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Sean Payton admits some bad picks have led to bad defense

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by burningmetal Where is the evidence that it's been solid since 2015? We have Lattimore... Who else is showing up on that side of the ball, in any draft we've had recently? Rankins was at least a good ...

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Old 09-22-2017, 08:03 PM   #11
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Re: Sean Payton admits some bad picks have led to bad defense

Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
Where is the evidence that it's been solid since 2015? We have Lattimore... Who else is showing up on that side of the ball, in any draft we've had recently? Rankins was at least a good pick, on paper, but he isn't showing anything right now. I know he's young, but until I see anyone other than Lattimore showing up, I'm not going to declare these drafts anything close to a success.
You are entitled to your opinion, even if its wrong.
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Old 09-22-2017, 08:18 PM   #12
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Re: Sean Payton admits some bad picks have led to bad defense

Originally Posted by Danno View Post
You are entitled to your opinion, even if its wrong.
Yes, just as you are entitled to your opinion, but please show me an example of where I am wrong? It's nothing personal, it's just a matter of fact right now. No one else but Lattimore is getting anything done on that side of the ball (other than Jordan, who doesn't fit into the current discussion). Others could come along later, but as of now, they haven't.
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Old 09-22-2017, 10:29 PM   #13
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vSean Payton admits some bad picks have led to bad defense

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/m/8b3a2...-some-bad.html
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Old 09-22-2017, 10:52 PM   #14
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Re: vSean Payton admits some bad picks have led to bad defense

To slow bro

http://blackandgold.com/saints/84366...d-defense.html (Sean Payton admits some bad picks have led to bad defense)
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:50 PM   #15
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Re: Sean Payton admits some bad picks have led to bad defense

Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
Yes, just as you are entitled to your opinion, but please show me an example of where I am wrong? It's nothing personal, it's just a matter of fact right now. No one else but Lattimore is getting anything done on that side of the ball (other than Jordan, who doesn't fit into the current discussion). Others could come along later, but as of now, they haven't.
Well, there's been...

2015
P.J. Williams - Starting Cornerback. Impressed in camps, could be our best CB. Leading the team in tackles up to this point.
Tyler Davison - Rotational Defensive Tackle. Hasn't overwhelmed anyone but has shown flashes.
Hau'oli Kikaha - Rotational Edge Defender. Impressed in his rookie season with 4 sacks, 4 forced fumbles and 2 passes defended. 1 sack in his one game this season

2016
Von Bell - Third Safety. Hard hitting free safety that maybe better at strong safety. Used in three safety sets.
David Onymata - Rotational Nose Tackle. Listed on the roster as a nose tackle but can play several spots on the Dline.
Sheldon Rankins - Defensive Tackle. Put up respectable numbers his rookie season.

2017
Marshon Lattimore - Starting CB. Starting as a rookie. He's been very good in coverage so far.
Marcus Williams - Starting Free Safety. Also starting as a rookie. By all accounts, he has excellent instincts.
Alex Anzalone - Starting weak side linebacker. Physically gifted. 8 tackles, 1 sack and 1 pass defended in his first two games.

Those are the guys playing on defense right now. There's also a couple of guys with potential like Hendrickson and Muhammad. And some undrafted free agents.

That's a whole lotta guys to just write off.
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Old 09-23-2017, 12:11 AM   #16
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Re: Sean Payton admits some bad picks have led to bad defense

Like smokey said, And WE KNOW THIS MAN!. From the movie FRIDAYS, Chris Tucker. If you didn't know, now you know.
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Old 09-23-2017, 12:12 AM   #17
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Re: vSean Payton admits some bad picks have led to bad defense

Yup!!! LOL
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Old 09-23-2017, 05:31 AM   #18
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Re: Sean Payton admits some bad picks have led to bad defense

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint View Post
Well, there's been...

2015
P.J. Williams - Starting Cornerback. Impressed in camps, could be our best CB. Leading the team in tackles up to this point.
Tyler Davison - Rotational Defensive Tackle. Hasn't overwhelmed anyone but has shown flashes.
Hau'oli Kikaha - Rotational Edge Defender. Impressed in his rookie season with 4 sacks, 4 forced fumbles and 2 passes defended. 1 sack in his one game this season

2016
Von Bell - Third Safety. Hard hitting free safety that maybe better at strong safety. Used in three safety sets.
David Onymata - Rotational Nose Tackle. Listed on the roster as a nose tackle but can play several spots on the Dline.
Sheldon Rankins - Defensive Tackle. Put up respectable numbers his rookie season.

2017
Marshon Lattimore - Starting CB. Starting as a rookie. He's been very good in coverage so far.
Marcus Williams - Starting Free Safety. Also starting as a rookie. By all accounts, he has excellent instincts.
Alex Anzalone - Starting weak side linebacker. Physically gifted. 8 tackles, 1 sack and 1 pass defended in his first two games.

Those are the guys playing on defense right now. There's also a couple of guys with potential like Hendrickson and Muhammad. And some undrafted free agents.

That's a whole lotta guys to just write off.
So you just named all of the guys who have been drafted, but couldn't give me one legitimate reason to say that any of them have, or will pan out? Aside from Lattimore, who I already mentioned as the lone real bright spot.

No offense to you, but it doesn't seem like you read my posts very thoroughly. I didn't write off a single player. I specifically said that some could come along later, but they haven't as of now. This year's rookie class gets a temporary pass because they are still rookies. The others are a different story.

Kikaha is one dimensional and frankly doesn't provide much in that one area. Yeah, he got a sack the other day, and what else? Where's the consistent pressure? Davison has shown flashes... Ok. Could I have some production? PJ Williams leads us in tackles... And who is he covering these days? You're using his tackles as a barometer for success? Isn't it alarming that a corner leads the team in tackles? Rankins barely played enough to put up solid numbers as a rookie. But what is he doing now? He's got time to put it together, but right now, he's nowhere to be seen. This team has not developed a legitimate DT in this millennium.

And instead of considering the fact that we have a lot of young players starting on defense as a sign that we've drafted well, could it be, instead, that this is actually a serious problem and a big reason why our defense is so bad? What has Vonn Bell shown? And if he's in the wrong scheme, then why draft him?

All of these excuses are like plugging holes in a sinking ship with your fingers. At some point, it's time to accept reality and get off the ship (no, I don't mean stop being a fan, I mean it's time for people to stop trying to defend these guys). Anzalone and Williams look like rookies. They have their qualities, but nothing is standing out. As I said, the rookies get a pass for this season.
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If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.
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Old 09-23-2017, 07:01 AM   #19
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Re: Sean Payton admits some bad picks have led to bad defense

2015
P.J. Williams - Can he stay healthy? Gun shy? Talent is there
Tyler Davison - Solid depth but replaceable
Hau'oli Kikaha - Can he stay healthy? Talent is there to be a pass rush specialist

2016
Von Bell - Smaller version of Kenny so far?
David Onymata - the next gem in the rough?
Sheldon Rankins - he needs a complementary NT?

2017
Marshon Lattimore - Can he stay healthy? Talent is there
Marcus Williams - Talent appears to be there but he needs a true SS
Alex Anzalone - Can he stay healthy? Talent is there
Hendrickson - Now he is an injury issue?
Muhammad - the next gem in the rough?

Now in DA defense he has done a great job raiding teams of players that were backups to piece together starting units. 2017 was LB. This is a great Greg Williams trait he picked up on. Talent that does not kill your cap. But it takes time to build a team this way.

I am hoping the saints get the complementary pieces to make picks work. The saints have not done a great job of this. A true SS is still on my list as is a space eating NT. Then we can better judge some of these picks better.

Injuries are killing the saints yet again

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Last edited by hagan714; 09-23-2017 at 10:02 AM..
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Old 09-23-2017, 12:39 PM   #20
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Re: Sean Payton admits some bad picks have led to bad defense

Payton, Brian Billick, Mike Shanahan and John Gruden all shop at the same "Washed Up Super Bowl Winning Coach" Wal-Mart! It's an exclusive store!!!
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