Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

For as long as I've been watching football ... I've always found one thing to be true!!

Bad offensive lines cause good QBs to struggle.

For 2 VERY LONG YEARS I've been complaing and complaining about our offensive line.

I watched last year as Brooks regularly had instant pressure in his face directly after the snap. And that started from preseason and lasted until the end of the season.

But that problem started way before last year. In 2003 Brooks had very little time to throw the ball. I complained and complained about it back in 2003. But Deuce rushed for over 1600 yds and most folks pointed to that to say our offensive line was good. That was hardly the case when it came to pass blocking.

Brooks has been bashed on a regular basis for not being consistent and not getting us to the playoffs. With our offensive line getting a free pass ... for the most part.

Thankfully Haslett noticed what I've been saying all along. Our offensive line sucks. And has sucked for quite sometime.

This year our offensive line appears to be absolutely dominant.

And that could be dangerous to the Brooks' bashers!!

I'm speaking about the guys who have blamed Brooks for almost every problem.

This year Brooks is probably going to have a lot of time to sit back and survey the field. Kinda like Jake Delhomme had the year when he went to the super bowl. And we saw how Jake struggled last year when he didn't have time!!

I've been waiting to see Brooks behind a good offensive line. And with a healthy Deuce McAllister. Brooks has never had a good pass-blocking offensive line and a good running game at the same time. Not since 2000 anyway!!

I got my wish this year. Jerome Mayberry and Jammal Brown are now with the Saints.

I think Brooks is going to have his best season this year and I think he'll be in the probowl.

Somebody is going to be eating crow this year. Maybe that'll be me. But, I'm feeling pretty confident.





[Edited on 25/4/2005 by GumboBC]

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

Hope so, Hope so

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

I do no think Brooks bashers will be unhappy if he plays like a pro bowler -- but to say it was always his offensive line is incorrect also -- Brooks has problems with reading defenses -- has poor (but improving) footwork and often holds on to the ball way too long. I will agree that the line should translate to AB improvement --- how much remains to be seen

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

Can\'t read defenses? Okay.

Holds the ball too long? Okay.

Poor footwork? Okay.

I\'ll give you all of that.

But Brooks has improved every year he\'s been in the NFL. Except for last year. And our offensive line was so terrible I beleive it caused much of his troubles.

Brooks was voted to the pro bowl as an alternate in 2003. Last year some people think Brooks regressed. But the only thing I saw get worse was our offensive line and our 26th ranked rushing attack.

Will people be happy with Brooks if he goes to the probowl? Some will. Some wont\'.

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

I agree -- he has improved especially in his INT ratio -- I am just waiting for him to play to his physical potential. If he has the time he will definitely better -- but one thing that would really make him a fan favorite is to play with more passion earlier in the game

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

Wow. 2004 Carolina Panthers 16 16 533 310 58.2 3886 7.29 63 29 15 33/246 60 8 87.3

Almost 3900 yards(more than Brooks ever), 29 Tds(more than Brooks ever, 15 INTs(which beats Brooks every year but 2003), and a passer rating 1.5 points lower than Brooks best EVER, and Jake we all saw how JAKE struggled last year? Wow.

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

I would be wrong if I said the line took care of business last year, but you are oversimplifying the equation here.

Brooks tends to feel the pressure before it gets there. (Not bashing him...this could be a product of the pressure being pretty consistent.)

You are foregetting about the Brooks shuffle where he spins around (only to lose any speed he had going his way) and runs INTO the pressure. Brooks does not have a very good pocket presence and if you argue against that, you are just not allowing yourself to be objective.

If you can find a copy of the Tampa game at Tampa, watch it all the way through objectively. Brooks was horrible in that game and he created opportunities for the D to make sacks. He ran backwards and held the ball too long. I\'m not saying the line is blameless, but the QB has to realize the realities of his situation and adjust.

I would love to see video of him stepping into a throw in the face of pressure....you just won\'t see it happen. Oh, and on 3 step drops, the line isn\'t much of a factor unless there is a crazy blitz. Ab routinely turns 3 step drops into 6 step drops with a loopty loo, do si do get sacked or sky one over the bench. That, my friend, is a man not executing the pass play.

I gave AB the benefit of the doubt for 3 years and the \'04 season did it for me. I\'m over his game. I used to overlook games like the Cincy game where he threw a bonehead pick in the enzone or the play-in game against carolina in \'02 where the offense shut down every time they crossed the 50.

I\'m done with AB. I don\'t think his head is in the right place and I think he is beyond reproach among this staff. I was glad to see Mike go, but disappointed to see another guy put in who has been in AB\'s ear all along.

If AB is better this year, the line may be a factor. I don\'t disagree with that. However, I think Adrian will be a bigger factor because Brooks tends to bask in his own perceived greatness. AB might look at this guy and see a younger and possibly hungrier version of himself. He has grown comfy and complacent. He can no longer say \"I\'m long, lean and athletic, with a cannon arm\". There\'s another guy who can make the same claim now. He\'s gonna have to show some consistency or he can get on gettin on to another city who will boo him even more.

I don\'t dislike AB. There are certainly much bigger Aholes in the league. But...you cannot deny that this team has missed some chances because of his (and other\'s) play. I listen to Tom Brady\'s comments and they are always right on with regard to team success and getting behind a QB to get it done. AB just never puts it on himself when he does bad and when he does good he\'s like \"see, i told you i was great\". It\'s tired and I don\'t see his worldview shifting behind a better o line. He\'s still gonna call himself a victim because the boo birds have called in the past.

AB needs accountability...something he\'s never had. I would love to see him do well....it just makes it that much worse when he comes out 2 weeks later and looks like a rookie. If he comes out and leads us to 10-6 and we make a playoff run.....I will cheer for him mightily. But....I\'m tired of watching him make stupid plays...period.

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

AB dosent have any passion. He\'s a cyborg, and it dosen\'t matter to him if it\'s 2nd and, 1 or 4th and 15. Bulger gets the same flack, and even Brady used to. Passion dosen\'t help the WRs catch, either. The reactions AB shows on the field are just that, for show. He\'s just tired of people whining about his passion. I don\'t now how people buying a ticket means they have the right to change a man\'s psyche. AB was the same way all his life, until last season.

I agree with BC on the other counts, exept AB reading Ds. The TP said he reads Ds better than Jake. Vick, Pepper, Uncle Brett and McNabb will make it very hard for any other QB to go to the Pro Bowl

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

Yeah...the Panthers had it made last year didn\'t they? No injury concerns at all. Any struggles they had could be pinned right on Jake\'s head :brood:

Jake didn\'t throw very well against us in the last game, but that team showed alot of heart to post the record they did. That\'s just a bad reference.

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

Offensive line = New and exciting excuses for why AB is still inconsistent come November and on.

AB might play better - but I thought he was at his best when plays break down? Isn\'t that what all the scouts say? I dunno what he\'ll do, but I\'d put money down that he\'ll continue to be inconsistent. When he is, I wonder what the new excuse will be.

Like I said, every year AB finds a new and exciting way to F up - Backpeddling, INTs, fumbling, backwards/underhanded passes.... and every year certain people blame it on the line, wrs, rbs, tes.... but not Brooks. I doubt that will change.

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

I certainly don\'t absolve AB of anything. People just make it easy to defend him, because AB takes ALL the blame. I\'ve been here a month and I\'ve seen the LBs blasted once or twice. The O line, not until the draft. The WR drops, not until an AB supporter bring them up. Ab\'s name comes up in every thread

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

Bingo, Whodat. :thumbup:

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

We hear AB to pro bowl every year lets all remember we drafted brown but doesn\'t mean he is NFL ready.
Everybody bashes brooks, haslett, and venturi every year but once off-season starts everybody starts the Pro Bowl talk about AB and especially last year thr Boo pro bowler. This team still has a lot of question marks and lets all hope Donte\' doesn\'t get hurt because we have no true 3 or even 4 reciever talman and devery are hype but nothing special.

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

Clearly I see things much different than most.

And clearly I place much more importance on the offensive line than most.

Blaming the offensive line for many of Brooks\' problems isn\'t deflecting blame away from Brooks.

It\'s stating the obvious. And the obvious is that a bad offensive line causes good QB\'s to struggle.

Anyone think our offensive line hasn\'t been terrible?

If you don\'t think it has been bad, then my conversation ends with that person as we\'ll just have to agree to disagree.

But if you think our offensive line has been bad, they surly you\'ll agree that it\'s affected the play of our QB. Why do you think offensive linemen are drafted so high? To protect the QB?

If a team can\'t run the ball, it\'s usually the offensive line. Not the RB.

If a QB is struggling, many many times it\'s because of the offensive line.

In Brooks\' case, there is NO question in my mind that our offensive line has caused many many problems.

If our offensive line gives Brooks time to throw the ball and he still struggles, then I\'ll vote for Brooks to be traded.

Like I said, I feel very confident. I\'ve seen Brooks play and I have a lot to go on. Why? Because I\'ve also seen our offensive line play.

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

Gumbo I totally agree with you on this one. Take a look back to the 2000 and 2001 seasons and notice how solid our offensive line was. Those guys were nasty. As a result, Brooks had extra time to make better reads and throw better passes. Watching the Saints ever since then, the O line has slowly been declining in talent and performance. This past season, it reached a new low. Anybody remember the Tampa game at the end of the year? Our season was depending on this game at the time. We had to win if we wanted any chance of getting to the playoffs. Now some of you might remember that AB had a pretty poor game. You know what I remember about that game? Spencer Folau. He was lined up opposite of Simeon Rice. Boy howdy, that was entertaining. It was like watching a Grizzly bear play with a three-year old. If you don\'t remember Folau\'s performance, let\'s just say he\'s a little looser now. In fact, Spence gave up 3.5 sacks in that one game, and the entire o-line surrendered 7 sacks. 7!!!!! That\'s ridiculous. I remember the ball being snapped, and then AB immediately being met by some Tampa defender. And it wasn\'t just the Tampa game where AB was getting hammered and constantly had pressure in his face, Carolina had about 4 each game we played them.

So basically what I am saying is that I really believe the reason why AB has \"regressed\" is because the offensive line has regressed. Give the guy some time to make decisions, and he\'ll come through, just like he did the first few years he was with the Saints (when they had a good line).

Anyways, I would love to see AB have a great season, and he should be helped even more when our running game gets back on track.

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

Billy - your argument isn\'t the problem. It\'s the way you apply it. Two years ago when the offensive line managed to help Deuce become the NFC\'s leading rusher pretty much all season and earned Deuce a trip to the Pro Bowl, you know what I heard?

Well they were good in run blocking but they weren\'t good in pass blocking... and Deuce did most of that himself anyway - he\'s a top talent. A year later Deuce is out of shape and injury prone and RBs are a dime a dozen, and the line has sucked forever. What about the year before that? And the year before that?

Bottom line is that our o-line wasn\'t bad until last season (maybe at the end of 2003 it struggled in pass protection, I\'ll give you that). But what about before? Oh Brooks was young.

Like I said - there\'s always an excuse.

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

WhoDat --

In my mind ... I\'ve NEVER made excuses for Brooks.

In your mind ... I\'ve ALWAYS made excuses for Brooks.

I\'ve always blamed (since I\'ve been a member of B&G) the offensive line for MANY (not all) of Brooks\' problems.

The problem is ... not many fans want to blame an offensive line. It\'s the QB who receives the majority of the criticism. It\'s just much more \"sexy\" to blame the QB. Aferall, the QB is the one with the ball in his hands every play. He should make something happen.

I\'m not into placing blame where I don\'t think it goes. And I TRULY believe that our offensive line has played a LARGE roll in AB\'s problems. And I think that\'s going to be proven this year.

It only seems that I\'m deflecting blame from Brooks. When in fact, I\'m placing the blame squarely where I think it goes.

That does not mean I think AB is the greatest thing since sliced bread. He has he faults. But I believe his positives far outweigh his negatives.

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

The more probable part of this equation is :

Front line all chips in and buys Brooks a ticket to the Pro Bowl so he can see what a real Pro Bowl quarterback looks like . They do it in hope of him taking notes ..... ;)

[Edited on 26/4/2005 by saintz08]

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

Dont forget about the Defense sucking all year and us not being able to run the ball cause were down by 30 points. This leads to AB throwing 40 to 60 times a game, allowing the other teams Defense to pin there ears back. And our O-line sucking did\'nt help either.
If the O-line gives him time then AB can pick a Defense apart better then anyone.
The only prob. i ever had with AB is the fumbling and i think he has taken care of that. And i think he should take off and run more often.
If we can show up as a team week in and week out then there\'s no reason we cant go to the SB. (And AB to the probowl along with others)

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

So the hop scotch carpet passes are cool with you ???

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

Not as bad as D Stallworth and the others dropping 3 or 4 cruitial passes per game.

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

I agree with what you\'re saying, Nate. Problem is we\'re in a small market. Maybe Favre retiring, and AB putting up serious numbers wil help his bid. Going deep into the playoffs, also.

I just don\'t see AB leap-frogging the other QBs I\'ve mentioned into the Pro Bowl, no matter what he does.

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

That would explain some things but what about our pathetic attempts to score in the first quarter --

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

excellent point yas on pocket presence. i see regression in this aspect. when he first came on he had elusiveness in the pocket (whether much rush or little) and could put a little scare into other teams by having the long ball or running. these two things have definitely declined-
+40 yd completions
\'01- 13
\'02- 12
\'03- 7
\'04- 5
rushing yds/avg./1st downs rushing
\'01- 358/4.5/24
\'02- 253/4.1/21
\'03- 175/3.2/20
\'04- 173/3.0/14
steady on the fumbles tho-
\'01- 13
\'02- 11
\'03- 14
\'04- 13

poor foot work and holding the ball too long (cuz ya cannot read defenses well enough) will lower the interception rate and increase the number of sacks whether the line sucks or is all-pro.

as far as the line, if mayberry has some gas left and bentley settles in then guard to guard should be fine. brown looks like he will be a road grader but will have some rookie learning curve to overcome. There are no Baylors on NFL schedules. Gandy got very old last year it seemed. He is 34 and has only missed one start in the past ten years. That is a lot of miles. We can only hope to get one more season out of him. If either of them goes down? That is scary. Folau didn\'t even appear serviceable when in there. Stinchcomb cannot stay on the active roster. It seems most say his future is at guard, if there is one.

Kudos for the imagination to translate this line to the probowl for AB though.

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

We don\'t need brooks to be Vick. Brooks is more dangerous passing the ball... with the recievers and Deuce... sure an occasional scramble for a first down great... but give him much more time frees up recievers and let him be the gun-slinger that he is. Not only by improving the OL will benefit the passing game but also help Deuce and ball control equals less time your D will be on the field.

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

i am not suggesting vick-likeness. he never has been that (700-900 yds, 7ypc). but having some scrambling threat as an aspect of his game did add a lot to the offense overall. yds rushing has decreased to less than half of \'01 and rushing 1st downs 24 to 14... significant loss!

if we say the o-line has been deteriorating it seems he would have been on the run more. i think it has been more a conscious decision to not use that ability as much. he has stated as much hasn\'t he?

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

I\'m not sure I get this argument.

While I won\'t argue that our WRs don\'t have the best hands, and could all improve in the hands department, how is this the reason for AB\'s inconsistent play???

For starters, our WRs are average to just above average in the drop category. We are far from leading the league. The number of drop experienced by AB\'s WRs when compared to the number of AB\'s attempts place the team\'s numbers in the middle of the pack. In other words, you can\'t say the Roethsliberger\'s WRs only dropped half the passes that AB\'s did, but AB thre twice as many passes.


Second, this ignores other factors too. I will not argue for a second that our WRs dropped some very catchable balls. They also caught some very uncatchable balls. That counts for Brooks, right? I\'m amazed some times to see Pathon and Stallworth continue to sell out into monster hits after AB leads them directly into a safety. That doesn\'t count for anything?


Finally, just play the numbers game.

Let\'s say our WRs drop 5 balls in a game, and catch 15. That means that they caught 75% of the catchable balls and dropped 25%. AB misses on 40%-50% of his passes. I guarantee AB throws 5 terrible passes a game. Is that irrelevant?

Also, how often did our WRs fumble on the one yard line? How often did the try to lateral while being tackled and toss the ball into a CB\'s hands?


People like to talk about \"big\" drops. The one most pointed to is the Tampa Bay game of two years ago by Joe Horn that would have been a TD. Joe lost the game!!! Nevermind the fact that AB FUMBLED on the next play in field goal range and Tampa returned it into Saints territory. Nevermind that Horn, after being hobbled when selling out for a poor AB pass, still managed to sky on bad knees to make two amazing catches in the Carolina game that year, which basically single-handedly won the game for us.


The point of all this: AB\'s WRs DO NOT hurt him more than they help him. Further, they are nowhere near handless mutants that some people make them out to be.

Joe Horn can manage to go to the Pro Bowl with an inconsistent QB, bad running game, and no help from other WRs. AB cannot. Why does AB deserve a pass? Doesn\'t that just make Horn even more impressive then? If so, how can you call AB\'s WRs crap if Horn is such a stud?

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

That is the understatement of the year... anyways...

Every year Brooks has been here we have had a good offensive line except for last year. And out of all those years Brooks has only been to a ProBowl once as an ALTERNATE. What will be the exception this year? Can you honestly say he\'ll go before McNabb, Favre, Vick, Jake, Matt, etc...? I think not.

I see people in this forum complain about pass rushers always in the back field all the time. :yes:

Nonetheless I am a Saints fan as are the rest of us. Who wouldn\'t want him to make it to the ProBowl and prove lots of people wrong? This will be a make or break year for him... there are no more excuses. All the weapons are there for him now and our line is as good as the previous years prior to the last one. I honestly hope he does well because we are tired of 8-8 playoff-less seasons.

Hell if the RedSoxs can win a pennant... why can\'t we? :P

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

couldn\'t have said it better. what\'s going to be really funny is when brooks struggles and several posters on this board have their excuses for him swept away.

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

bad schemes. bad defense- ya cannot expect to ever win if playing from behind. those darned wide receivers. the o-line turns out to be a disappointment. how can ya succeed if fans are booing ya. there\'s plenty more where those came from baron.

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

Don\'t forget smiles never hurt anybody, and you don\'t need to be a leader at the QB position. Any more?

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

... I have said it before, and I will say it again...

...when some fans stop giving all the props to Brooks for everything good the team does, that will be the day that other fans will stop micro-analysing Brooks and pointing out his every flaw.....

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

I have heard this statement every year for the last 3 when it comes to Aaron Brooks.

No offense, but it\'s flat wrong. I don\'t disagree that AB needs to put up or shut up. In fact, I\'ve been saying that for years. What I mean is that this isn\'t make or break, and yes, there are ALWAYS more excuses when it comes to AB. The only thing as consistent as humidity in New Orleans the last few years have been mediocrity, inconsistency, and excuses. There WILL be more excuses this year.... at some point... for someone... most likely Brooks. I guarantee it.

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

You are right -- excuses are a part of the NFL. But this year - with the beefing up of the offensive line -- most excuses will start to fall on deaf ears. I think that is the main point here

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

AB has had decent lines in front of him before. He was behind a less than decent line last year. It didn\'t matter. He has been inconsistent regardless. AB will continue to start until someone beats him out or Haz finally has enough.

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

For ANYone who thinks Brooks has been playing behind good offensive lines ... CLEARLY we haven\'t been watching the same games.

It just took our offensive line \"sucking\" SO BAD last year that some of you finally noticed it.

And CLEARLY Haslett and Co. are thinking the samething. Which is why they placed such a high priority on the offensive line this year.

Make no mistake ... Our offensive line sucked at pass blocking in 2003.

You guys do understand there\'s a BIG difference between \"run\" blocking and \"pass\" blocking?

Offensive tackles might be real great at pushing a defensive linemen around and opening up holes for the RB, but they might suck at pass blocking. Some of those guys (like Victor Riley) just don\'t have the foot-speed to get out fast enough and pass block.

In any event ... our offensive line appears to be much better than average this year.

Brooks was voted to the pro bowl as an alternate in 2003. It\'s not that big of a reach to think Brooks will play much better behind a great offensive line.

And as soon as some of you get off of your Brooks\' agenda, you might see the samething!!! ;)



[Edited on 26/4/2005 by GumboBC]

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

Kind of like the line he had in 2002?? When the Saints were one of the top offenses in the league, and despite all that, he still couldn\'t break the top 15 in QB rating, Comp %, etc???

Go look at old posts from before every offseason. EVERY year since 2001 or so it\'s been \"make or break\" for AB, Haz, and the Saints in general. Every year there are excuses.

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

Last year, AB made as many mistakes as the o-line did. the year before that, the line was good, and AB was selected as a pro-bowl alternate. We all know this. This is nothing new.

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

You base the offensive line being good in 2003 based on what?

From what I saw , they were terrible at pass blocking in 2003.

And Brooks made as many mistakes as the offensive line last year???

Hey ... we our offensive line led the NFL in penalties. Not to mention those 46-sacks they gave up. And don\'t forget about all the times Deuce got hit in the backfield.





[Edited on 26/4/2005 by GumboBC]

Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl
 

Turley - He was horrible.

Roaf - Yea he sucked too.

Fontenot - One of the worse centers who\'ve ever played the game.

Holland - Wow what is he like 5\'2 130, he blocks like a girl.

Bentley - Who? Did we sign this guy from the XFL?

Naole - This guys isn\'t anchoring Jacksonville\'s line is he? WTF?

YES CLEARLY, WE have been in outer space.