MI Potential Trade

jeanpierre · 07-20-2018, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by Beastmode

Title run? I'm looking at dynasty run. Have to see out more than 2ft in front of your face to make that reality.

Beast, we've gotta win one again to start a dynasty...

I'm as fired up as I've been in years about a Saints' roster, but we thought we had a good roster a few years ago...

...and then the wheels came off starting with that three year BS Training Camp at Bushwood Country Club[sic] because Payton liked his GF's hometown...

It's gonna be as much about new team adaptations, individual player adjustments, roster chemistry and messing with that last part now is unwise...

Admit never have been a big fan of Ingram's game, even arguing ad nauseum about his not justifying his draft status, for his first five years...

But going into re-signing him, there's no NFL RB better suited to this Brees offense, to winning the whole f*cking thing than Ingram right now...

At Ingram's age, yes, find a roster replacement this year, which seems on the surface to be what's happening with the additions last year and this...

We're days away from the D-Day of the season - it's a good team with a great Captain (Brees) and good lieutenants - it's happening with this roster, Brother...

Beastmode · 07-20-2018, 07:56 AM

OL and downfield blocking is strong. West, Boston Scott or whoever should have some success. Quite a bit in fact.

I think people are assuming when he returns it will be 2017 again. If things are working well no way that happens. We are not going to kill something working. He will be brought back slowly. If it's working very well and somebody makes a stupid offer we will take it.

That's all I am saying. If that happens what is his value? I don't dislike MI and as stated, I got laughed at for saying we would grab him but have to really look at this situation.

Our greatest strength right now is actually DRAFTING. Without a 1st, or, limited ability to get it back, it won't be a strength next year. Say somebody offers a 3, or 4 with a conditional. Now we can bundle that 4 with a couple more picks and maybe sneak back in 1.

jeanpierre · 07-20-2018, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Beastmode

OL and downfield blocking is strong. West, Boston Scott or whoever should have some success. Quite a bit in fact.

Beast, here's the thing - Ingram is a devastating blocker, rarely missing assignments; have these guys showed in class they know their assignments?

Now, they may be terrific runners, but the offense is predicated on the advantage of misdirection and running multiple plays out of the same set...

Translation: if they can't block & the opposition knows it, then when they're in we're telegraphing run because they can't be trusted to protect Brees...

Originally Posted by Beastmode

I think people are assuming when he returns it will be 2017 again. If things are working well no way that happens. We are not going to kill something working. He will be brought back slowly. If it's working very well and somebo0dy makes a stupid offer we will take it.

You're absolutely right - every season is different. But if you think back to last season, we evolved throughout the season; not every game was @Buffalo...

And in this season, we will evolve, change, adapt so that our offense can keep that first step advantage every game, every play, every matchup...

Ingram will come in fresh; keep bringing up that Seattle playoff loss as a reminder we were unable to run out the clock because of no available RBs...

Originally Posted by Beastmode

That's all I am saying. If that happens what is his value? I don't dislike MI and as stated, I got laughed at for saying we would grab him but have to really look at this situation.

Don't want to jinx us, but the only situation where Ingram becomes more valuable to us in a trade is a total collapse and a contender needs him...

Right now his greatest, maximized value is a New Orleans Saint.

Originally Posted by Beastmode

Our greatest strength right now is actually DRAFTING. Without a 1st, or, limited ability to get it back, it won't be a strength next year. Say somebody offers a 3, or 4 with a conditional. Now we can bundle that 4 with a couple more picks and maybe sneak back in 1.

I'm not ready to say we're past our draft problems as I'm not real happy about Payton jumping in and trading two first round picks for Davenport...

We've had two drafts, 2006 (A-) and 2017 (A+), with the rest of Payton's tenure maybe grabbing one, maybe two roster keepers per year...

But I agree the best, proven method to building a perennial contender as the Steelers, Ravens, Broncos, Patriots seem to do is through good drafts...

K Major · 07-20-2018, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

I'm not ready to say we're past our draft problems as I'm not real happy about Payton jumping in and trading two first round picks for Davenport...

Many dirty bird fans had similar thoughts when they traded up for Julio J. If the Saints front office is confident a player will develop, you do what it takes to get him. Especially a position such as defensive end.

If Davenport develops into the next Cameron Jordan, Julius Peppers or Clowney, no one will talk about what it took to get him 2, 3 years from now. We have gone into last couple of drafts with DE as a priority. Both of our DE's are coming off injuries. Elite pass rushers are difficult to find. Saints won the Jimmy Dickens trade. Saints won the Cooks trade.

Don't forget who was the "mastermind" behind the Cows drafting future HOF DeMarcus Ware . Can't speak for anyone else but I'm fine with the Davenport selection.

It's our time fellas.

Beastmode · 07-20-2018, 11:28 AM

All good points and really too many unknowns. I do find it interesting that we brought in all these RB's and even drafted one. Probably are not even done yet exploring either. My only question was in the event of a trade what could we get?

I think it could go as high as 3 and as low as a 4. Unlikely to happen? I would say 70%-30% not happening /happening as of now so I agree on that point.

jeanpierre · 07-20-2018, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Beastmode

All good points and really too many unknowns. I do find it interesting that we brought in all these RB's and even drafted one. Probably are not even done yet exploring either. My only question was in the event of a trade what could we get?

I think it could go as high as 3 and as low as a 4. Unlikely to happen? I would say 70%-30% not happening /happening as of now so I agree on that point.

Per post, if a trade happened, it'd mean we're likely in a sorry state and value would be commensurate on demand, time of the season, trade partner...

RailBoss · 07-20-2018, 01:37 PM

The clock winds down for all RB's eventually, that's just the way it is.
So Ingram's middle name is Valentino and survived that growing up in Hackensack NJ.
The Kids 28 and still has a few years left, probably the same goes for Drew. The time is
now for the Saints I would keep him in Black & Gold.

Beastmode · 07-20-2018, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by RailBoss

The clock winds down for all RB's eventually, that's just the way it is.
So Ingram's middle name is Valentino and survived that growing up in Hackensack NJ.
The Kids 28 and still has a few years left, probably the same goes for Drew. The time is
now for the Saints I would keep him in Black & Gold.

In 8 months MI will not be a Saint for sure. Brees, about 18 give or take.

Pats do not deal with these situations. They also win a lot. They find the max bell curve of value in most cases and cash out, or, take advantage of situations like Cooks. They used him and spit him out. They also got to the SB. We did not.

AsylumGuido · 07-20-2018, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Beastmode

In 8 months MI will not be a Saint for sure. Brees, about 18 give or take.

Pats do not deal with these situations. They also win a lot. They find the max bell curve of value in most cases and cash out, or, take advantage of situations like Cooks. They used him and spit him out. They also got to the SB. We did not.

No way Brees retires until Brady retires first and Brees owns all of those records. Brees is goal driven and if you have read his book you would know that he'd play five more years if that's what it would take to have those records.

And nobody knows where Ingram will be after 2018, but the Saints remain the leader in the clubhouse.

vpheughan · 07-23-2018, 07:26 AM

The Pats as well as the Saints DIDN'T win either!

07-20-2018, 07:30 AM	#31
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: MI Potential Trade Originally Posted by Beastmode Title run? I'm looking at dynasty run. Have to see out more than 2ft in front of your face to make that reality. Beast, we've gotta win one again to start a dynasty... I'm as fired up as I've been in years about a Saints' roster, but we thought we had a good roster a few years ago... ...and then the wheels came off starting with that three year BS Training Camp at Bushwood Country Club[sic] because Payton liked his GF's hometown... It's gonna be as much about new team adaptations, individual player adjustments, roster chemistry and messing with that last part now is unwise... Admit never have been a big fan of Ingram's game, even arguing ad nauseum about his not justifying his draft status, for his first five years... But going into re-signing him, there's no NFL RB better suited to this Brees offense, to winning the whole f*cking thing than Ingram right now... At Ingram's age, yes, find a roster replacement this year, which seems on the surface to be what's happening with the additions last year and this... We're days away from the D-Day of the season - it's a good team with a great Captain (Brees) and good lieutenants - it's happening with this roster, Brother... turbo_dog, foreverfan and SmashMouth like this.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way... Last edited by jeanpierre; 07-20-2018 at 05:29 PM..

07-20-2018, 07:56 AM	#32
Beastmode 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,126	Re: MI Potential Trade OL and downfield blocking is strong. West, Boston Scott or whoever should have some success. Quite a bit in fact. I think people are assuming when he returns it will be 2017 again. If things are working well no way that happens. We are not going to kill something working. He will be brought back slowly. If it's working very well and somebody makes a stupid offer we will take it. That's all I am saying. If that happens what is his value? I don't dislike MI and as stated, I got laughed at for saying we would grab him but have to really look at this situation. Our greatest strength right now is actually DRAFTING. Without a 1st, or, limited ability to get it back, it won't be a strength next year. Say somebody offers a 3, or 4 with a conditional. Now we can bundle that 4 with a couple more picks and maybe sneak back in 1.
Beastmode 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,126

07-20-2018, 10:01 AM	#33
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: MI Potential Trade Originally Posted by Beastmode OL and downfield blocking is strong. West, Boston Scott or whoever should have some success. Quite a bit in fact. Beast, here's the thing - Ingram is a devastating blocker, rarely missing assignments; have these guys showed in class they know their assignments? Now, they may be terrific runners, but the offense is predicated on the advantage of misdirection and running multiple plays out of the same set... Translation: if they can't block & the opposition knows it, then when they're in we're telegraphing run because they can't be trusted to protect Brees... Originally Posted by Beastmode I think people are assuming when he returns it will be 2017 again. If things are working well no way that happens. We are not going to kill something working. He will be brought back slowly. If it's working very well and somebo0dy makes a stupid offer we will take it. You're absolutely right - every season is different. But if you think back to last season, we evolved throughout the season; not every game was @Buffalo... And in this season, we will evolve, change, adapt so that our offense can keep that first step advantage every game, every play, every matchup... Ingram will come in fresh; keep bringing up that Seattle playoff loss as a reminder we were unable to run out the clock because of no available RBs... Originally Posted by Beastmode That's all I am saying. If that happens what is his value? I don't dislike MI and as stated, I got laughed at for saying we would grab him but have to really look at this situation. Don't want to jinx us, but the only situation where Ingram becomes more valuable to us in a trade is a total collapse and a contender needs him... Right now his greatest, maximized value is a New Orleans Saint. Originally Posted by Beastmode Our greatest strength right now is actually DRAFTING. Without a 1st, or, limited ability to get it back, it won't be a strength next year. Say somebody offers a 3, or 4 with a conditional. Now we can bundle that 4 with a couple more picks and maybe sneak back in 1. I'm not ready to say we're past our draft problems as I'm not real happy about Payton jumping in and trading two first round picks for Davenport... We've had two drafts, 2006 (A-) and 2017 (A+), with the rest of Payton's tenure maybe grabbing one, maybe two roster keepers per year... But I agree the best, proven method to building a perennial contender as the Steelers, Ravens, Broncos, Patriots seem to do is through good drafts...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

07-20-2018, 10:27 AM	#34
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,035 Blog Entries: 3	Re: MI Potential Trade Originally Posted by jeanpierre I'm not ready to say we're past our draft problems as I'm not real happy about Payton jumping in and trading two first round picks for Davenport... Many dirty bird fans had similar thoughts when they traded up for Julio J. If the Saints front office is confident a player will develop, you do what it takes to get him. Especially a position such as defensive end. If Davenport develops into the next Cameron Jordan, Julius Peppers or Clowney, no one will talk about what it took to get him 2, 3 years from now. We have gone into last couple of drafts with DE as a priority. Both of our DE's are coming off injuries. Elite pass rushers are difficult to find. Saints won the Jimmy Dickens trade. Saints won the Cooks trade. Don't forget who was the "mastermind" behind the Cows drafting future HOF DeMarcus Ware . Can't speak for anyone else but I'm fine with the Davenport selection. It's our time fellas. jnormand and AsylumGuido like this.
	“Winning is a habit, but losing is too.” Russell Wilson

07-20-2018, 11:28 AM	#35
Beastmode 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,126	Re: MI Potential Trade All good points and really too many unknowns. I do find it interesting that we brought in all these RB's and even drafted one. Probably are not even done yet exploring either. My only question was in the event of a trade what could we get? I think it could go as high as 3 and as low as a 4. Unlikely to happen? I would say 70%-30% not happening /happening as of now so I agree on that point.
Beastmode 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,126

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07-20-2018, 11:34 AM	#36
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: MI Potential Trade Originally Posted by Beastmode All good points and really too many unknowns. I do find it interesting that we brought in all these RB's and even drafted one. Probably are not even done yet exploring either. My only question was in the event of a trade what could we get? I think it could go as high as 3 and as low as a 4. Unlikely to happen? I would say 70%-30% not happening /happening as of now so I agree on that point. Per post, if a trade happened, it'd mean we're likely in a sorry state and value would be commensurate on demand, time of the season, trade partner...

07-20-2018, 01:37 PM	#37
RailBoss 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Of The Mason Dixon Line Posts: 7,113	Re: MI Potential Trade The clock winds down for all RB's eventually, that's just the way it is. So Ingram's middle name is Valentino and survived that growing up in Hackensack NJ. The Kids 28 and still has a few years left, probably the same goes for Drew. The time is now for the Saints I would keep him in Black & Gold.

07-20-2018, 03:26 PM	#38
Beastmode 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,126	Re: MI Potential Trade Originally Posted by RailBoss The clock winds down for all RB's eventually, that's just the way it is. So Ingram's middle name is Valentino and survived that growing up in Hackensack NJ. The Kids 28 and still has a few years left, probably the same goes for Drew. The time is now for the Saints I would keep him in Black & Gold. In 8 months MI will not be a Saint for sure. Brees, about 18 give or take. Pats do not deal with these situations. They also win a lot. They find the max bell curve of value in most cases and cash out, or, take advantage of situations like Cooks. They used him and spit him out. They also got to the SB. We did not.
Beastmode 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,126

07-20-2018, 04:34 PM	#39
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,394	Re: MI Potential Trade Originally Posted by Beastmode In 8 months MI will not be a Saint for sure. Brees, about 18 give or take. Pats do not deal with these situations. They also win a lot. They find the max bell curve of value in most cases and cash out, or, take advantage of situations like Cooks. They used him and spit him out. They also got to the SB. We did not. No way Brees retires until Brady retires first and Brees owns all of those records. Brees is goal driven and if you have read his book you would know that he'd play five more years if that's what it would take to have those records. And nobody knows where Ingram will be after 2018, but the Saints remain the leader in the clubhouse. SmashMouth likes this.

07-23-2018, 07:26 AM	#40
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,499	Re: MI Potential Trade The Pats as well as the Saints DIDN'T win either!
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,499

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