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-   -   The Big Three will emerge!! (https://blackandgold.com/saints/9114-big-three-will-emerge.html)

phili_mac 05-27-2005 10:36 AM

The Big Three will emerge!!
 
This will be the year for Brooks, Horn, and McAllister! Fans get ready to welcome back a top 10 offensive unit. With the simplification of the playbook, Brooks will be able to just play and not have to think so much. The coaches have been raving about his maturation progress mentally and physically this offseason. He will be ready to be the leader we've been expecting him to be since he became the starter. Next, Horn finally got the money he was due and will prove once again why he was worth it. Joe will put up huge numbers this year because teams will not be able to double him as much with our other two speedsters out there: Stallworth and Henderson (not too mention the "Beer Man" as well). I believe Horn will catch over 100 balls this year and double digit TDs. As for McAllister, he could earn this year's rushing title. I honesty believe that 1800 yards is well within reach. With the upgrade and the beef we've added to the offensive line, McAllister will have massive running lanes. Plus Karney will have had a full year under his belt. Fans, I can't wait!!

saintswhodi 05-27-2005 10:39 AM

Are you guys spawning? haha j/k. Welcome aboard. Love your enthusiasm and I hope every word you have spoken comes to pass, but in all those stats mentioned I saw nothing about the win/loss column. Undefeated? Superbowl? Playoffs? Division title? Give me the full prediction my man, and again, welcome.

tiggerpolice 05-27-2005 11:27 AM

Quote:

This will be the year for Brooks, Horn, and McAllister! Fans get ready to welcome back a top 10 offensive unit. With the simplification of the playbook, Brooks will be able to just play and not have to think so much. The coaches have been raving about his maturation progress mentally and physically this offseason. He will be ready to be the leader we've been expecting him to be since he became the starter. Next, Horn finally got the money he was due and will prove once again why he was worth it. Joe will put up huge numbers this year because teams will not be able to double him as much with our other two speedsters out there: Stallworth and Henderson (not too mention the "Beer Man" as well). I believe Horn will catch over 100 balls this year and double digit TDs. As for McAllister, he could earn this year's rushing title. I honesty believe that 1800 yards is well within reach. With the upgrade and the beef we've added to the offensive line, McAllister will have massive running lanes. Plus Karney will have had a full year under his belt.

I AGREE..THIS IS GONNA BE A BIG YEAR FOR US....I THINK OUR OFFENSE WILL PLAY LIKE WE AAL KNOW THEY CAN....AND THE D COME UP AND PLAY STRONG......THE SUPRISE OF THE SEASON WILL BE OUR LB'S PLAY...THEY WILL PLAY BIG....FISHER, FINCHER, ALLEN, WATSON, COLBEY ......MAN I CAN'T WAIT.....

tiggerpolice 05-27-2005 11:29 AM

OH AND I PREDICT 11-5 MAYBE EVEN 12-4......GO SAINTS

Zydeco 05-27-2005 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiggerpolice
OH AND I PREDICT 11-5 MAYBE EVEN 12-4......GO SAINTS

13-3?

tiggerpolice 05-27-2005 12:07 PM

even better

coastalkid 05-27-2005 03:15 PM

Dude's will yall share some of what you're smoking? Don't get me wrong I am upbeat too but our defense has got a LONG ways to go yet. We hear this bruuhaa every year. Brooks must prove it on the field this year. Deuce will do what he does and have a great year. I fully agree there. Horn will also put up his usual best. You know what you got with both of them. After that.....we'll see what Stallworth does...again. We'll feel the loss of Pathon if someone doesn't step up big. If not it will limit Horn's success some.
But I'd just love a 11-5 season but at this point (before camp) I'll sit on my 9-7

Danno 05-27-2005 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coastalkid
Dude's will yall share some of what you're smoking? Don't get me wrong I am upbeat too but our defense has got a LONG ways to go yet. We hear this bruuhaa every year.

Well I don't wanna spread any unwanted optimism on the poop parade, but Atlanta's defense went from dead last to 14th in one season with minimum personnel changes. Why can't we?

BlackandBlue 05-27-2005 03:46 PM

Quote:

Atlanta's defense went from dead last to 14th in one season with minimum personnel changes. Why can't we?
Hmmm, a defensive minded head coach, maybe?

blackwidows 05-27-2005 03:53 PM

A few question marks:

Can the D stop the run?

Will Brooks read coverages better and not roll back 15 yards and try to out juke everyone?

Will Brooks throw it away or dump it off to the back if no running lane is visible?

Will Brooks be able to find the running lane?

Well all and all i'm concerned about whether the D will be able to stop the run.

Also will Duece be able to keep his fumbling under control?

10-6 manly because with the additions to the offensive line the Saints should be able to keep the opposing defense on the feild while the Saints D rest.

I must say also I don't think the Saints are as good in the secondary as the coches think the Saints are.

Also why no cornerback in the draft this year or TE?

Danno 05-27-2005 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackandBlue
Quote:

Atlanta's defense went from dead last to 14th in one season with minimum personnel changes. Why can't we?
Hmmm, a defensive minded head coach, maybe?

Jim L Mora?
The one everyone ridiculed and laughed their arses off at when Atlanta hired him?
That Jim Mora?

WhoDat 05-27-2005 04:04 PM

This is getting fun. Who needs Billy? LOL

16-0. That's my prediction.

Aaron Brooks: 412 of 424, 5873 yards, 97 TDs, 1 INT, 0 Fumbles, 153 QB Rating
Deuce McAllister: 304 carries for 3,700 yards. 43 TDs, 1 Fumble.
Joe Horn: 169 catches, 3,128 yards, 53 TDs.

Sounds about right to me, how about you guys? Oh, and Saints defensive rank you ask? First, of course. All 11 guys go to the Pro Bowl, led by Sullivan who is inducted into the Hall of Fame, despite still being an active player.

Danno 05-27-2005 04:25 PM

Yeah, since we're taking shots,,,
1. Deuce comes in fat, (again). Gets hurt (again) in week 3 and Stecker/Smith are our RB's for the whole season
2. Brooks tears ACL diving for 1st down, Kingsbury enters as our starter in week 4.
3. Horns knees and Donte's hammy's resurface and Henderson proves he's not ready. WR's-Talman Gardner, Michael Lewis and Thyrone Anderson are now our starters.
4. Bryan Young gets hurt, forces Green/Jefferson/Leisle into starting roles.
5. Allen regresses and Hodge enters picture. Ugh.
6. Bockwalts progress was all hype. Starts the season at 218 lbs. Derrick Rodgers becomes starter.

0-16, yep. No question.

Then if we miraculously finish 8-8 with
QB-Kingsbury
RB-Antowain Smith
WR-Talman Gardner
WR-Thyrone Anderson
WR-Michael Lewis

I can say Ha-Ha. I told ya'll this was an 8-8 team". Proclaim myself as the poster of realism among the ignorant and naive.

BlackandBlue 05-27-2005 04:28 PM

Quote:

The one everyone ridiculed and laughed their arses off at when Atlanta hired him?
I believe we as Saint's fans were the one's that were laughing.
Who's laughing now?

Danno 05-27-2005 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackandBlue
Quote:

The one everyone ridiculed and laughed their arses off at when Atlanta hired him?
I believe we as Saint's fans were the one's that were laughing.
Who's laughing now?

I thought it was a good hire and was ridiculed. But I'm used to it.

I believe Atlanta fans are the ones laughing now. And I have a really good idea who they're laughing at too.

natedogg02 05-27-2005 05:07 PM

Do you guys wonder if Whodat and Danno are Saint fans or not? (i know i wonder)

FireVenturi 05-27-2005 06:06 PM

I hope all these 12-4 predictions are true, but here is some realistic syrum guys. 9-7 and miss the playoffs by one game. the offense can be in the top 5, but if the D still suks then so will our record.

jnormand 05-27-2005 10:57 PM

While I agree the Saints will be much improved this year, there are some question marks. Brooks isn't bad, but he gets this hype almost every offseason. Look at last year with Montana coming in to groom him. The coaches always say he is being more of a leader or is having a great off-season. I hope this year is the year for him. As far as the D goes.....it will be improved. I'm hoping within the top 15. The offense will be better. With the O-Line re-vamped, Deuce should get some good running lanes and AB should have some more time to throw the ball. The LB's are a big, big question mark. I hope Fincher ends up being a steal and Bockwoldt and Watson come alive. I think the Saints could have a 9-7 or maybe a 10-6 season. Playoffs----lets see how the cards play out. I go into this coming season as playoff contenders.

For the record, Danno and Whodat are Saints fans. That's why they are here. Some people don't have as much confidence in the team because the team hasn't earned it. Can't blame em.

natedogg02 05-28-2005 02:41 PM

I know deep down there fans. I just dont understand always shooting down any positive about the team and the players.
We got the best team we've ever had and all you hear is AB suks, Deuce suks, the team suks, coaching staff suks. You'd think after watching all them years of us suking, people would like the team we have now. Out of all the years, we have the best chance to do something now, so i dont understand the hate.

jnormand 05-28-2005 07:12 PM

Natedogg it's not hate. Like I said, people are tired of hearing the same things over and over year after year. Fans need to see some results. While I consider myself an optimist and have a very positive and hopeful outlook before every season and almost every game, I even have to admit that this organization tends to make a lot of excuses and dosen't deliver enough. I think the Saints will be very good this year, but other people really need to see results to be believe. Like I said before, you can't blame some fans for being a little fed up with all the lolly gagging that goes on. Just don't take anything personal and keep your expectations and hopes high. You may be disgruntled at the end of the season but I think it's a lot more fun to have high hopes than no hope at all.

Like I said before, this team really needs to earn respect from its fans. Until the Saints show they are the real deal, the fan base will be split. The Saints can be frustrating at times.

saintswhodi 05-28-2005 07:45 PM

Quote:

The Saints can be frustrating at times.
And those times are consistently and always. :wink:

TheDeuce 05-29-2005 02:41 AM

Quote:

I agree the Saints will be much improved this year
I have found myself thinking this same exact thing ever since the beginning of free agency when we snagged Jermaine Mayberry and Dwight Smith. But lately I have stepped back and taken a realistic look at how much we have truly "improved." For a defense ranking dead last in the NFL we have replaced only one starter (maybe two if Fincher snags the starting MLB job). We continue to put our hopes into unrpoven players (Watson), 7th rounders (Bock), or failures (Sullivan), just praying that maybe they will step up and do something this season. But I just don't understand this approach. I look around the NFL at teams who were so very close to reaching their goals but fell short (just like the Saints), and I see the Minnesota Vikings who engaged in one of the most dramatic team makeovers in recent memory. The Vikes are a team who were close to getting to the Super Bowl but they just needed a little bit more. Instead of sitting around and picking up a couple of players in FA, they were aggressive, they took the initiative and they have given themselves a better chance to succeed with better defensive players.

But who knows what is going to happen. Maybe not being active in free agency and making some of the questionable choices in this year's draft will be good for the Saints. I am optimistic about this upcoming season; I'm predicting 9-7 or 10-6, but I can't seem to block out that little voice inside my head that asks me why I think that this year is going to be any different than the last few years. I try to answer by starting with "This year will be different because we added...." but my reply ends shortly after that. I just don't think we have really improved as much as a lot of people think. I think our offense will be improved quite a bit, but our defense still (in my opinion) sucks hard. And all we did was pick up one safety. Improvement? Maybe. But a lot of fans seem to believe that our 32nd ranked defense will magically become good; I just can't understand that because we haven't done anything in the offseason that would prove me wrong.

jnormand 05-29-2005 03:53 AM

Deuce, I don't think anyone thinks the D is going to be "good" so to say. The word "improved" probably comes to mind more than anything. With the pick-up of Smith and the way the D played the last 4 games gives alot of people some hope. Let's face it, McKenzie will be with us from game 1 this year. Even when he started playing, he didn't know the playbook as well as he needed to. Also the young core of LB's that played the last 4 games did well considering the circumstances. You have to take the good with the bad, but I really doubt the defense will be anywhere near what it was the first 12 games. I think the D may be in the middle of the pack statistically. I don't think the D will magically be better, just more prepared, better equipped personel wise and more of a team. Let's all just hope they are better than they were last year or we are in for a long season.

TheSniper 05-29-2005 11:16 PM

It's all a big "IF".

IF....Brooks doesn't throw the ball backwards more than forwards.

IF...Deuce stays healthy and helps us control the ball.

IF...Our defense plays like it did at the END of last season rather than the BEGINNING.

Frankly, we have the offensive talent to compete with anyone...IF we play up to that talent.

Really. everything depends on the defense. It's SO important they play well at the beginning of the season.

Prediction..9-7 (realistically) with the potential for more.

jnormand 05-30-2005 04:20 AM

Sniper, I agree with you. I do think that every NFL team has the "IF Factor", though.

New England could go to the SB again:

"IF" Tom Brady plays like he did last season and doesn't get injured.

"IF" Corey Dillon can stay healthy and continue to contribute.

"IF" The Pat D continues to be dominent.

I'm not disagreeing with you, however, I think every team has similar "IF Factors". I think every team has the ability or possibility to go into the post season (Well, almost every team). It's wether or not the "IF"'s come into play.

The Saints have the ablility and talent to make it into the post season, it's just all the "IF Factor's" that come into play during the year.

I understand that some teams' problems can be substantially less than that of the Saints, but they are still a factor in every game of every season.

Hopefully the Saints can execute well enough this year to go to the playoffs.

saintswhodi 05-30-2005 02:01 PM

IF we are going to compare another team's IF factor to the Saints, can it not be the defending Superbowl Champs and winners of 3 of the last 4? Does anyone think New England would be in as bad a situation as us IF they didn't make the playoffs next year? Is their team moving? Would the fans give up? Would they stop selling out their stadium? Would their coach be fired? Would their owner show a modicum of concern? Are they questioning their starting QB? Are they questioning their defense? I have to disagree with the notion their IFs have anywhere near the weight of ours. We are iffing just to make the playoffs, their IFs are IF they can repeat as Superbowl champ. Slight difference.

FireVenturi 05-30-2005 04:49 PM

thx, whodi, we should not even be in the same book as the Pats much-less the same paragraph!!!

jnormand 05-31-2005 12:34 AM

Ok, ok, good point whodi. Bad example by me and good argument by you. Point made bro. :wink:

WhoDat 05-31-2005 09:00 AM

Quote:

We got the best team we've ever had and all you hear is AB suks, Deuce suks, the team suks, coaching staff suks. You'd think after watching all them years of us suking, people would like the team we have now. Out of all the years, we have the best chance to do something now, so i dont understand the hate.
The only thing worse than being bad is having the talent to be great while being mired in inconsistency and mediocrity. You want to be positive about the Saints this season, go ahead. There are certainly reasons to be.... but then, weren't there reasons to be positive last season? The season before? The season before that?

I have a hard time with people who come to the site every offseason and tell me how the teams has vastly improved and how this year every thing is going to be differnt. This year 11-5 is realistic. A year later after another 8-8 season they're telling me about how this is the year. Yeah, heard that one before. Not buying this time. Let the team prove it on the field, b/c ultimately, what you think doesn't matter. What the team does on the field is the only thing that is important. Depending on how you look at it, this team is either 8-8 or 0-0 right now, but either way they're exactly average.

saintswhodi 05-31-2005 09:05 AM

Your example was fine J, it's the team you chose that I had a problem with. If you used, say, the Rams or the vikes, teams that barely eeked us out the playoffs last year with similar records, that's all good. Both have lots of questions going into the off-season. Like for the vikes, it's:

IF the receivers they have can pick up Randy's slack.

IF Culpepper wasn't a product of Moss

IF all the new players they got on D can gel

IF the new ownership group approves of the coaches, who are all on one year contracts

IF their stadium issue gets resolved(new ownership wants an outdoor stadium, in MN? Huh? Those people are more used to a dome than us).

IF they can get one of their RBs to carry the slack

And for the Rams it would be:

IF their offensive line can avoid the huge failures of last year(they were worse than ours).

IF Steven Jackson can carry the load Marshall used to as the featured back in their offense

IF the new LBs they brought in will help their defense

IF Aeneas Williams has anything left

IF Mike Martz' job is secure.

IF they will get anything out of oft injured Jimmy Kennedy, who they took 11th or 12th in the Sully draft.

IF their young corners develop.

IF anyone picks up Isaac Bruce's slack should he start to slow down.

So I agree with you totally every team has IFs, just some team's IFs are a little more in line with ours, and some IMO we shouldn't even touch. Your point was fine.

Danno 05-31-2005 09:32 AM

Quote:

I have a hard time with people who come to the site every offseason and tell me how the teams has vastly improved and how this year every thing is going to be differnt. This year 11-5 is realistic. A year later after another 8-8 season they're telling me about how this is the year. Yeah, heard that one before.
And every year those same posters you have a hard time with have realistic analysis as to why this team should be good. If those reasons were invalid, we wouldn't be labeled an underachieving team would we? This team IS improved (maybe not drastically, but I don't recall many who said that), and this team should be around 10-6 or 11-5. Why not discuss it? Oh, and didn't you predict 10-6 this year? Again?

Quote:

Let the team prove it on the field, b/c ultimately, what you think doesn't matter.
The exact same thing could be said about those who predict 6-10 or 8-8 as well as 10-6. So I guess we shouldn't even speculate about the upcoming season at all? No predictions, no speculations, no anticipation until they prove something on the field? Uh, I think thats one of the main reasons forums exist. Should we stop discussing this team completely until the Sunday after the first game? Thats not much fun is it?

Personally I don't have a problem with anyone who thinks we're gonna be good, if they back it up with good reasoning.
I also don't have a problem with the opposite, IF they back it up with valid reasoning. OK maybe just a little problem, but mostly with the "we suck, because we suck" reasoning, or more specifically a lack valid reasoning.

I think we all agree the coaching is the primary weakness with this team. I personally think its possible for the players to overcome it also.
Especially if the coaches just let these guys play, like they did toward the end of last season. Anyone else notice when we simplified things, we played better? Well my opinion of simplifying things meant less coaching interference and just let the dogs loose. I hope it continues into 2005.

WhoDat 05-31-2005 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno
And every year those same posters you have a hard time with have realistic analysis as to why this team should be good. If those reasons were invalid, we wouldn't be labeled an underachieving team would we? This team IS improved (maybe not drastically, but I don't recall many who said that), and this team should be around 10-6 or 11-5. Why not discuss it? Oh, and didn't you predict 10-6 this year? Again?

No. I said that they are 8-8 until they prove otherwise. I did say 10-6 last year. 8-8 the year before. 9-7 the year before that.

The issue has never been, IMO, whether this team has had the talent to achieve. In fact, I've been blasted on this site by a former poster for suggesting that the Saints are the most talented team in the NFC South, and one of the most talented in the NFC. I went on record as saying that the team needed (and still needs) to upgrade at 3 to 4 key positions, and then they would have the talent to be a Super Bowl contender.

But being talented and being successful are entirely different things. This team has been very talented and unsuccessful for the last 4 years. So, as I said, the argument that this team is talented therefore they will be successful this year doesn't do it for me. They need to show consistency and desire. Things that you can talk about, but can only really be seen on the field.

As for the past 4 years, if you want to say that they team was talented enough to be a playoff team, but bad luck has kept them from taking that last step, go right ahead. I think that completely ignores relevant problems with the team. Thus, we're back to my point. There are problems with this team that don't have to do with talent. The team already had enough talent to make the playoffs. Adding even more is not likely to mean much if other problems aren't addressed. Would you agree that it doesn't make sense to add horsepower to a Ferrari with two flat tires and a blind driver? Maybe I used the wrong terminology. My point is not that the Saints have made bad decisions. I do not dispute that the team seems even more talented... but my point remains that they've seemed even more talented every offseason. I need to see consistency, leadership, desire, and coaching. Those are the key elements that have been missing.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno
Personally I don't have a problem with anyone who thinks we're gonna be good, if they back it up with good reasoning.
I also don't have a problem with the opposite, IF they back it up with valid reasoning. OK maybe just a little problem, but mostly with the "we suck, because we suck" reasoning, or more specifically a lack valid reasoning.

I think we all agree the coaching is the primary weakness with this team. I personally think its possible for the players to overcome it also.
Especially if the coaches just let these guys play, like they did toward the end of last season. Anyone else notice when we simplified things, we played better? Well my opinion of simplifying things meant less coaching interference and just let the dogs loose. I hope it continues into 2005.

I hope so too, but I draw a very clear distinction between what I hope will happen and what I rationally conclude is most likely to happen. Maybe Haslett finally has it right... or maybe this is just another new scheme and another new strategy and more new coaches that will fair just like all the others he has added or changed every other offseason. I don't know. I HOPE you're right Danno. But if I were putting money on the line, I'd bet you're wrong. That's just the way it is. If that makes me pessimistic in your eyes, fine.

Danno 05-31-2005 12:10 PM

Quote:

As for the past 4 years, if you want to say that they team was talented enough to be a playoff team, but bad luck has kept them from taking that last step, go right ahead. I think that completely ignores relevant problems with the team.
LOL, Where did I even suggest this? Old tricks my friend...

You may want to say that Deuce McAllister is the worst RB in the league, But I think thats short-sighted and ignores the problem.

You may want to say Joe Horn has just been fortunate to have a QB lock on him all year, but I think Joe's a quality WR.

You may want to have AB's lovechild, but I think that ignores the real problems with this team.

This is fun, and each sentence is technically correct.

WhoDat 05-31-2005 01:45 PM

Wow Danno, you've been taking things awful personally lately. I was using "you" generally, not specifically you, as in Danno, I'm talking to you. Sorry for the confusion. Please continue with your standard over-reaction post. (That you was directed at you :) ).

Danno 05-31-2005 01:47 PM

Well you quoted me, then responded. I thought it was directed at me, since my post was in your quote.

But if anyone's gonna over-react, its gonna be me dammit.

WhoDat 05-31-2005 01:58 PM

No argument there.

jnormand 05-31-2005 10:52 PM

Yeah, I used the wrong team to compare. I just used the Pats because they were the first team I thought about. You explained my point better than I did Whodi. Thanks bro.

saintswhodi 06-01-2005 08:37 AM

Well, I knew what you were saying J, so it's all good. You are still right that all teams have questions. Never disagreed with that. And I wouldn't necessarily say you used the "wrong" team, I just thought your argument would work better if you used a team on a similar level with us. When we win the superbowl next year, you can use the Pats all you want with no disagreement!!! :D Whoa, holy crap, when did I learn to channel Danno? j/k :P

AllSaints 06-01-2005 07:16 PM

Well know that we dont have a cancer on our offensive line and i think you all no who im talking about. VICTOR RILEY DING DING DING
This guy would give use offsides penaltys probly averaged about 3 a game. sometimes one after another. Well we can all sigh we dont have to this anymore OFFSIDES 67 OFFENCE 5 YARD PENALTY REPLAY 1ST DOWN! and with the fantastic 3 DEUCE BROOKS HORN it think we need to add some more ppl to it. if they can come threw. I am still waiting for Stallworth to come out of his shell. BOO WILLAIMS what happened?Devery im expecting bigs things from you. Karney this guy should be great. our offence probly will be in the top 10 our defence if they play good like we all saw at the end of the season then i think we can pull a top 15 that would probly mean playoffs and playoffs wont be easy this year with panthers falcons and bucs in our division but i think if we start off good this season like 6-0 or something like that lol then we can finish strong and maybe bring this franchise to a SB. But it is a long ways away we still have preseason...


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