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2017 New Orleans Saints Training Camp

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by ChrisXVI Lattimore is out there at practice and observing so I'm inclined to believe they aren't hiding the severity of his injury. https://twitter.com/jkatzenstein/sta...69622550708224 Unreal, I can't believe the bad luck we have with defensive injuries....

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Old 08-12-2017, 10:12 AM   #771
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Re: 2017 New Orleans Saints Training Camp

Originally Posted by ChrisXVI View Post
Lattimore is out there at practice and observing so I'm inclined to believe they aren't hiding the severity of his injury.

https://twitter.com/jkatzenstein/sta...69622550708224
Unreal, I can't believe the bad luck we have with defensive injuries.
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Old 08-12-2017, 10:25 AM   #772
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Re: 2017 New Orleans Saints Training Camp

Originally Posted by dizzle88 View Post
That formula was used 8 years ago now and Payton has not been able to replicate it since.
I agree with you on this. But since we have evidence that it worked once, that it could come together again.
2013 was a good D, but that's because they were fundamentally sound up front and got to the QB. They didn't get many takeaways.
My point is that the combination of factors that I referenced in a previous post (coaching,scheme,talent, health) came together that season when it did not do so the season before, or the seasons after.

I understand when you say this team was a handful of plays away from a playoff berth, but honestly....isn't that the same excuse we have heard for the past 3-4 years?? It sounds very familiar.
Of course it's familiar because this current iteration of the Saints under Payton are always at the cusp of having a special season if everything falls into place.
It happened in 2006. It happened in 2009 after to lackluster seasons. It happened in 2013. And despite the injury situation last year the defense made incremental improvement under Allen last season. In addition coaching changes with the D-line and LBs are showing promise.

The disappointing truth is, in crunch time, this team has proven it will faulter, and then say a few days later "if only this play, if only that play."
So I presume that you believe that nothing has changed since last season that will change that? That none of the free agents, coaching changes, draft picks, or anything else that has happened since January is going to make this season any different?

The defense was better last year. It went from historically record breaking awful to injury riddled subpar. There's another year in Allen's system with better coaches, new talent, and more experience. And as I keep saying the defense only needs to be average and consistent in order for the team to get over the hump.

Will it be? I don't know yet. However if you really believe that none of the changes could possibly make a difference, I guess the season is lost before it has even started.

SFIAH
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Old 08-12-2017, 10:31 AM   #773
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Re: 2017 New Orleans Saints Training Camp

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL View Post
I agree with you on this. But since we have evidence that it worked once, that it could come together again.


My point is that the combination of factors that I referenced in a previous post (coaching,scheme,talent, health) came together that season when it did not do so the season before, or the seasons after.



Of course it's familiar because this current iteration of the Saints under Payton are always at the cusp of having a special season if everything falls into place.
It happened in 2006. It happened in 2009 after to lackluster seasons. It happened in 2013. And despite the injury situation last year the defense made incremental improvement under Allen last season. In addition coaching changes with the D-line and LBs are showing promise.


So I presume that you believe that nothing has changed since last season that will change that? That none of the free agents, coaching changes, draft picks, or anything else that has happened since January is going to make this season any different?

The defense was better last year. It went from historically record breaking awful to injury riddled subpar. There's another year in Allen's system with better coaches, new talent, and more experience. And as I keep saying the defense only needs to be average and consistent in order for the team to get over the hump.

Will it be? I don't know yet. However if you really believe that none of the changes could possibly make a difference, I guess the season is lost before it has even started.

SFIAH
I'd like to believe things are different, I actually like the coaching changes Payton has made, I just wish we could keep defensive backs healthy for more than a week. That's not Paytons fault though, they are just all made of glass.
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:02 AM   #774
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Re: 2017 New Orleans Saints Training Camp

This defense willl get better, when you factor the new player additions, the coaching improvements, the only thing we will not have changed, which has changed quite regularly, is the defensive coordinator...
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:18 AM   #775
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Re: 2017 New Orleans Saints Training Camp

Originally Posted by dizzle88 View Post
I'd like to believe things are different, I actually like the coaching changes Payton has made, I just wish we could keep defensive backs healthy for more than a week. That's not Paytons fault though, they are just all made of glass.
I'm also wondering if it's just paranoia on the part of the organization now. Considering that lingering issues only seem to get worse once the season starts that if there's even the slightest tweak you pull the player until they are completely healed?

I just wonder how many reps does Lattimore especially and Breaux too need in the preseason to be prepared to play come September or October? Or do you bring them along slowly and let Williams and Crawley carry the load at the beginning of the regular season?

What I do know from last season is that the Saints are going to need and use every defensive back, both corners and safeties, that end up on the final 53. If Lattimore is ready to play after the bye in October and is completely healthy at that point, then it'll be worth him sitting now. Because just like everyone else, he is going to be needed.

SFIAH

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Old 08-12-2017, 12:09 PM   #776
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Re: 2017 New Orleans Saints Training Camp

Cam Jordan with the pick 6 in practice today on a Drew Brees pass batted down by Anzalone. I guess if our DB's can't do it we'll just have Jordan handle it lol.
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:19 PM   #777
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Re: 2017 New Orleans Saints Training Camp

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL View Post
Question: Over the last three years, what percentage of Saints games have started and ended with the listed #1 and #2 DBs on the roster playing the entire game?

You can't build any part of an organization without your expected personnel. I already see the rumblings of that this year.

Under the right circumstances the turnaround can be virtually instantaneous. See the transformation from 2012 to 2013. But it works in both directions. See 2013 to 2014 as an example.

A defense is a blend of scheme, coaching, personnel talent, and health. A good mix of all 4 leads to success. Any single one significantly missing leads to disaster. I'm pretty confident about 2 of the 4: coaching and talent. I'm still trying to understand Allen's scheme and how it's supposed to impact the rhythm of the opposing offenses. And health. That's the joker.

SFIAH
We throttled the Pats at home in 09 with Mike McKENZIE walking in off the street because 3/4 of our backend were injured. I am sorry but the excuses are just that anymore, excuses and wishful thinking
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:26 PM   #778
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Re: 2017 New Orleans Saints Training Camp

Originally Posted by dizzle88 View Post
I'd like to believe things are different, I actually like the coaching changes Payton has made, I just wish we could keep defensive backs healthy for more than a week. That's not Paytons fault though, they are just all made of glass.
Yeah,...why does everyone forget 2011? although we shat the bed in san fran for first 1/2 of the game that was the best team we have ever fielded. I think our d was ranked 20th that year and with that offense, wowsers. Just my opinion but not staying healthy in the back-end year after year starts to become epidemic, and the people picking the players have to be held accountable for that.

Like I have said many times on here, the losing needs to end now. If not SP needs to pound the pavement and patrol a different sideline. It is sad to see people satisfied with mediocrity.

This needs to be the year, playoffs or bust. I can't think of many coaches churning out 7-9 seasons over and over who keep their job. And that is the one ofther part of what you stated dizzle that was overlooked, not just do we have Brees we have the same coach. So while other teams have failed to make the playoffs they didn't sit idly by with the same coach failing year in and year out because a decade ago he produced a super bowl

Fingers crossed this is the year. We certainly have enough talent

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Old 08-12-2017, 12:28 PM   #779
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Re: 2017 New Orleans Saints Training Camp

Originally Posted by jeanpierre View Post
This defense willl get better, when you factor the new player additions, the coaching improvements, the only thing we will not have changed, which has changed quite regularly, is the defensive coordinator...
I think they will too. BTW LOved what I saw out of Teo the other night. Hope he stays healthy because he looked sharp. We have more talent pretty much everywhere. Still worried about the dline, but Kika and Jordan might do enough. I agree they will be and that better get us to the playoffs.
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:31 PM   #780
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Re: 2017 New Orleans Saints Training Camp

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL View Post
I'm also wondering if it's just paranoia on the part of the organization now. Considering that lingering issues only seem to get worse once the season starts that if there's even the slightest tweak you pull the player until they are completely healed?
Well, long season so rather healthy than not. I think the d will be better, but what worries me is Breaux is like china in a bull shop. He is always breaking something lately. Point being it worries me about his health for the entire season.

I actually really like the play from KC and Harris. People can say what they want about Ken but at least he isn't getting blown around and people are running 10 yards free past him. At least he is always near the ball
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