I Just Can't Understand This

nola_swammi · 09-18-2017, 12:30 PM

Just can't understand this. Kikaha and Anthony had exceptional rookie season, now it look that they are being syphone off. Kikaha only had 9 snaps. Provided the only sack from the DL prospective if he was considered a lb Anz did get one also.

AsylumGuido · 09-18-2017, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by spkb25

No, I don't have to look for the positive because I don't have any control over the team or who plays. Told you losing nick and armistead were going to hurt because starters are starters for a reason. Told you boss.Now you are seeing I was right

I never said it wouldn't hurt. I said it will give the newer players valuable playing time. Why can't you understand that? It is called making a positive out of a negative. At no point have I ever said losing Armstead or Fairley or any other player is a good thing.

AsylumGuido · 09-18-2017, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

People tend to bring up third downs a lot, but it's such an obvious statement to say that if we struggle on third down, we're going to struggle in general. Of course you have to convert on third down. But is it just third downs? What are we doing on first and second down to set up more manageable third downs?

That's what people miss when they just make blanket statements about needing to convert on third down. We're just not good enough, right now, and that means we're not getting it done on any down.

I'm tired of the malfunctioning as well, Will. We do have some injuries that aren't helping, but this kind of play is not terribly new, regardless.

We are stalling on VERY manageable third downs. 3rd and three, 3rd and four. Those have been automatic in the past and recently it has been Snead that always got open, and more importantly, made the catch. The Saints led the NFL in 3rd down conversion rate last season with 48.64%. So far this season they are in 23rd place with a 34.78% success rate. That is a huge difference.

Mardigras9 · 09-18-2017, 01:57 PM

Missing Snead has definitely hurt. Ginn looks like he is just trying to cruise into retirement when he actually catches a ball, and that is not often. The LB coverage is the go-to for the other teams, it is pitch and catch, they are terrible. The DB's may not be as bad if the opposing QB's had any kind of pressure on them, which they do not, so who knows. But we have not seen either side of the ball in sync yet, so it is hard to say where the biggest problems are, they appear to be everywhere.
The next 2 games will be the real show. I still think they can even the ship by the bye.

jlaw8920 · 09-18-2017, 02:14 PM

I understand how the secondary could be beaten or out played, due to youth. But what really scares me is how often they looked confused on what their responsibilities for the play are when they are lining up pre-snap. Its like they just got the playbook yesterday.

AsylumGuido · 09-18-2017, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by jlaw8920

I understand how the secondary could be beaten or out played, due to youth. But what really scares me is how often they looked confused on what their responsibilities for the play are when they are lining up pre-snap. Its like they just got the playbook yesterday.

That was because they had not prepared for what the Patriots ran. Romo made the point that the Patriots were running an offense that they hadn't used in almost two decades. That's what makes Belichick so good. He ran an offense that the Saints could not have prepared for. A much more experienced offense may have had more success, but the PATs were showing looks our players had never seen. There is so little preparation time these days under the latest CBA that you cannot cover every possible scenario.

NOLA54 · 09-18-2017, 03:15 PM

When you can't win every game becomes a must win.

hagan714 · 09-18-2017, 04:26 PM

All in all we looked better but the biggest issue for the saints are

Delvin Breaux and Nick Fairley are not on the field and the bench can not cover up their lack of talent.

burningmetal · 09-18-2017, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

We are stalling on VERY manageable third downs. 3rd and three, 3rd and four. Those have been automatic in the past and recently it has been Snead that always got open, and more importantly, made the catch. The Saints led the NFL in 3rd down conversion rate last season with 48.64%. So far this season they are in 23rd place with a 34.78% success rate. That is a huge difference.

You need to have third downs that you can run for. Third and 4 has always been a passing down for this team, and that makes us predictable. But whatever happened to chunk plays, and not having to convert on so many third downs to get down the field?

Bad third down percentage is a product of bad offense. If you are having trouble moving the ball, you will naturally have bad third down rates. Willie Snead is not the savior of this offense on third downs. I don't believe in players being necessary only for certain downs. Find an open receiver and get it to him. If you're an NFL receiver, get open and catch the football.

Again, the very team we just played found a way to do that with players missing. Why? Because they are better coached. They have a better system that takes advantage of mismatches. They know how to make adjustments on the fly. Good teams do these things.

Danno · 09-18-2017, 07:28 PM

We have plenty of talent. Most of our players grade well enough on grading sites to at least be considered decent or better.

We don't play well as a unit.

We fire Assistants with proven track records, hire new assistants with proven track records...same result.

One thing has not changed. Sean Payton.

09-18-2017, 12:30 PM	#41
nola_swammi 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Monroe, La Posts: 2,626	Re: I Just Can't Understand This Just can't understand this. Kikaha and Anthony had exceptional rookie season, now it look that they are being syphone off. Kikaha only had 9 snaps. Provided the only sack from the DL prospective if he was considered a lb Anz did get one also.

09-18-2017, 01:44 PM	#42
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,391	Re: I Just Can't Understand This Originally Posted by spkb25 No, I don't have to look for the positive because I don't have any control over the team or who plays. Told you losing nick and armistead were going to hurt because starters are starters for a reason. Told you boss.Now you are seeing I was right I never said it wouldn't hurt. I said it will give the newer players valuable playing time. Why can't you understand that? It is called making a positive out of a negative. At no point have I ever said losing Armstead or Fairley or any other player is a good thing.

09-18-2017, 01:49 PM	#43
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,391	Re: I Just Can't Understand This Originally Posted by burningmetal People tend to bring up third downs a lot, but it's such an obvious statement to say that if we struggle on third down, we're going to struggle in general. Of course you have to convert on third down. But is it just third downs? What are we doing on first and second down to set up more manageable third downs? That's what people miss when they just make blanket statements about needing to convert on third down. We're just not good enough, right now, and that means we're not getting it done on any down. I'm tired of the malfunctioning as well, Will. We do have some injuries that aren't helping, but this kind of play is not terribly new, regardless. We are stalling on VERY manageable third downs. 3rd and three, 3rd and four. Those have been automatic in the past and recently it has been Snead that always got open, and more importantly, made the catch. The Saints led the NFL in 3rd down conversion rate last season with 48.64%. So far this season they are in 23rd place with a 34.78% success rate. That is a huge difference.

09-18-2017, 01:57 PM	#44
Mardigras9 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Land Mass between LA and AL Posts: 4,375	Re: I Just Can't Understand This Missing Snead has definitely hurt. Ginn looks like he is just trying to cruise into retirement when he actually catches a ball, and that is not often. The LB coverage is the go-to for the other teams, it is pitch and catch, they are terrible. The DB's may not be as bad if the opposing QB's had any kind of pressure on them, which they do not, so who knows. But we have not seen either side of the ball in sync yet, so it is hard to say where the biggest problems are, they appear to be everywhere. The next 2 games will be the real show. I still think they can even the ship by the bye.
	"Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil." - Jerry Garcia

09-18-2017, 02:14 PM	#45
jlaw8920 100th Post Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 123	Re: I Just Can't Understand This I understand how the secondary could be beaten or out played, due to youth. But what really scares me is how often they looked confused on what their responsibilities for the play are when they are lining up pre-snap. Its like they just got the playbook yesterday.
jlaw8920 100th Post Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 123

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09-18-2017, 02:39 PM	#46
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,391	Re: I Just Can't Understand This Originally Posted by jlaw8920 I understand how the secondary could be beaten or out played, due to youth. But what really scares me is how often they looked confused on what their responsibilities for the play are when they are lining up pre-snap. Its like they just got the playbook yesterday. That was because they had not prepared for what the Patriots ran. Romo made the point that the Patriots were running an offense that they hadn't used in almost two decades. That's what makes Belichick so good. He ran an offense that the Saints could not have prepared for. A much more experienced offense may have had more success, but the PATs were showing looks our players had never seen. There is so little preparation time these days under the latest CBA that you cannot cover every possible scenario. Rugby Saint II likes this.

09-18-2017, 03:15 PM	#47
NOLA54 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,701 Blog Entries: 1	Re: I Just Can't Understand This When you can't win every game becomes a must win.

09-18-2017, 04:26 PM	#48
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: I Just Can't Understand This All in all we looked better but the biggest issue for the saints are Delvin Breaux and Nick Fairley are not on the field and the bench can not cover up their lack of talent.

09-18-2017, 07:24 PM	#49
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,905 Blog Entries: 3	Re: I Just Can't Understand This Originally Posted by AsylumGuido We are stalling on VERY manageable third downs. 3rd and three, 3rd and four. Those have been automatic in the past and recently it has been Snead that always got open, and more importantly, made the catch. The Saints led the NFL in 3rd down conversion rate last season with 48.64%. So far this season they are in 23rd place with a 34.78% success rate. That is a huge difference. You need to have third downs that you can run for. Third and 4 has always been a passing down for this team, and that makes us predictable. But whatever happened to chunk plays, and not having to convert on so many third downs to get down the field? Bad third down percentage is a product of bad offense. If you are having trouble moving the ball, you will naturally have bad third down rates. Willie Snead is not the savior of this offense on third downs. I don't believe in players being necessary only for certain downs. Find an open receiver and get it to him. If you're an NFL receiver, get open and catch the football. Again, the very team we just played found a way to do that with players missing. Why? Because they are better coached. They have a better system that takes advantage of mismatches. They know how to make adjustments on the fly. Good teams do these things. Rugby Saint II and CharityMike like this.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

09-18-2017, 07:28 PM	#50
Danno Site Donor 2014 Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,640	Re: I Just Can't Understand This We have plenty of talent. Most of our players grade well enough on grading sites to at least be considered decent or better. We don't play well as a unit. We fire Assistants with proven track records, hire new assistants with proven track records...same result. One thing has not changed. Sean Payton. CharityMike and WhoDatLucky like this.

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