The Run vs Pass?

BreesFN9 · 04-10-2005, 02:34 PM

If you want to get into the playoffs and even think about winning a Superbowl, run the football. Running game and defense wins championships.

I\'ve heard that cliche before but when was the last time a Superbowl was won 0-0? Points win Sperbowls. Not trying to start anything because I believe in the run game, believe me! I\'m just trying to state what THIS particular team is BEST suited to do, not argue overall team formulas.

Again NO disrespect to anyone intended.

MatthewT · 04-10-2005, 03:11 PM

The Saints should set a goal of 40 runs per game. If they can achieve this goal, they should go very deep into the playoffs, and maybe a superbowl. The talent at WR should keep opposing defenses from stacking 8 and 9 in the box. If opposing defenses do go 8 or 9 in the box, then bombs away. Opposing teams will get killed trying to single cover the Saints WR\'s.

papz · 04-10-2005, 05:11 PM

In other words, we should run the ball more to set up play action. We have a great big nasty o-line up front and we are perfectly suited to pound the ball 40 times a game. I rather us put our teams offensive success in Deuce\'s hands to eliminate the blunders in which AB consistently tends to do. By making them put 8 men in the box most of the game, AB will be able to make better decisions because it will leave their corners in 1 vs 1 situations with our extremely fast receivers. But it\'s like any of this is already not understood. Run, run, and more running. Then playaction to Horn down the field or a quick slant to Stallworth

and it\'s going to be a td!

LordOfEntropy · 04-10-2005, 07:12 PM

I think it\'ll depend on whether or not we\'re 14 points down after the first quarter every game.

I\'d prefer to see more running myself, but if the D doesn\'t improve (and improve a lot), then we might be trapped in the same old hurry-up-and-score-now offense we saw most of last season.

The D\'s got to improve. Then I\'d be happy to see Deuce get forty carries.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 04-10-2005, 08:31 PM

Run, run, run. When that dosen\'t work anymore, then you pass.

You sound very much like my brother. We argue this point all the time.

If you make yourself one dimensional, you are playing into the opposition\'s hands.

A balanced offense that both runs and passes well are the most effective.

If you run, run, run then the defense will simply bring 8, 9, or more into the box.

If you cannot (or do not) pass out of those situations, you\'re going to be hosed.

Ideally you want to run when the defense thinks that you are passing a vice versa.

Run oriented is fine. But running all the time is bad news.

SFIAH

SaintFanInATLHELL · 04-10-2005, 08:42 PM

If you want to get into the playoffs and even think about winning a Superbowl, run the football. Running game and defense wins championships.

I\'ve heard that cliche before but when was the last time a Superbowl was won 0-0? Points win Sperbowls. Not trying to start anything because I believe in the run game, believe me! I\'m just trying to state what THIS particular team is BEST suited to do, not argue overall team formulas.

Again NO disrespect to anyone intended.

Absolutely none taken.

But the point is so important that it\'s my signature now.

Championship teams always have great defense.

Championship teams usually can run the ball.

Championship teams are rarely so one dimensional on offense that the other facet of their game is completely ineffective. The 1999 Rams actually could run the ball. The 2000 Ravens use Dilfer to pass effectively enough that Lewis could continue to run the ball.

SFIAH

SaintFanInATLHELL · 04-10-2005, 08:44 PM

The Saints should set a goal of 40 runs per game. If they can achieve this goal, they should go very deep into the playoffs, and maybe a superbowl. The talent at WR should keep opposing defenses from stacking 8 and 9 in the box. If opposing defenses do go 8 or 9 in the box, then bombs away. Opposing teams will get killed trying to single cover the Saints WR\'s.

Let\'s take the premier example of this type of team: The Indianapolis Colts.

40 points per game. Check.
Deep into the playoffs. Yes.
Talent at WR.
Opposing teams getting killed trying to cover wideouts. Yup.

Final result? They fall short.

If you wonder why... Read the signature.

SFIAH

FireVenturi · 04-10-2005, 11:50 PM

SFIAH....i agree with you 200%. If you have a top 5 D and a decent O, you will go far in this league!!!!

SaintFanInATLHELL · 04-11-2005, 06:35 AM

SFIAH....i agree with you 200%. If you have a top 5 D and a decent O, you will go far in this league!!!!

Thanks, Whodat also pointed out...

If running the ball means being predictable and running over the guard for a year or two twice a series and then forcing Brooks into a 3rd and 7, then I don\'t like it at all.

That\'s also tied to the defense. Teams that are primarily run oriented often have defenses that weather situations like that. So they just keep pounding and pounding the run until the opposition wilts.

But you can\'t do that if your defense is going to give up a bunch of yards, time and points when they\'re on the field.

The last 2 years the Saints have been very predictable. Try to establish the run game in the first quarter, then by the time they are down 10/14/20 points, start slinging it all over the place. Which BTW a lot of the time was successful.

You can really only afford to run the ball when the score is close or when you are leading. It shortens the game.

But run oriented offenses don\'t work well when you\'re way behind. And a poor defense often puts you way behind.

SFIAH

BreesFN9 · 04-11-2005, 08:06 AM

The last 2 years the Saints have been very predictable. Try to establish the run game in the first quarter, then by the time they are down 10/14/20 points, start slinging it all over the place. Which BTW a lot of the time was successful.

That was a great point, and the heart of what I was getting at. Well said. That is exactly the point where I don\'t want to get again. Maybe we can still run 40 times per game, but do it in the late stages when we\'re actually up. If your having success\" slingin it all over the place\" I say....SLING AWAY until that fails......Then run.

04-10-2005, 02:34 PM	#11
BreesFN9 500th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Posts: 596	The Run vs Pass? If you want to get into the playoffs and even think about winning a Superbowl, run the football. Running game and defense wins championships. I\'ve heard that cliche before but when was the last time a Superbowl was won 0-0? Points win Sperbowls. Not trying to start anything because I believe in the run game, believe me! I\'m just trying to state what THIS particular team is BEST suited to do, not argue overall team formulas. Again NO disrespect to anyone intended.

04-10-2005, 03:11 PM	#12
MatthewT 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,705	The Run vs Pass? The Saints should set a goal of 40 runs per game. If they can achieve this goal, they should go very deep into the playoffs, and maybe a superbowl. The talent at WR should keep opposing defenses from stacking 8 and 9 in the box. If opposing defenses do go 8 or 9 in the box, then bombs away. Opposing teams will get killed trying to single cover the Saints WR\'s.

04-10-2005, 05:11 PM	#13
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,682	The Run vs Pass? In other words, we should run the ball more to set up play action. We have a great big nasty o-line up front and we are perfectly suited to pound the ball 40 times a game. I rather us put our teams offensive success in Deuce\'s hands to eliminate the blunders in which AB consistently tends to do. By making them put 8 men in the box most of the game, AB will be able to make better decisions because it will leave their corners in 1 vs 1 situations with our extremely fast receivers. But it\'s like any of this is already not understood. Run, run, and more running. Then playaction to Horn down the field or a quick slant to Stallworth and it\'s going to be a td!
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

04-10-2005, 07:12 PM	#14
LordOfEntropy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 1,838	The Run vs Pass? I think it\'ll depend on whether or not we\'re 14 points down after the first quarter every game. I\'d prefer to see more running myself, but if the D doesn\'t improve (and improve a lot), then we might be trapped in the same old hurry-up-and-score-now offense we saw most of last season. The D\'s got to improve. Then I\'d be happy to see Deuce get forty carries.

04-10-2005, 08:31 PM	#15
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,647	The Run vs Pass? Run, run, run. When that dosen\'t work anymore, then you pass. You sound very much like my brother. We argue this point all the time. If you make yourself one dimensional, you are playing into the opposition\'s hands. A balanced offense that both runs and passes well are the most effective. If you run, run, run then the defense will simply bring 8, 9, or more into the box. If you cannot (or do not) pass out of those situations, you\'re going to be hosed. Ideally you want to run when the defense thinks that you are passing a vice versa. Run oriented is fine. But running all the time is bad news. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

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04-10-2005, 08:42 PM	#16
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,647	The Run vs Pass? If you want to get into the playoffs and even think about winning a Superbowl, run the football. Running game and defense wins championships. I\'ve heard that cliche before but when was the last time a Superbowl was won 0-0? Points win Sperbowls. Not trying to start anything because I believe in the run game, believe me! I\'m just trying to state what THIS particular team is BEST suited to do, not argue overall team formulas. Again NO disrespect to anyone intended. Absolutely none taken. But the point is so important that it\'s my signature now. Championship teams always have great defense. Championship teams usually can run the ball. Championship teams are rarely so one dimensional on offense that the other facet of their game is completely ineffective. The 1999 Rams actually could run the ball. The 2000 Ravens use Dilfer to pass effectively enough that Lewis could continue to run the ball. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

04-10-2005, 08:44 PM	#17
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,647	The Run vs Pass? The Saints should set a goal of 40 runs per game. If they can achieve this goal, they should go very deep into the playoffs, and maybe a superbowl. The talent at WR should keep opposing defenses from stacking 8 and 9 in the box. If opposing defenses do go 8 or 9 in the box, then bombs away. Opposing teams will get killed trying to single cover the Saints WR\'s. Let\'s take the premier example of this type of team: The Indianapolis Colts. 40 points per game. Check. Deep into the playoffs. Yes. Talent at WR. Opposing teams getting killed trying to cover wideouts. Yup. Final result? They fall short. If you wonder why... Read the signature. SFIAH

04-10-2005, 11:50 PM	#18
FireVenturi Cold as Ice! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Da Big Easy Posts: 2,978	The Run vs Pass? SFIAH....i agree with you 200%. If you have a top 5 D and a decent O, you will go far in this league!!!!

04-11-2005, 06:35 AM	#19
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,647	The Run vs Pass? SFIAH....i agree with you 200%. If you have a top 5 D and a decent O, you will go far in this league!!!! Thanks, Whodat also pointed out... If running the ball means being predictable and running over the guard for a year or two twice a series and then forcing Brooks into a 3rd and 7, then I don\'t like it at all. That\'s also tied to the defense. Teams that are primarily run oriented often have defenses that weather situations like that. So they just keep pounding and pounding the run until the opposition wilts. But you can\'t do that if your defense is going to give up a bunch of yards, time and points when they\'re on the field. The last 2 years the Saints have been very predictable. Try to establish the run game in the first quarter, then by the time they are down 10/14/20 points, start slinging it all over the place. Which BTW a lot of the time was successful. You can really only afford to run the ball when the score is close or when you are leading. It shortens the game. But run oriented offenses don\'t work well when you\'re way behind. And a poor defense often puts you way behind. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

04-11-2005, 08:06 AM	#20
BreesFN9 500th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Posts: 596	The Run vs Pass? The last 2 years the Saints have been very predictable. Try to establish the run game in the first quarter, then by the time they are down 10/14/20 points, start slinging it all over the place. Which BTW a lot of the time was successful. That was a great point, and the heart of what I was getting at. Well said. That is exactly the point where I don\'t want to get again. Maybe we can still run 40 times per game, but do it in the late stages when we\'re actually up. If your having success\" slingin it all over the place\" I say....SLING AWAY until that fails......Then run.