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One draft. How many starters?

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; < Begin sarcasm > We don\'t need to, we\'re the Saints. Besides, our LB\'s are amazing, they can stop everything and we don\'t have to worry about our safeties tackling! < End sarcasm >...

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Old 04-26-2005, 07:45 PM   #11
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One draft. How many starters?

< Begin sarcasm >

We don\'t need to, we\'re the Saints. Besides, our LB\'s are amazing, they can stop everything and we don\'t have to worry about our safeties tackling!

< End sarcasm >
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Old 04-26-2005, 07:48 PM   #12
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One draft. How many starters?

I don\'t know how realistic it is to believe a team is going to get two \"impact\" players in the draft?!

I\'m not talking about \"starters\" here guys. Lots of teams get two guys who start in their first year. But I don\'t know of many (if any) teams who get 2 real \"impact\" guys!

And what\'s the chance you can draft 2 impact players at positions of need? Things would have to work just right for a team for that to happen. Or you would need 2 first round draft picks for that to be more likely.

Even guys who are drafted in the 1st round often don\'t make that big of an impact. Some do ... but many do not.

Before the Saints\' draft .. I was hopeful that we\'d get one big-time stud who would make an immediate impact this year and help our team win some games.

The conventional thinking by many draft experts is that there wasn\'t but one LB who was ready to make an immediate impact. And that was DJ. And even he wasn\'t billed as a sure-fire can\'t miss type of guy like LBs in previous drafts.

I keep hearing about guys like Burnett or Ruud. Maybe they are better than our current LBs. But are they ready to step in and make an immediate impact? If so ... then why weren\'t they drafted in the 1st round?

Not saying they won\'t make an immediate impact ... But just the fact that they weren\'t thought to be first round picks suggests that they might struggle in their 1st year.

Anything is possible. But how likely is it?



[Edited on 27/4/2005 by GumboBC]
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:00 PM   #13
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One draft. How many starters?

Gumbo, simple answer...Brown! The rest are PROJECTS with no project leaders!
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:37 PM   #14
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One draft. How many starters?

I like to think you to go into the draft with the goal of getting 1 starter and 1 role player.

The 1st rounder should be able to contribure (QB may be an exception here, but it may not, I\'m not sure what I think about it). I would like to see the 2nd rounder at least play \"some\". By that I mean, not just being a special teamer. Basically, I\'d like to see 2nd rounders work their way into the starting lineup by mid-season.

Any further down, I think any production you get from the rookies is excellent, but not mandatory.

This is what still frustrates me about the Bullock pick. He seems to be a natural FS based on his time at Nebraska. I\'m not sure why we draft a FS at 40 when our best free agent pickup this year was also at FS. Seems to me that Bullock isn\'t going to do anything but special teams this year. I would even argue against him on the merits, but basically it seems like we got a non-starter in round 2, again.

Give our myriad of defensive needs, I don\'t think it was wise to draft a guy that I don\'t see starting this season. I will be happy to be proved wrong about this, but I\'m not counting on it.

I also think we\'ll regret passing on Thurman with that selection.

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Old 04-26-2005, 09:54 PM   #15
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One draft. How many starters?

I also think we\'ll regret passing on Thurman with that selection.
You can thank Sullivan for that.
The last thing this team wants to do is invest a bunch of money into a guy who\'s one barfight away from 5-10.
Its OK to do that with a cheap 5th rounder, but there\'s no way this FO could justify another high-dollar guy with issues.

With that being said, I\'ve heard without the issues, he\'s a top 10 pick. I think there may be 31 teams that will eventually regret passing on him, if he stays clean.
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Old 04-26-2005, 10:54 PM   #16
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One draft. How many starters?

if the question is how many impact players we should have gotten in this draft, my answer is 3.

The first rounder is more often counted on than not for that. Alex Smith, the first snap of the first game is the hope and plan. Aaron Rodgers no expectation until \'06 or \'07. Brown is definitely counted on to not only start but play at a high level from the get go. Barron or Barnes might have more upside than Brown but they both might need a little more work before taking that weight is the scouting report. If it had been DJ immediate impact would have been expected. he was still the top defensive player in the draft on many boards.

At #40 I dunno about Bullocks. He is a pure free safety, not strong or corner by any means. I am trying to digest that they will implement and right/left safety and thus facilitate him to have impact sooner rather than later. (I hope that doesn\'t mean Bock or Allen has to cover the TE). Burnett was arguably (not much tho) the BPA. The crux was that this might be the weakest LB unit in the entire league. Okay, pass on the most legitimate impact LB/defender cuz you think Brown is the BPA or OT is greater need. But pick number two comes and you have the next best thing available. Everything in me sez Burnett would have been a sure impact player here. He would have easily been an improvement as an outside backer. Bullocks I have to work at seeing how he might do that. We are no longer expecting anything out of Bellamy?

The third impact player would should have been the one selected in the pick from trading Howard. Take Brown and Bullocks. Burnett was snapped up by Dallas at the #42 spot. I also think DT Mike Patterson, DT Shaun Cody, CB Corey Webster, LB Odell Thurman, OT Khalif Barnes (2 good OTs!), CB Justin Miller, and LB Channing Crowder are all players that could have been picked with a #31 to #70 selection that would have had immediate impact. Maybe not ProBowl in year one but a definite upgrade over the incumbent.

This was the worst defense in the league last year remember. As good as they might have looked in the last four games they couldn\'t even eek up to number 31. You don\'t have to be a premium player to make an impact on this group.
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Old 04-26-2005, 11:14 PM   #17
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One draft. How many starters?

1 starter. (1st round)

1 role player. (3rd round)

1. backup for depth (2nd round)

1. prospect (5th round)

1. bust (4th round)
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Old 04-27-2005, 08:49 AM   #18
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One draft. How many starters?

IMO, the Saints drafted one to three starters (this season), two to three guys who can be starters long-term, ZERO immediate (this season) \"impact\" players, and one or two potential \"impact\" players long-term.

Brown will start this year, but I don\'t think he\'ll play well enough to be considered an \"impact\" player. To me, an \"impact\" player is a Pro Bowler, or a guy who is extremely solid (top 10 in the league but not a Pro Bowler), or who changes the game by being in, or who changes the team by significantly upgrading a position.

I don\'t think Brown will fit any of those bills THIS season. He\'ll struggle, like all rookies do. He will have Victor Riley moments. By year end I expect that we will all see him as a long-term solution at RT, and a guy who may be a top 10 (\"impact\") eventually, but he won\'t be in 2005.

Both Fincher and Bullocks COULD be starters in 2005, but that\'s mainly b/c our defense is terrible. I doubt either would start many other places. Both COULD develop into solid starters for the Saints, but neither will ever be considered \"impact\" is my bet.

The one guy who has a legitimate shot at being a true \"impact\" player - the guy who could change the Saints most - is Adrian McPherson. That said, I seriously doubt that he\'ll do it in 2005. Likewise, he could just as easily be a bust. However, this guy has rare talent that is above and beyond what any other draft pick has. Likewise, I don\'t know that Brown has talent significantly better than an average NFL tackle. AMac does. What he does with it is a different question.

My guess though - one or two, maybe three, starters this season. One guy in Brown who will be solid for a long time, another guy in Fincher who probably can be solid, and a guy in McPherson who can either be great or nothing, but probably won\'t be much THIS season.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


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he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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Old 04-27-2005, 10:39 AM   #19
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One draft. How many starters?

My reply to this is, we could draft someone in the damn 7th round and they could still have a chance to start on defense. Hell i could have a chance of starting on our defense. I think in each draft you get, one player to step in right away, start and fill a need. After that it is role players and depth, nothing more, nothing less.
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Old 04-27-2005, 11:13 AM   #20
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One draft. How many starters?

Not saying i disagree, but i thought everyone was sayin that Bullocks was to small for SS. Didn\'t D Smith play some SS in Tampa.
Although Bullocks is taller than Smith or Bellamy, he\'s still light for SS in the NFL.

Compare:

Josh Bullocks - 6\'0\" 209 lbs
Dwight Smith - 5\' 10\" 201 lbs
Jay Bellamy - 5\' 11\" 201 lbs
Mel Mitchell - 6\' 1\" 222 lbs
Steve Gleason - 5\' 11\" 212 lbs

The knock on Bullocks is his run defense, and that has me concerned, regardless of whether they go free/strong or left/right. He probably needs to add 10 pounds.

[Edited on 27/4/2005 by LordOfEntropy]
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