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Payton need to go?

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by The Dude I understand and respect your optimism and agree Minny has one of the top defenses and realize it was going to be a hard game for anyone to win going against them in their new ...

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Old 09-12-2017, 05:41 PM   #91
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Re: Payton need to go?

Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
I understand and respect your optimism and agree Minny has one of the top defenses and realize it was going to be a hard game for anyone to win going against them in their new stadium.
But do you really HAVE to sift through pages and pages of negative posts? Wouldn't it be easier to just ignore them and move along?
No. I have to read everything. If not I would have missed WillSaints81's only intelligent post ever.

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Old 09-12-2017, 05:52 PM   #92
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Re: Payton need to go?

Originally Posted by jeanpierre View Post
Have to respect that
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:56 PM   #93
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Re: Payton need to go?

I don't think sharing your honest opinion is negative. In sports people are very honest. Sports are not like the corporate or academic world. They don't really offer the poop sandwich. You know where you put the poop in the middle and the fluff is on top and bottom to soften the blow that you're eating a poop sandwich. Sports are a tough business. People on this board being honest is just that. Calling it negative isn't really accurate. Some people think one thing and other people think something else. The one thing we have in common is our love for the team.

That's my opinion

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Old 09-12-2017, 06:00 PM   #94
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Re: Payton need to go?

Kenny V had an awful game, it's great he's trying to make it work but he's not exactly good role model for these young guys.

He got caught looking in the backfield on the wide open Diggs TD and completely let him run unaccounted for into the end zone.

He gave TE Rudolph a ton of cushion and reacted late for a TD.

In the first quarter, he could have stopped a Dalvin Cook run for no gain by forcing him out of bounds, yet he jumped over a falling O lineman and Cook ran straight past him for a 13 yard gain.

Remember, at one time we had a chance to get Wade Phillips, Jim Schwartz or Romeo Crennel

We chose Rob Ryan, Payton then hired DA because he felt bad for him, then gave the reigns to his buddy who never disagrees with him.

Payton's time to go.

Your bonehead creator picked a fine chapter to omit from your memory bank....let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear? - Vegeta, DBZ
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Old 09-12-2017, 06:15 PM   #95
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Re: Payton need to go?

Originally Posted by spkb25 View Post
I don't think sharing your honest opinion is negative. In sports people are very honest. Sports are not like the corporate or academic world. They don't really offer the poop sandwich. You know where you put the poop in the middle and the fluff is on top and bottom to soften the blow that you're eating a poop sandwich. Sports are a tough business. People on this board being honest is just that. Calling it negative isn't really accurate. Some people think one thing and other people think something else. The one thing we have in common is our love for the team.

That's my opinion
Please, let's not go through this again. We're on the same team. To me it is negative. Accept that. To you it isn't. I accept that. Expecting another 7-9 after one game is negative in my mind. Not so in yours. No problem.

And I prefer fried gator poboys to poop sandwiches.

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Old 09-12-2017, 06:17 PM   #96
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Re: Payton need to go?

Originally Posted by dizzle88 View Post
Kenny V had an awful game, it's great he's trying to make it work but he's not exactly good role model for these young guys.

He got caught looking in the backfield on the wide open Diggs TD and completely let him run unaccounted for into the end zone.

He gave TE Rudolph a ton of cushion and reacted late for a TD.

In the first quarter, he could have stopped a Dalvin Cook run for no gain by forcing him out of bounds, yet he jumped over a falling O lineman and Cook ran straight past him for a 13 yard gain.

Remember, at one time we had a chance to get Wade Phillips, Jim Schwartz or Romeo Crennel

We chose Rob Ryan, Payton then hired DA because he felt bad for him, then gave the reigns to his buddy who never disagrees with him.

Payton's time to go.
Calm down, Diz. I think you need a Snickers bar.
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Old 09-12-2017, 06:22 PM   #97
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Re: Payton need to go?

What happened to the Saint fan that got lots of playoff appearances, a SB victory after 30 plus years of shame? Oh, they want to fire the coach that accomplished all of it.

Love this stuff because all it take is one shellacking of the Pats and Payton goes from unformed pewter to a refined golden god in less than 7 days.
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Old 09-12-2017, 06:43 PM   #98
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Re: Payton need to go?

Originally Posted by Beastmode View Post
What happened to the Saint fan that got lots of playoff appearances, a SB victory after 30 plus years of shame? Oh, they want to fire the coach that accomplished all of it.

Love this stuff because all it take is one shellacking of the Pats and Payton goes from unformed pewter to a refined golden god in less than 7 days.
Personally I'm not calling for anybody's head, but man we sucked. LOL
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Old 09-12-2017, 07:41 PM   #99
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Re: Payton need to go?

I can't let this go and this is going to get long. Guido don't miss your flight to Vegas while reading this LOL.

If you're a professional sports coach and your actions demonstrate you are careless enough to run a future hall-of-fame player into the ground, it's your time to go. That is why this is my last straw with Payton. When former Lakers coach D'Antoni allowed Kobe to play 45+ minutes night after night after night and Kobe ended up blowing his Achilles, I held D'Antoni solely responsible for being asleep at the wheel and signing off on Kobe's insane usage. Payton's mistake is on par with that gaffe.

I talked to my step-brother, a huge Vikings fan, about AP joining the Saints a few months ago. He said AP had a great chance to succeed in New Orleans because AP has never played with a QB as good as Brees, never played in a more powerful passing game. On paper, with a healthy Brees and receiving core, Peterson would have more consistent running room than he has maybe ever had in his career.

Though AP and the Saints were an odd fit, this was the logical consensus just about everyone - my family, my father, Saints fans, Vikings fans, talking heads, sportswriters - came to. You had to see there was some upside to having a balanced attack and allow the aging stars Brees and AP the chance to take the pressure off each other. Otherwise, why would Saints even entertain signing AP? Brees' passing ability would keep defenders from loading the box and keying on the run. Adrian's presence would slow down the pass rush as they would often have to worry about giving AP a seam and a head of steam running into open field.

Then, everyone in the Saints org was raving about AP's ability in the offseason. Unlike the Vikings, the Saints have 2 quality backs in Ingram and Kamara to spell AP and avoid tiring him out, which was sometimes the Vikings' pitfall. Payton's off-season lip service to the running game finally seemed like it could be legit, because this time it was backed up by an acquisition that indicated they were more serious than before. And we had tools at our disposal to rekindle AP's productivity that the Vikings lacked. While AP's health and age were a risk, I saw some upside.

So keeping all of this mind, the usage of AP last night by Payton and Carmichael is completely indefensible. Every single time AP appeared on the field (except for the goalline rollout pass which was both wrong place wrong time and too little too late) he got handed the ball on garden-variety runs. In stark contrast, Ingram and Kamara got to do it all with plenty of playing time on the field - run, catch, block, etc.

The closest thing I can manufacture to an excuse for Payton/Carmichael is that they just got into the moment and started calling plays, and it happened to turn out that way that AP was running all the time. But I just can't buy that. Not when 1) you've had eons to prepare for this single opening game, 2) AP had additional knowledge and fire in playing his old team and 3) Kamara and Ingram's usage stood in stark contrast to AP's.

You would have to be hard pressed to find any high school or college coach in the entire country, regardless of who their QB or other RB's were, that would even *consider* using AP in the manner that unfolded Monday night. And yet, here we are.

Payton/Carmichael can be erratic and predictable calling the offense. No one's going to always agree with the play calls which sometimes work and backfire, I get that. Football is game of playcall vs playcall and the conjecture and 20/20 hindsight is part of the sport. But the more serious problem is that the Saints scheme has gotten so rote, that defenses can sometime spot a specific personnel and formation on the field and identify with an incredibly high degree of accuracy where the ball is going. These kinds of plays are our drive-killers. They run counter to basic football strategy, which is to do a variety of things out of similar looks. Most any high school football coach understands and uses this concept. This concept was an important element of football before the forward pass even existed, for cripes sake! But Payton doesn't seem like he gets it or wants to get it, frankly. It's like he's coaching a different sport.

So when you consider the transparent playcalling gaffes - and there were multiple in this game as well - AP's misuse, to me, is the final straw. The mistakes go together such that it seems at times Payton really doesn't care what he is telegraphing - and those consequences are massive.

A few hands of poker where you put your cards face up on the table is likely to ruin what could have otherwise been a successful night. So, as far as I am concerned, Payton can go play poker on someone else's dime.
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Old 09-12-2017, 07:49 PM   #100
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Re: Payton need to go?

Originally Posted by neugey View Post
I can't let this go and this is going to get long. Guido don't miss your flight to Vegas while reading this LOL.

If you're a professional sports coach and your actions demonstrate you are careless enough to run a future hall-of-fame player into the ground, it's your time to go. That is why this is my last straw with Payton. When former Lakers coach D'Antoni allowed Kobe to play 45+ minutes night after night after night and Kobe ended up blowing his Achilles, I held D'Antoni solely responsible for being asleep at the wheel and signing off on Kobe's insane usage. Payton's mistake is on par with that gaffe.

I talked to my step-brother, a huge Vikings fan, about AP joining the Saints a few months ago. He said AP had a great chance to succeed in New Orleans because AP has never played with a QB as good as Brees, never played in a more powerful passing game. On paper, with a healthy Brees and receiving core, Peterson would have more consistent running room than he has maybe ever had in his career.

Though AP and the Saints were an odd fit, this was the logical consensus just about everyone - my family, my father, Saints fans, Vikings fans, talking heads, sportswriters - came to. You had to see there was some upside to having a balanced attack and allow the aging stars Brees and AP the chance to take the pressure off each other. Otherwise, why would Saints even entertain signing AP? Brees' passing ability would keep defenders from loading the box and keying on the run. Adrian's presence would slow down the pass rush as they would often have to worry about giving AP a seam and a head of steam running into open field.

Then, everyone in the Saints org was raving about AP's ability in the offseason. Unlike the Vikings, the Saints have 2 quality backs in Ingram and Kamara to spell AP and avoid tiring him out, which was sometimes the Vikings' pitfall. Payton's off-season lip service to the running game finally seemed like it could be legit, because this time it was backed up by an acquisition that indicated they were more serious than before. And we had tools at our disposal to rekindle AP's productivity that the Vikings lacked. While AP's health and age were a risk, I saw some upside.

So keeping all of this mind, the usage of AP last night by Payton and Carmichael is completely indefensible. Every single time AP appeared on the field (except for the goalline rollout pass which was both wrong place wrong time and too little too late) he got handed the ball on garden-variety runs. In stark contrast, Ingram and Kamara got to do it all with plenty of playing time on the field - run, catch, block, etc.

The closest thing I can manufacture to an excuse for Payton/Carmichael is that they just got into the moment and started calling plays, and it happened to turn out that way that AP was running all the time. But I just can't buy that. Not when 1) you've had eons to prepare for this single opening game, 2) AP had additional knowledge and fire in playing his old team and 3) Kamara and Ingram's usage stood in stark contrast to AP's.

You would have to be hard pressed to find any high school or college coach in the entire country, regardless of who their QB or other RB's were, that would even *consider* using AP in the manner that unfolded Monday night. And yet, here we are.

Payton/Carmichael can be erratic and predictable calling the offense. No one's going to always agree with the play calls which sometimes work and backfire, I get that. Football is game of playcall vs playcall and the conjecture and 20/20 hindsight is part of the sport. But the more serious problem is that the Saints scheme has gotten so rote, that defenses can sometime spot a specific personnel and formation on the field and identify with an incredibly high degree of accuracy where the ball is going. These kinds of plays are our drive-killers. They runs counter to basic football strategy, which is to do a variety of things out of similar looks. Most any high school football coach understands and uses this concept. This concept was an important element of football before the forward pass even existed, for cripes sake! But Payton doesn't seem like he gets it or wants to get it, frankly. It's like he's coaching a different sport.

So when you consider the transparent playcalling gaffes - and there were multiple in this game as well - AP's misuse, to me, is the final straw. The mistakes go together such that it seems at times Payton really doesn't care what he is telegraphing - and those consequences are massive.

A few hands of poker where you put your cards face up on the table is likely to ruin what could have otherwise been a successful night. So, as far as I am concerned, Payton can go play poker on someone else's dime.
I'll remember that in Vegas. But, perhaps Payton saw the determination to totally key on Peterson by the defense. Or perhaps he saw it as a tease against more vulnerable defenses ... like every one we face the rest of the year. I don't know. But is is only one game. Oh, and I'll drop $20 on the Saints to win the Super Bowl. That'll finance the next trip.

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