Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

I've always valued what Kirwan had to say. Looks like Mr. Kiwan doesn't think too much of the LBs after Derrick Johnson.

I am dead-set against taking any LB in the draft with our first pick. Unless it's Derrick Jonhson.

Fogetaboutit!!

Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

1st round LB\'s I\'d take (if we stay at 16).
1. Derrick Johnson
2. Thomas Davis
3. Shawn Merriman (if he was BPA)
4. Darryl Blackstock
5. Demarcus Ware (if he was BPA)

LB\'s I\'d gladly take in the 2nd round (at 40)
1. Ruud (I\'d wet me-self)
2. Burnett
3. Crowder
4. Thurman
5. Morrison
6. Boley (But I\'m iffy on him)

3rd rounders
Too many to mention all.
I do like what I hear about Adam Seward (UNLV), Lance Mitchell (OU) and Rian Wallace (Temple). They be OK with me in the 3rd among a bunch of others.

Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

Danno -- Here\'s the rest of the article that I got the quote from.

It appears to me that any LB after Derrick Johnson would be a reach in the FIRST round and you could probably get one with as much talent in the 2nd round.

Point me in the right direction, Danno. I really don\'t know.

Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

I read the same articles you do. I don\'t know anything special. I do know our LB unit is the weak link on this team and addressing it is absolutely essential. I say lets take two.

Some draft expert on ESPN (Mike and Mike I think) pointed out that every year or so people claim this year is a weak draft for this position or that position, and time proves them wrong over and over again.

There are a ton of \"quality\" LB\'s to be had in the 2nd/3rd round. Many will become excellent players in this league. If we draft two we just doubled our chances of landing one of them. I\'m hearing various rumblings about DJ not being so hot either. Who knows?

Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

Since the draft is next weekend .. I thought I\'d start doing my homework. I\'ve pretty much avoided all of the draft threads and haven\'t read too many articles either.

After reading the article by Pat Kirwan (who I respect as much as anyone) I don\'t think we should select LB in round 1.

There\'s \"value\" and then there\'s \"need\". We need quality players. No use in reaching with the 16th pick. We have many other needs besides LB. Like OT. Or even TE. Or safety.

I\'ll take the safe bet before reaching for a LB.

My 2-cents.

Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

Gumbo, I agree with you. Danno covered all the LBs that might warrant first round grades. Merriman I dont think will be around when we pick. Ware is too much of a tweener for my liking. I think Blackstock will fall to possibly the second. Im OK with Davis because if he doesnt pan out at LB, he could be Jay Bellamy\'s replacement at SS. But other than that I would have to agree. I would reach for Johnson, take Merriman if he fell to us(I think his athletic ability will allow him to play in the 4-3), and maybe take the chance on Davis. I say wait around and grab Burnett or Rudd later on. One week and we\'ll find out.

Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

I have no idea how anyonne can say that T Davis is a reach in the first??????

Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

Alex Smith is the pick in the first , if he drops grab him ..... ;)

Crowder - trade up and nail him early second if he is still on the board , he knows how to open a can of whoop ass ....

• ILB Channing Crowder (Florida)
Vital statistics: 6 foot 2¼, 245 pounds, 4.67 in the 40.
Numbers game: Played mostly at tailback in high school and delayed enrollment at Florida while he rehabilitated a knee injury. Played in 20 games and started 17 of them, recording 179 tackles, 13½ tackles for loss, four sacks, one pressure, two forced fumbles, three recoveries and an interception. Voted a team captain as a sophomore. Was an all-SEC choice in 2004. Was twice suspended, one game on each occasion, for scrapes with the law.
Upside: Has an undeniable swagger to him. Plays with a sense of urgency. Vocal on the field and just a naturally intense defender. Cuts through the traffic to get to the ball and, when he arrives, is an explosive hitter. Tries to de-cleat the ball carrier every chance he gets. Fancies himself an intimidator and, at times, certainly fills the role. Sheds nicely, really uses his hands well, strong enough to slap blockers away. Makes plays outside the box and can get out on the edge. Has some rush ability and times his blitzes well.
Downside: Not as fluid as you want, especially through the hips, and falls into the habit of not breaking down into a textbook football position. Sometimes allows his emotions to take over and will play out of control and with a lack of discipline. Got away with some freelancing in college that won\'t cut it at the next level. Has had knee problems and some off-field issues that could be a factor.
The dish: Teams are looking hard at his character and examining some of the off-field incidents in which he was involved, but seem almost as concerned with his knees. Might still sneak into the bottom of the first round, depending on individual teams, but could just as easily slip into the third round.

Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

I\'m glad I\'m not alone on the Crowder bit. He\'s a beast, and the only other LB I\'ve seen extensively besides DJ that I would be delighted for the Saints to pick. The guy is intense and would help light a fire under the D\'s azz.

[Edited on 16/4/2005 by GoldenTomb]

Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

The draft is fine, when lookin to merely upgrade or build depth. When it comes to a glaring need, I prefer a proven FA. Too many rookies never pan out. Haz claimed no LBs were available, but I was dissapointed to see Spikes & others flee their squads. I didn\'t even hear of us inquiring about Spikes. He went to the Pro Bowl.

Besides DJ, I don\'t see any LB that will help Haz keep his job. I\'m not sure this team can handle another possible suspect character like Crowder. We have enough knuckle heads.

I admire how the Vikes went after their needs in the secondary, while still having two #1s. We\'ve been needing LBs for far too long.

Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

Different teams have to operate differently. The fact of the matter is that New Orleans has a very hard time attracting proven vets to come here and play at the same price that they would go to a proven winner. You say you would prefer a proven vet. Well a proven vet would prefer a proven winner, which we aren\'t. Because of this, we have to build primarily through the draft. You saw how Antonio Pierce just blew us off a month and a half ago.

The way that this team gets better is through the draft. It takes a lot more FO savvy to build a team through the draft. A top notch player is wooed by either a competent FO with a well built team, or a lot of money. That\'s the reality.

A team can do very well in the draft, when they make informed, well thought out selections. A perfect example is Detroit\'s draft last year.

[Edited on 16/4/2005 by GoldenTomb]

Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

Spikes went from Cinn to Buffalo. How high could his standards have been? I do agree that a lot of FAs diss us, but the Giants and Cards are getting players.

Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

Buffalo is somewhat of a storied franchise, having gone to the Super Bowl those 4 straight years. People still consider them a highly legit team, and they have a huge following. The Giants play in the largest market in the NFL, which wooed Eli Manning in an unprecedented pre-draft ordeal. The Giants also went to the Super Bowl in the \'00-\'01 season. I would say we are on the prestige level of the Cards, and I don\'t know anyone impressive that they\'ve attracted in the past few years.

We will only start attracting high caliber players when we can string together more than one good season. And that doesn\'t mean going 8-8 or 9-7 and almost making the playoffs. That means going 13-3 and 10-6 in consecutive seasons, something like that. I gotta be honest, I wouldn\'t want to come here if I was an NFL player.

Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

These players were still riding big wheels when Bills made their SB runs. I don\'t remember their last winning season, and the Saints have just as big a following. I don\'t see anyone flocking to the Niners, despite their fabled past.

The Cards have signed some real help, and are now talking to Henry. Denny is just warming up. They have a very high pick, also. They already have deadly WRs & a nice D. Warner will help groom a new QB .

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...v=ap&type=lgns


Mostly every player who leaves here bad mouths us in the press. Benson needs to look at that, when deciding if he should usher in a new regime. Turdly tried to blow us up. Now, the word arund the league is that Haz starts and sticks with players he likes, and playing time isn\'t based on merit. Things have to change from the FO.

Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

I was just starting high school when the Bills ended their run. That is the time those FA were in high school and starting college. Think that maybe teams in their hay-day in that time period(i.e. Buffalo, Dallas, San Fran) still can attract top FAs. San Fran hasn\'t been able to because they\'ve JUST emerged from salary cap hell.

Cards are doing a lot better but if you\'ve noticed, their wide outs all came from the draft, the past three years at that. I think Karlos Dansby will turn out to be a solid, servicable player, if nothing else. It makes the most financial sense to build the team through the draft, and just plug minor holes through free agency. I guess we just should agree to disagree on the method that this team should rebuild.

I do agree that the FO needs to change. The problem is that we\'ll probably have another 8-8 or 9-7 season, giving Benson just enough reason to let them stay.

Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

Very interesting discussion between GT and Zulu--King.

Both of you make some good points. But I agree mostly with GoldenTomb.

I think the high profile free-agents want to go to a team that has a legit shot of making it to the super bowl. Now, I think that \"money\" is what they are really after. But the money is there from teams like the Cowboys, Eagles, Panthers, etc., ect...

Who would you choose? The Saints?!

And the city in which the team plays in has something to do with it. I love New Orleans, but there are better places to live. For many different reasons.

And if a player has just become a millionaire, then New Orleans might not be as attractive as some other cities.

[Edited on 16/4/2005 by GumboBC]

Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

Because he\'s a tweener, and there is no certainty that a tweener can function in the Saints organization. Not because of the player... but because of the organization.

The Saints need to draft a player in the first round that will succeed despite poor coaching and scheme. We have poor coaching and scheme here.

My thought process is simple: draft an exceptional player or trade down. I no longer trust the coaching staff to assist in developing talent. The Saints need to spend their first round pick on a player with talent, polish, and ill intentions.

My brother sent me the Detillier Draft Report. When I look up players, I only read the negatives. From the Sully experience (and Cie Grant too) we know now that players with poor work ethics, soft dispositions, or prone to injury, will have those traits amplified in this organization. See aforementioned Sully and Grant.

However Davis could be the guy. Quoting Detillier:

It seems that all of his negatives are at the safety position. emphesis mine...
Sounds like a nearly perfect linebacker.

SFIAH

Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

Foiled again... Welp, I\'m a rookie so I don\'t have to be right, just heard. I enjoy the discussions here.

I\'m not looking to stock the team with expensive FAs. Its just that we\'ve had no luck at drafting lbs, and I wonder if we even made an effort to sign that stud FA. Maybe we should leave these tweeners alone in the draft. Thats why I\'m afraid of drafting Davis. I don\'t want him wasted for two years if he\'s having a hard time at OLB.

Great point about the city itself dissauding some players . If the Saints move, I\'m moving to Pensacola

Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

Zulu--King --

Hey, man ... I don\'t know much, but the one thing I do know is that no one is ever \"right\" here at B&G. :D

So, take no offense when someone disagrees with ya. Not that you did. ;)

I do agree that the Saints\' have not gone after the top free-agents as agressively as they should have. But that\'s pure speculation on my part. I really have no idea what the hell they do.

I do no they\'ve gone after some but were unable to sign them. But I\'ve gotta believe they could have signed one of them. Maybe they would have to give up more than some other team. Who knows?

Peace.

Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

I was just in a silly mood this morning, and wouldn\'t take offense at someone disagreeing.

Debates are good, since they help me pad my stats and move up the depth chart. :cool:

Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

First off I want to state my position that I think Thomas Davis would be a very solid draft pick if we were to use the #16 on him. What I think of when I think of Davis is a purely athletic beast who knows how to play the game. His athleticism, from several scouting reports posted here on B&G and elsewhere, is apparently very good. Personally, that makes me excited about having that kind of player on the Saints. I mean, look at the rest of our linebackers. Courtney Watson was slated as a \"thinking man\'s\" linebacker who made up for his lack of athleticism with his deep knowledge of the game. Sure, it\'s good that we have a linebacker who knows the difference between his arse and a football, but knowledge of your position can only take you so far. Derrick Rodgers, Darrin Smith, and Orlando Ruff have all slowed down considerably.
I think a fiery athletic kid like Thomas Davis would be well worth a #16 draft choice.

Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

i have to say that i like the idea of drafting crowder as well. i hated watching the guy play against LSU b/c he always seemed to make every tackle or be right there. he is an animal and is always around the ball and when he hits u, he lets u know about it.....

Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

I personally would love to get Kirk Morrison, say what you want, but he can play. He was being talked like Derrick Johnson, but he is a MLB. He may not have the name, but I htink he has what DJ has. The thing I love about Morrison is he is a fierce competitior, and he will get onto the teamates if they are messing up. I believe we should trade down in the second, pick up a later pick, get either a CB or Jamaal Brown in the first, get Morrison, and than get a DT who falls into the third. Also, It wouldn\'t be bad if we get Wallace.

[Edited on 16/4/2005 by zachsaints52]

Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

Hey GumboBc

Was that a legit shot and money from the Panthers and an Atta Boy for Jake under legit shot ????

Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

Don\'t give in so fast Zulu... especially not to Billy. ;)

You\'re absolutely correct. IMHO, one of the biggest failures of this staff over the last 4 years has been FA. FOr the last couple of years it\'s been a \"do nothing\" approach. Even when they do something, Orlanso Ruff is what you get. You talk about the Takeo Spikes year. He was a guy I really wanted also, but knew that the Saints would never make a pass at him. However, Chris Claiborne - who is a much better LB than Ruff - went for $1 million more over 3 years than what we signed Ruff for. The Saints had the third most money available under the cap in FA that year. That is horse sh!t.


Looking at the Saints right now, it\'s hard to see much significant improvement that will really affect the bottom line (wins and losses). I\'m not sure how a few more rookies is going to improve that outlook yet. I guess if they trade Howard and draft a LB, DT, OT, and CB or WR in the first three rounds, I\'ll be a little more excited. But I do not have faith in the Saints\' staff to take the right players or the right positions.

Thus, just like the last few years, the Saints\' chances this year will turn on young players maturing quickly and a few chronic underachievers to finally put it all together and step their games up. It can happen, but I don\'t hold a ton of faith. I feel that the Saints do have a legit shot at making the playoffs - but being a true contender after this offseason? Doubtful... but then stranger things have happened.

Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!
 

I\'m with Danno on Barrett Ruud. The more I read and see of him on the draft previews, the more I like the guy. Might be reaching to nab him at #16, but if we could trade down and still get him...

Still a bit leary of Crowder, though. The doubts about his knees coupled with reckless play (which could inevitably lead to MORE injuries) doesn\'t really sell me on him. At best, maybe he\'s another Dan Morgan.

[Edited on 17/4/2005 by mutineer10]