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oakland ups ante for howard

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Yes Scotty but initially TO was gonna go to the Ravens for a second until he was stolen, as you very aptly put it. So is Howard still then more vaulable than TO? The initial trade was for a second. ...

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Old 04-15-2005, 11:18 AM   #31
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oakland ups ante for howard

Yes Scotty but initially TO was gonna go to the Ravens for a second until he was stolen, as you very aptly put it. So is Howard still then more vaulable than TO? The initial trade was for a second.

Also, on Edge and Shaun, it maybe unprecedented, but vet players value as opposed to picks has diminished greatly. Like I said, look at what Sharper and Surtain were going for. These are pro bowlers. No matter how much we say he is pro bowl caliber, he hasn\'t been, and he has a slight injury history. Based on these factors there is no way we will get a first for him. A high second will aloow us to address a need position. How do we know Howard won\'t be out for more games this year should we keep him? Isn\'t that as much a crap shoot given he has been hurt the past two years?

And I don\'t disagree with your second and compensation notion, just we aren\'t gonna get it. SO a high second seems pretty good to me on that front, considering the ramifications were we to have to keep him.
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Old 04-15-2005, 04:38 PM   #32
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oakland ups ante for howard

This is one of those rare times when I agree with WhoDat.

Howard isn\'t worth a 1st round draft pick. But a player-for-player trade is what needs to happen.

If we get a 2nd for Darren Howard then chances are we come out on the short end of the stick.

I\'d just as soon hold on to Howard for one more year.

2nd round picks are just too risky. Regardless of what 2nd round gems MIGHT be out there.

I know what we have in Darren Howard. And if the team can make it work \"cap wise\" ... then I think Howard can be a major contributor for us THIS year.

Hopefully we will get a \"player\" in return of Howard. That\'s the ideal situation.

[Edited on 15/4/2005 by GumboBC]
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Old 04-15-2005, 05:41 PM   #33
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oakland ups ante for howard

If we keep Howard, we will have roughly 1 mil in cap space. Conventional wisdom says you need close to 4 mil just to sign your rookies.

We literally cannot afford to keep Howard.

Why do I feel like a broken record?

I agree that we\'d need to get a 1st rounder to keep from getting screwed on the deal, but we\'re going to get screwed because of our cap position either way. I really like the idea of trading for a player - but we\'d have to trade for someone cheaper than Howard (considerably cheaper).
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Old 04-15-2005, 05:51 PM   #34
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oakland ups ante for howard

If we keep Howard, we will have roughly 1 mil in cap space. Conventional wisdom says you need close to 4 mil just to sign your rookies.

We literally cannot afford to keep Howard.

Why do I feel like a broken record?

I agree that we\'d need to get a 1st rounder to keep from getting screwed on the deal, but we\'re going to get screwed because of our cap position either way. I really like the idea of trading for a player - but we\'d have to trade for someone cheaper than Howard (considerably cheaper).
I\'m not sure but isn\'t there a separate pool for rookie signings? I read that somewhere.
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Old 04-15-2005, 05:52 PM   #35
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oakland ups ante for howard

JKool --

One thing I know about the salary cap is that things can be made to work in the short-term.

I think the Saints can rearrange some stuff and hold on to Howard for ONE more year and we\'ll be fine.

At least other teams have done something simular.
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Old 04-15-2005, 06:09 PM   #36
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oakland ups ante for howard

if we gte the number 38 keep it and use our draft picks. no need to move up this year
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Old 04-15-2005, 06:09 PM   #37
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oakland ups ante for howard

But using that same logic Gum, why wouldn\'t the Saints trade Howard, work those same deals, and restructure all the contracts they need to restructure? Is it better to have one happy player at the franchise number or 3 or 4 happy players cause when you traded him, they got what they have been waiting for? And LeCharles nor Deuce have raised a stink about it. Those are the guys you have to take care of. Not saying Howard has raised a stink, but he is expendable.
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Old 04-15-2005, 06:19 PM   #38
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oakland ups ante for howard

But using that same logic Gum, why wouldn\'t the Saints trade Howard, work those same deals, and restructure all the contracts they need to restructure? Is it better to have one happy player at the franchise number or 3 or 4 happy players cause when you traded him, they got what they have been waiting for? And LeCharles nor Deuce have raised a stink about it. Those are the guys you have to take care of. Not saying Howard has raised a stink, but he is expendable.
As far as I know ... Deuce and Le Charles are under contract. I could care less if they have to wait. If they want to b*itch, then let \'em b*itch.

Don\'t get me wrong ... I want to trade Darrent Howard. Very badly, too.

But not for a 2nd. Not this year anyway.

Darren Howard, if he\'s on the team, will contribute more THIS year than some 2nd round draft pick.

That\'s my take anyway.
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Old 04-15-2005, 06:35 PM   #39
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oakland ups ante for howard

Darren Howard, if he\'s on the team, will contribute more THIS year than some 2nd round draft pick.

Howard would probably be more productive than anyone we would pick in the 2nd this year. However, his presence does not allow Will Smith to get on the field and show what hes all about. Maybe this analogy is a stretch. We had Ricky Williams and we drafted Deuce. At the time many were shocked, some were pissed. I felt the same way last year when we drafted Smith. However, eventually we had to send Ricky elsewhere to make room for Deuce to get on the field. That is the problem with drafting by the BPA scenario. If you draft at a position that is not a need then it gets crowded. Howard would be more productive than anyone we could get in the 2nd round this year, but he prevents Will Smith from getting on the field and he prevents us from filling a need elsewhere(assuming the trade happened). Another stretch for an analaogy involves the RB situation in Minnesota. Michael Bennett year in, year out is the starter. However, he takes carries from Onterrio Smith, a yonger player who needs to be on the field to achieve his potential. For them, trading Michael Bennett would allow Smith to get on the field, free up cap room, and allow them to draft at another position that would fill a need even though that player might not be as productive as Bennett would be. Thus, I say if the trade can happen, then make it happen.
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Old 04-15-2005, 06:41 PM   #40
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oakland ups ante for howard

BRSaintsFan --

I\'m going to have to take expecption to your agruement.

First -- Will Smith is gonna see much more playing time than what Deuce did when Ricky Williams was here.

Second - Will Smith and Darren Howard both saw a good deal of playing time last season. Darren Howard 11-sacks. Will Smith 8-sacks and 2 forced fumbles.

Third -- Darren Howard plays DT in obvious passing situations.

Fourth -- If Will Smith struggles or gets hurt (God forbid) then Howard suddenly becomes very valuable.

Taking EVERYTHING into consideration ... I would rather keep Howard than to trade him for a 2nd this year.

Besides freeing up cap space ... I really don\'t see that much value in a 2nd.
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