought to myself "wow, he can't catch sh*t today." IMO and your welcome to yours, this is a point where the stats do not tell the full story.
Uh, I did say "stupid" phone stunt didn't I?
Look, I'm really not trying to dump on Colston, in their times both were under appreciated (as are most of our players) habitually by the MSM.
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Old 07-27-2017, 11:13 PM   #28
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Re: Who is the most underrated Saint of all*time?

Safety Tommy Myers... Was the entire defense for years.
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Old 07-27-2017, 11:47 PM   #29
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Re: Who is the most underrated Saint of all*time?

Originally Posted by SaintGnome View Post
I gotta go with Joe Horn. He was putting up better numbers than the diva WR's of his time but never got a pro bowl or any attention at all from the MSM until that stupid phone stunt and then it wasn't exactly good attention. I think Colston to some degree also was underrated but my problem with Marques is he had his dropsy spells periodically where his hands turned to bricks. Joe was much more consistent IMO.
Considering Joe barely got to play w/ Brees, he was so good. He was a north star for the team, especially during the Katrina tragedy.
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