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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; PS - Good strategy. I think it is very hard to evaluate a draft immediately following the draft itself. A year later may still be too soon, but at least there is some time to see the players on the ...

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Old 04-25-2005, 10:12 AM   #11
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PS - Good strategy. I think it is very hard to evaluate a draft immediately following the draft itself. A year later may still be too soon, but at least there is some time to see the players on the field, allow the plan to develop, and see just how wise everyone actually is.
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Old 04-25-2005, 10:14 AM   #12
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We pick a guy in the 7th who ends up starting, makes a great special teams contribution and people are complaining? Go see how many 7th rounders even made their squads last year, then we\'ll talk (and I\'ll eat my words on this if it is more than a handful
Wow. completely amazing. This guy wouldn\'t start for 31 other teams but because he starts for the black and gold on the last ranked defense he is something special. We really are LB starved. :casstet:
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Old 04-25-2005, 01:18 PM   #13
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Listen Scotty,

Let\'s be realistic here. The Will Smith pick turned out to be a fairly good one. I am still convinced that it wasn\'t the best AT THAT TIME. Long-term, I don\'t know that I ever argued that it wasn\'t a good pick. Smith will be a good player with the Saints for the next few years until his contract is up. Then we\'ll dump him.



As for the other players, there\'s not a lot to pound your chest about. As a second-round pick, Henderson was worthless. Let\'s see if he even steps on the field this year. So far, that pick has been an absolute waste.


Then let\'s look at the other guys:

Watson and Buckwoldt - both starters on maybe the worst linebacking corp in the NFL. Not impressive. While I like both players and think both can be solid starters in the NFL, I\'m not ready to call either a success. How many other teams do you think Buckwoldt would have started for?


Karney - another guy I like, but again, he started b/c there is no one else. Is this guy actually a good FB? Or is he all we\'ve got? I dunno. I know I think that he can be good, but again, he\'s still got things to prove.


Liesle - played b/c A) the Saints use a platoon/rotation system in the D-line and B) because our first rounder from two years ago is too fat and lazy to get on the field. C\'mon.


I want all these guys to succeed, and they may all do that.... BUT, to cite the fact that they started as proof that they are good players (and therefore Loomis drafted well) is based on faulty logic, IMO, that ignores the fact that these players started at our weakest positions where there simply weren\'t other options.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


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he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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Old 04-25-2005, 02:27 PM   #14
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I never said that starting alone makes the picks good.

The evidence is there back it up.

Bockwoldt and Watson were on the field during our d\'s finest moments last year. Regardless of how they got there, the overall D looked better with them in than it had earlier in the season without them. They\'re both rookies, btw, and that makes them good picks so far. Both of them could flop this year and be out of the league. Then my opinion of the picks would obviously change (as it will anyway), but based on what has already occurred, they\'re good pickups.

AS far as Smith goes, I\'m not saying that the org made the best pick possible. All I\'m saying is that they made some pretty good picks. Smith is included in that.

Karney might have been the best pick of them all. We needed a FB and got someone that I have been very impressed with. I\'m sure he needs to get better, but he appears to be doing well. I love him as a short yardage pass option out of the backfield. We should have used him more last year.

The thing is most of what I\'m hearing negative about the picks of \'04 are really problems with the team rather than the picks themselves. For example, Colby wouldn\'t have started if our LB\'s didn\'t suck so bad. That may be true, but the fact that out LBs do suck and he was able to come in as a rookie and play pretty good says positive things about him. Show me another second day pick LB that went into any game and played better than Colby. That was huge value pick, imo. The way he played it looks like he should have easily been a 3rd or 4th rounder and we got him at 7. THAT makes him a good pickup.

You do like value picks , don\'t you, WhoDat?
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Old 04-25-2005, 03:05 PM   #15
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smitty --

Now you see why WhoDat is egging whodi about Howard still being here.

If you listen to whodi, then you\'d think Howard is some washed-up bum that should be kicked off the team because he can no longer produce.

I don\'t know why saintwhodi has it in for Howard. But he does!
now billy, if you go back and find where i brought up why howard should stay if we could not get equal value for him, i recall you telling me howard has probably seen his best yrs. here...........remember? still don\'t agree with that..........
howard may put up his best #\'s here this yr should he stay.......
he\'s a player, something every team wants from their people.
and what if pray tell, should one of our overloaded, talented,
capped out to the max luxuries go down in training? as with other teams? again, why get antsy? as far as giving up howard for a 2nd cause that\'s all he\'ll fetch, pleasssssssssssee.
most of you say we waste the 2nd\'s not to mention some of the 1st\'s....................where is the compensation? i still don\'t see it..............smitty
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Old 04-25-2005, 03:08 PM   #16
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smitty --

That was whodi (and a couple of others) saying we should get rid of Howard at all costs. NOT me!!

The ONLY way I wanted to get rid of Howard is if we got good value. I have NO problem with Howard being on our team.
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Old 04-25-2005, 03:12 PM   #17
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LOL - he\'s using my logic against me!

I\'m not necessarily disagreeing with you... well sort of. If you had said that they were NOT bad picks, I can\'t argue. But you said that they were good picks. I don\'t know that\'s true. They are definitely not bad. If they appear good now, it\'s b/c the team sucks, IMO. Overall, I think they\'re average, but I am fully open to the possibility (as are you) that my opinion may change if these guys keep improving like they did last year. However, until these guys are anything more than the best of quite literally the worst, I have a hard time calling them good. Value?? Yeah, probably. I\'m happy with their value.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
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Old 04-25-2005, 03:15 PM   #18
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smitty --

That was whodi (and a couple of others) saying we should get rid of Howard at all costs. NOT me!!

The ONLY way I wanted to get rid of Howard is if we got good value. I have NO problem with Howard being on our team.
go back and read and then tell you did not say that.......smitty
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Old 04-25-2005, 03:17 PM   #19
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smitty --

That was whodi (and a couple of others) saying we should get rid of Howard at all costs. NOT me!!

The ONLY way I wanted to get rid of Howard is if we got good value. I have NO problem with Howard being on our team.
BUSTED!!!!!! Backpedal, backpedal backpedal!!! This is too good. NOONE who has wanted to trade Howard has said ANYTHING about him being washed up, so this is flat out not true. It must\'ve been you, as smitty said. Got busted and trying to run. Too good. Bakpedal, backpedal, backpedal. Good go smitty!!!!!!!!
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Old 04-25-2005, 03:18 PM   #20
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smitty --

That was whodi (and a couple of others) saying we should get rid of Howard at all costs. NOT me!!

The ONLY way I wanted to get rid of Howard is if we got good value. I have NO problem with Howard being on our team.
go back and read and then tell you did not say that.......smitty
I don\'t have to go back and read. I KNOW what I said. And NEVER did I say I wanted to just give Darren Howard away.

I said a player-for-player trade was the best scenerio. I said a 2nd probably wasn\'t enough for Howard. But I think I said I could live with a 2nd.

But if you can show me where I said differntly, then I\'ll eat my hat.
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