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My thought on the 2018 draft

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II I read earlier where someone said that this felt more like a Payton/Loomis draft. It seems like Ireland has done a good job of scaling back on Payton's tendency to gamble big in recent ...

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Old 04-29-2018, 02:48 PM   #21
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Re: My thought on the 2018 draft

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II View Post
I read earlier where someone said that this felt more like a Payton/Loomis draft. It seems like Ireland has done a good job of scaling back on Payton's tendency to gamble big in recent years but just couldn't keep a lid on it this year.

The gambles are big but so are the rewards. It may take more than just training camp to find these young players max potential. I guess I'm in a wait and see mode.
Waiting to see if to credit Ireland or Blame Payton/Loomis for this draft?
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Old 04-29-2018, 03:01 PM   #22
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Re: My thought on the 2018 draft

Originally Posted by jeanpierre View Post

...Again, love the blind loyalty, but this draft needs to be questioned because we should be putting the final pieces in place for a run this year...
Of course the draft needs to be questioned but to try to judge it before the picks have even put on pads is silly. The Saints front office must think these players have a good chance of being coached up to their potential. As of now, how can anyone say they're wrong? I recognize that it's offseason and there's not much to do other than debate potential but it's purely wasted time until the players take the field and we see how they shake out.

I suspect the coaches and scouts have spent more time analyzing each of these players and how they would fit into the Saints plans than any so called "draft expert" and far more than any of us here on the board. That's not blind loyalty, that's just common sense.

Some examples of last years "draft experts" wisdom...

“A big question mark here was the value given up to draft Kamara. Even if you question any possibilities beyond 2017 for Mark Ingram or Adrian Peterson, trading a second-rounder to move up and take my No. 88 overall player is iffy." - Mel Kiper, ESPN

Ryan Ramczyk "I don't get this pick. Where does he play..." C+ , Pete Prisco, CBSNFL

This one makes no sense at all. If the Saints already have an elite multipurpose back in Mark Ingram Jr. and signed an aging up-the-middle bruiser in Adrian Peterson, then why on Earth did the Saints trade up to draft Tennessee Volunteers running back Alvin Kamara near the top of the third round? Kamara is a good player, but can’t handle a bell-cow workload. New Orleans is a terrible landing spot for him." - John Buhler, NFL Fansided

""We saw a little bit of a safety run in the middle of the second round. New Orleans was right in the mix of that nonsense and overdraft Utah Utes safety Marcus Williams." - John Buhler NFL Fansided

"Ryan Ramczyk C+" Larry Holder, NOLA Times Picayune

I don't mean to say the front office shouldn't be held accountable. Two first rounders for one player needs to be held to a very high standard. In my opinion, to justify the picks, Davenport needs to beat out Okafor and start game 1. And by the end of the season he needs to be, at least, a serious probowl contender. The point I'm trying to make is that until they take the field, judging the draft at this point, positive or negative, is waste of time.
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Old 04-29-2018, 03:08 PM   #23
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Re: My thought on the 2018 draft

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
No. It's because you are not psychics hovering over your crystal balls knowing all. The fact is that none of us have a fraction of the information that the true decision makers have at their availability. How many of us have personally interviewed these players? How many of us have worked them out?

Pan away, but be prepared to eat the proverbial crow.
Nobody is claiming to be psychics or knowing it all. And your questions are designed to intimidate anyone who disagrees by infusing the unrealistic & the improbable.

None of us met & worked out all 250+ prospects individually. None of us work for or in an NFL war room. Yet that's your prevailing argument for any voice that questions anything this great team does. It's an intimidation tactic that's designed to render opposing opinion invalid & worthless.

The Saints F.O. is not infallible. I give props where props are due. The 3rd Rd pick was decent and the 5th-7th Rd picks were on point. I just don't like the price we paid for MD (unless he Pro Bowls it in 3-5 yrs). The 4th was a complete waste.

There are very knowledgeable football folks on here...30+ years worth for a bunch of us. We should have a voice without the veiled intimidation.

When MD becomes a Pro Bowler & Slick Rick cracks the PS, I'll go on the "All Crow" diet.

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Old 04-29-2018, 03:11 PM   #24
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Re: My thought on the 2018 draft

Originally Posted by Barry from MS View Post
Nobody is claiming to be psychics or knowing it all. And your questions are designed to intimidate anyone who disagrees by infusing the unrealistic & the improbable.

None of us met & worked out all 250+ prospects individually. None of us work for or in an NFL war room. Yet that's your prevailing argument for any voice that questions anything this great team does. It's an intimidation tactic that's designed to render opposing opinion invalid & worthless.

The Saints F.O. is not infallible. I give props where props are due. The 3rd Rd pick was decent and the 5th-7th Rd picks were on point. I just don't like the price we paid for MD (unless he Pro Bowls it in 3-5 yrs). The 4th was a complete waste.

There are very knowledgeable football folks on here...30+ years worth for a bunch of us. We should have a voice without the veiled intimidation.

When MD becomes a Pro Bowler & Slick Rick cracks the PS, I'll go on the "All Crow" diet.
And what do you base your biased proclamation that the 4th round pick was a total waste? If he becomes the versatile swing OL that we need then how is that a total waste? How do you already know that is the final outcome?



I just guess we swing different ways. You choose to expect the worst while I more realistically choose to expect and hope for the best and wait to see how things shape up.
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Old 04-29-2018, 03:23 PM   #25
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Re: My thought on the 2018 draft

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
And what do you base your biased proclamation that the 4th round pick was a total waste? If he becomes the versatile swing OL that we need then how is that a total waste? How do you already know that is the final outcome?

Because I'm psychic & I helped put his pads on before every game. Seriously? The improbable & unrealistic again.

I watched him play at FSU. Numerous times. He's just not that good. Blown up & whiffs too much. I'm going by what I saw on the field between the lines. Potential? Sure, but all prospects have potential. He's just not strong, quick, or balanced.

Please forgive this intrusive & uneducated opinion.

If he's coached up & motivated, a back-up swing man is possible 2-3 years away. There was just too much talent at that point of the draft who could have contributed THIS year. That's why it was a waste...could've got him much later. I know, I know...'How do you know we could've gotten him later?" I'm psychic.

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Old 04-29-2018, 03:30 PM   #26
 
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Re: My thought on the 2018 draft


New Orleans Saints Head Coach Sean Payton

Post-Draft Press Conference

Saturday, April 28, 2018

Are (Natrell) Jamerson and (Kamrin) Moore similar?

“I would say here is what they have in common, they are both smart, good football players with some position flexibility. I think in Natrell’s case our vision initially is outside and he is someone that tested out very well and can run. He is very quick, quick twitch so sudden. And I think with Moore, you see him play nickel you know you can see him have the flexibility and can go back and be a safety but both are smart, savvy football players that as you get later in the draft and you're trying to project a vision with as much as our game has changed, these are guys that can come in and compete in the secondary. And the vision will be a little different for each but they have similar traits.”

Was Natrell’s ability to return kicks a consideration?

“That was part of it. We’ll have a chance to evaluate these guys in two weeks to see how they do. You know I would say the same thing took place with Boston (Scott). He's a guy that we worked out, also was a punt returner. So trying to have a role for these players and really see how their skills apply to your team and then trying to get them to the right position when they first get here will be our goal.”

Natrell played safety at Wisconsin, how do you take what he did on film and turn that into the vision?

“Well he's also a guy that has gone outside. That’s a good spot to start. He's a guy that is very athletic. We had some individual workouts with some of these players so I would say both with Natrell, Kamrin, Boston those guys, we've all worked out separate and then other than a pro day. So I think most importantly as we were discussing these guys both Natrell and Cameron we discussed at that very same pick and fortunately you know around later we were able to select the other player but we'll see as they come in here and see where their weights are at, how they tackle. We do think they're both guys that are physical and both guys that fit our profile.

Mickey mentioned yesterday that you guys probably weren’t trading away picks on the last day, do you think that was important?

“Yeah. We made the trade in the first round. It wasn't like there weren't times today where “oh there was discussions about moving one direction or another.” But in the end we felt pretty good about where we were sitting with both sixes, the seven, the five and it kind of fell to us rather than maybe in the first round where we went and got a player that we felt good about overall how it unfolded in we'll see. We're anxious to get these guys out there and prepared and in bringing them up to speed with our system.”

What is your vision for Will Clapp?

“He has played a lot of games at a high level competition. We know he can give us center snaps. We're very familiar of course with the program. And to play as many games as he's played and SEC competition and he's been very reliable. He's got outstanding football IQ. Our vision initially would be at center.”

Anybody in the room make a joke about how you guys finally drafted an LSU guy?

“When did we take, probably I can't think of what year (Al Woods in 2010). (I) Didn't really pay attention to that. I understand it and each year it's just hard how it unfolds sometimes. So we got an LSU player and we also I called him and I always ask everyone where you at. And he's like I’m in Metairie. And I said all right. So he's local and he probably can save some money on rent (laughter).”

How much have you seen pretty much on every positon across the board over time the position flexibility level increase?

“I think the challenge is always different than in college as the rosters are smaller. And then the gameday roster is not 53, you have to even go down fewer than that. So when you when you bring 46 players to the game and you begin to look at the snaps that they're playing both offensively and defensively, it's hard to have a lot of backups that are just only going to play in the event of an injury, that can happen on the offensive line, it can happen (at) quarterback. And so that versatility in the kicking game, whether it's second or third down packages, jumbo packages. We try to spend a lot of time on what we think they can do and not as much time on what they can't do. Do they fit? Do we have a good vision? And then how can they help us on Sunday? And you just have to be that much more efficient when you're looking at roster sizes like that.”

How about Rick Leonard? What did you guys like about him?

“Leonard came into Florida State playing on defense, defensive end. There’s a physicalness about him. We think that there is still some growth because of his lack of experience. He’s a big body, he’s physical. Right away I can see a jumbo role. I could see him compete to be a gameday backup tackle. I thought as the season went on with his film it got better and better and you could see him becoming more and more familiar with playing on the offensive side of the ball. He is athletic. It was a number of those things.”

Was special teams versatility something you targeted with some of these picks?

“If you are looking at it I think Tre’Quan (Smith) is going to have some special teams value. I think both Jamerson and Moore clearly will have that value. I think Scott in a return phase will compete. We'll just talk about the player. Here's the vision. What do we see? Is it four corners in the special teams or is it just two-phased or one-phased. Of course, the player has to come in and earn all of that. But we do want to kind of hear it again just like we did a month ago in our readings and two months ago in our February readings.”

What’s your vision for Smith?

“He's physically is big. He's a guy that blocks. I like his size. I like his strong hands. I think he is very competitive. For us, with that selection, it was clearly a magnet with a great value pick for us. A guy that I think has that grit and toughness that will help him on the next level.

Do you feel like you guys feel like you were able to fill some needs?

“Hopefully. I think that you’re trying to find guys that can make the roster, that bring something to the table and you are trying to look at specifically. With Tre’Quan, we're looking at the group in general but there's a big physical receiver I don't know that we went into the draft saying we must draft a receiver. The two DBs, Leonard and Jamerson, we had a corner need or want and we feel like we've got some position flexibility with these guys when you get into some of your packages defensively. Scott’s someone that we're really familiar with, worked out not too long ago for us. He too was local in Baton Rouge. He is a pretty good runner as well as a guy that can catch the ball out of the backfield. He has some versatility. And then you'll have a chance to learn and see how he can come around as punt returner. Hopefully we have.”

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Old 04-29-2018, 04:03 PM   #27
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Re: My thought on the 2018 draft

I think the right move was to go get him. We needed an edge rusher NOW. he probably has the best potential besides chubb to start NOW. Waiting to see who falls to us isn't the rright answer. Plus after what Ireland has been doing I don't feel its a wise decision to second guess him - example Kamara.
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Old 04-29-2018, 04:05 PM   #28
 
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Re: My thought on the 2018 draft

Originally Posted by Euphoria View Post
I think the right move was to go get him. We needed an edge rusher NOW. he probably has the best potential besides chubb to start NOW. Waiting to see who falls to us isn't the rright answer. Plus after what Ireland has been doing I don't feel its a wise decision to second guess him - example Kamara.
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Old 04-29-2018, 04:21 PM   #29
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Re: My thought on the 2018 draft

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint View Post
Of course the draft needs to be questioned but to try to judge it before the picks have even put on pads is silly. The Saints front office must think these players have a good chance of being coached up to their potential. As of now, how can anyone say they're wrong? I recognize that it's offseason and there's not much to do other than debate potential but it's purely wasted time until the players take the field and we see how they shake out.

I suspect the coaches and scouts have spent more time analyzing each of these players and how they would fit into the Saints plans than any so called "draft expert" and far more than any of us here on the board. That's not blind loyalty, that's just common sense.

Some examples of last years "draft experts" wisdom...

“A big question mark here was the value given up to draft Kamara. Even if you question any possibilities beyond 2017 for Mark Ingram or Adrian Peterson, trading a second-rounder to move up and take my No. 88 overall player is iffy." - Mel Kiper, ESPN

Ryan Ramczyk "I don't get this pick. Where does he play..." C+ , Pete Prisco, CBSNFL

This one makes no sense at all. If the Saints already have an elite multipurpose back in Mark Ingram Jr. and signed an aging up-the-middle bruiser in Adrian Peterson, then why on Earth did the Saints trade up to draft Tennessee Volunteers running back Alvin Kamara near the top of the third round? Kamara is a good player, but can’t handle a bell-cow workload. New Orleans is a terrible landing spot for him." - John Buhler, NFL Fansided

""We saw a little bit of a safety run in the middle of the second round. New Orleans was right in the mix of that nonsense and overdraft Utah Utes safety Marcus Williams." - John Buhler NFL Fansided

"Ryan Ramczyk C+" Larry Holder, NOLA Times Picayune

I don't mean to say the front office shouldn't be held accountable. Two first rounders for one player needs to be held to a very high standard. In my opinion, to justify the picks, Davenport needs to beat out Okafor and start game 1. And by the end of the season he needs to be, at least, a serious probowl contender. The point I'm trying to make is that until they take the field, judging the draft at this point, positive or negative, is waste of time.
Man..if I could, I would like this post a million times! Perfect examples of "experts" not knowing sheet. They think they know, but they really don't. How many came back after last yr saying, "I was dead wrong"? None..nadda.
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Old 04-29-2018, 04:54 PM   #30
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Re: My thought on the 2018 draft

Originally Posted by llaguardia81 View Post
I give the draft a B- or a C. The Saints needed a TE. What did they leave the draft without? A TE. Davenport may work out, but they still gave a little too much for him. And why draft a RB when you're set at that position?
You never have a perfect team. You’ll always have a weak spot. It’s all about depth. We need depth. Injuries happen and strong positions become weak. Growth happens and weak positions become strong.
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