Gandy refuses pay cut.

FrenzyFan · 06-23-2005, 09:24 AM

Fifth, imo

Add Stabler to the list aforementioned by 08

stockman311 · 06-23-2005, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

SO WRONG!!! I'll give you average but if you compare him over all Saints QB of the past, how does he compare is that I was getting at.

Give me a break! If your comparing a dooche to a turd sandwich I guess I would rather have the dooche. Comparing Brooks to any other Saints QB is a horrible arguement for whether Brooks is an underachiever. The Saints have never had good QB's. How does that affect what Brooks has done to date?
With the natural skills he has he should be putting up at the very least Daunte Culpepper, Donovan McNabb numbers. Hell I would even take Jake Delhomme numbers, but oh wait that was the Overachiever the Saints let go to stick with Mr. Backwards pass.

Euphoria · 06-23-2005, 10:48 AM

The Saints have never had good QB's. How does that affect what Brooks has done to date?

uhm do you read? I am comparing Brooks with past Saints QB's... mean he is the best QB we have had. I am not worred about the likes of Culpepper or McNabb, we have never had QB's of that caliber, the first step in that direction it seems was the likes of Manning and or Brooks. I know you're one of the types that will use whatever you can to dismantle an argument to fit your side, to hell with the facts or what someone elses point is or even comparinsons... "he sucks compared to Culpepper", when the original point is he is the best thing we have had over 38 years!

Kristomac · 06-23-2005, 10:53 AM

AB should never be measured by how many yards he passes for...he passes for a lot of yards because he has to come from behind so often...to no avail at least 50% of the time.

That being the case...isn't it wise to back the main guy protecting your blind side while you're trying to find someone to pass to?

saintswhodi · 06-23-2005, 11:17 AM

uhm do you read? I am comparing Brooks with past Saints QB's... mean he is the best QB we have had. I am not worred about the likes of Culpepper or McNabb, we have never had QB's of that caliber, the first step in that direction it seems was the likes of Manning and or Brooks. I know you're one of the types that will use whatever you can to dismantle an argument to fit your side, to hell with the facts or what someone elses point is or even comparinsons... "he sucks compared to Culpepper", when the original point is he is the best thing we have had over 38 years

Take it easy bro. You missed the whole point of the guy's post. Don't let AB love blind you. First off, he is saying, and this really can't be argued, outside of Archie, the Saints have had no great QBs. Period. End of discussion. Then Brooks comes along, the Saints have a high powered offense, he puts up some good stats while making the dumbest mistakes you have ever seen, and fans, such as yourself, wanna annoint him into the Saints Hall of Fame(by the way, go take a look at that list for QBs). Brooks is in no way, shape, or form better than Archie. With the teams Archie had, it's a wonder he is still able to walk. He took a beating. And wasn't he league MVP one year? Not even close. If you wanna go on heart and emotion, Archie, Hebert and Fourcade have Brooks beaten in those departments. If you wanna go by stats, Everett put up some pretty good ones the two years he was here.

Second, he was comparing AB's natural ability to Culpepper and McNabb's, not his stats are legacy. This should have been apparent in his statement:

With the natural skills he has he should be putting up at the very least Daunte Culpepper, Donovan McNabb numbers.

but ya never know. You used it as an attempt to compare AB gamewise to Culpepper and McNabb, which it obviously was not.

Noone denies AB has nice numbers, but when have the Saints EVER had an offense like this for any prior QB? Ever? Nope never. So his basic argument that saying Brooks is the best we ever had is not really saying anything at all is true. Deuce could be the best RB. Joe could be the best receiver. Willie was the best LT. McKenzie is the best corner. See the trend? It's like saying the TC Scion is a better model than the Ab. Well, Scion has only had 3 models, so are you really saying much if all are crap compared to Lexus?

WhoDat · 06-23-2005, 11:27 AM

I have a question Euph...

How are you comparing Brooks now to QBs of the past?

I mean, saying that his numbers are better now then Mannings were 30 years ago, for example, isn't really fair is it? I mean, Kordell Stewart's numbers are probably better than Archie's, but that's b/c the game has changed. I wouldn't call Stewart better than Archie, would you?

So then the question is, how do Brooks' numbers compare to current QBs' versus past Saints QBs' as compared to the league average then. Make sense?

I mean, if AB normally has a QB Rating of 80, and that ranks him 20th in the league on average, and Archie had a career QB Rating of 65, but that ranked him 10th on average, I'd say Archie was a better QB, b/c for his era, relative to his peers, he scored better... wouldn't you agree?

In that case, isn't what AB does relative to Culpepper or Manning relevant?

saintz08 · 06-23-2005, 11:30 AM

Fifth, imo

Add Stabler to the list aforementioned by 08

Stabler was a good quarterback , but came to New Orleans a little too late in the career to make it in the top 5 quarterbacks in New Orleans . I always get stuck between Brooks and Kilmer in the 5th position .

Euphoria · 06-23-2005, 11:35 AM

Ok then... if you want to go there then rank the past Saints QB's league ranking in there era to Brooks in his era. You'll see that Brooks in the top ten overall in categories in yards TD's what have you. I think Manning was the only QB that we had to rank in the top 10. Brooks has been ranked in the top ten consistantly.

Just go with stats... and leave your heart out of it and only while they played for the Saints.

saintz08 · 06-23-2005, 12:06 PM

Ok then... if you want to go there then rank the past Saints QB's league ranking in there era to Brooks in his era. You'll see that Brooks in the top ten overall in categories in yards TD's what have you. I think Manning was the only QB that we had to rank in the top 10. Brooks has been ranked in the top ten consistantly.

Just go with stats... and leave your heart out of it and only while they played for the Saints.

Already have .

Brooks is no. 4

saintswhodi · 06-23-2005, 12:41 PM

Let's give Euph a break. As he points out, Aaron Brooks is on his way to holding some very important all time Saints records for a QB. Just counting 2000-2003, he was already SECOND on the all tiem fumbles list. Only 20 behind Archie, who had 8 years and the worst line in the history of the NFL to help him have a higher number. You go Aaron. they should prob add the 12 or so from this year soon. Also in those 3 years, Aaron has made his way to 5th on the all time INT list. This is just for stats 2000-2003 mind you, and he didn't even have a full season in 2000. So as Aaron heads towards these important milestones in team history, let's all give him the support he deserves. He has achieved these numbers with help from the best offense we have ever had in the team's history. You go Aaron.

06-23-2005, 09:24 AM	#21
FrenzyFan 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 406	Fifth, imo Add Stabler to the list aforementioned by 08
FrenzyFan 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 406

06-23-2005, 10:38 AM	#22
stockman311 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,137	Originally Posted by Euphoria SO WRONG!!! I'll give you average but if you compare him over all Saints QB of the past, how does he compare is that I was getting at. Give me a break! If your comparing a dooche to a turd sandwich I guess I would rather have the dooche. Comparing Brooks to any other Saints QB is a horrible arguement for whether Brooks is an underachiever. The Saints have never had good QB's. How does that affect what Brooks has done to date? With the natural skills he has he should be putting up at the very least Daunte Culpepper, Donovan McNabb numbers. Hell I would even take Jake Delhomme numbers, but oh wait that was the Overachiever the Saints let go to stick with Mr. Backwards pass.

06-23-2005, 10:48 AM	#23
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	The Saints have never had good QB's. How does that affect what Brooks has done to date? uhm do you read? I am comparing Brooks with past Saints QB's... mean he is the best QB we have had. I am not worred about the likes of Culpepper or McNabb, we have never had QB's of that caliber, the first step in that direction it seems was the likes of Manning and or Brooks. I know you're one of the types that will use whatever you can to dismantle an argument to fit your side, to hell with the facts or what someone elses point is or even comparinsons... "he sucks compared to Culpepper", when the original point is he is the best thing we have had over 38 years!
	E U P H O R I A

06-23-2005, 10:53 AM	#24
Kristomac Registered Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 92	well... AB should never be measured by how many yards he passes for...he passes for a lot of yards because he has to come from behind so often...to no avail at least 50% of the time. That being the case...isn't it wise to back the main guy protecting your blind side while you're trying to find someone to pass to?
Kristomac Registered Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 92

06-23-2005, 11:17 AM	#25
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	uhm do you read? I am comparing Brooks with past Saints QB's... mean he is the best QB we have had. I am not worred about the likes of Culpepper or McNabb, we have never had QB's of that caliber, the first step in that direction it seems was the likes of Manning and or Brooks. I know you're one of the types that will use whatever you can to dismantle an argument to fit your side, to hell with the facts or what someone elses point is or even comparinsons... "he sucks compared to Culpepper", when the original point is he is the best thing we have had over 38 years Take it easy bro. You missed the whole point of the guy's post. Don't let AB love blind you. First off, he is saying, and this really can't be argued, outside of Archie, the Saints have had no great QBs. Period. End of discussion. Then Brooks comes along, the Saints have a high powered offense, he puts up some good stats while making the dumbest mistakes you have ever seen, and fans, such as yourself, wanna annoint him into the Saints Hall of Fame(by the way, go take a look at that list for QBs). Brooks is in no way, shape, or form better than Archie. With the teams Archie had, it's a wonder he is still able to walk. He took a beating. And wasn't he league MVP one year? Not even close. If you wanna go on heart and emotion, Archie, Hebert and Fourcade have Brooks beaten in those departments. If you wanna go by stats, Everett put up some pretty good ones the two years he was here. Second, he was comparing AB's natural ability to Culpepper and McNabb's, not his stats are legacy. This should have been apparent in his statement: With the natural skills he has he should be putting up at the very least Daunte Culpepper, Donovan McNabb numbers. but ya never know. You used it as an attempt to compare AB gamewise to Culpepper and McNabb, which it obviously was not. Noone denies AB has nice numbers, but when have the Saints EVER had an offense like this for any prior QB? Ever? Nope never. So his basic argument that saying Brooks is the best we ever had is not really saying anything at all is true. Deuce could be the best RB. Joe could be the best receiver. Willie was the best LT. McKenzie is the best corner. See the trend? It's like saying the TC Scion is a better model than the Ab. Well, Scion has only had 3 models, so are you really saying much if all are crap compared to Lexus?

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06-23-2005, 11:27 AM	#26
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	I have a question Euph... How are you comparing Brooks now to QBs of the past? I mean, saying that his numbers are better now then Mannings were 30 years ago, for example, isn't really fair is it? I mean, Kordell Stewart's numbers are probably better than Archie's, but that's b/c the game has changed. I wouldn't call Stewart better than Archie, would you? So then the question is, how do Brooks' numbers compare to current QBs' versus past Saints QBs' as compared to the league average then. Make sense? I mean, if AB normally has a QB Rating of 80, and that ranks him 20th in the league on average, and Archie had a career QB Rating of 65, but that ranked him 10th on average, I'd say Archie was a better QB, b/c for his era, relative to his peers, he scored better... wouldn't you agree? In that case, isn't what AB does relative to Culpepper or Manning relevant?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

06-23-2005, 11:30 AM	#27
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Fifth, imo Add Stabler to the list aforementioned by 08 Stabler was a good quarterback , but came to New Orleans a little too late in the career to make it in the top 5 quarterbacks in New Orleans . I always get stuck between Brooks and Kilmer in the 5th position .
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

06-23-2005, 11:35 AM	#28
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Ok then... if you want to go there then rank the past Saints QB's league ranking in there era to Brooks in his era. You'll see that Brooks in the top ten overall in categories in yards TD's what have you. I think Manning was the only QB that we had to rank in the top 10. Brooks has been ranked in the top ten consistantly. Just go with stats... and leave your heart out of it and only while they played for the Saints.

06-23-2005, 12:06 PM	#29
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Ok then... if you want to go there then rank the past Saints QB's league ranking in there era to Brooks in his era. You'll see that Brooks in the top ten overall in categories in yards TD's what have you. I think Manning was the only QB that we had to rank in the top 10. Brooks has been ranked in the top ten consistantly. Just go with stats... and leave your heart out of it and only while they played for the Saints. Already have . Brooks is no. 4
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

06-23-2005, 12:41 PM	#30
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Let's give Euph a break. As he points out, Aaron Brooks is on his way to holding some very important all time Saints records for a QB. Just counting 2000-2003, he was already SECOND on the all tiem fumbles list. Only 20 behind Archie, who had 8 years and the worst line in the history of the NFL to help him have a higher number. You go Aaron. they should prob add the 12 or so from this year soon. Also in those 3 years, Aaron has made his way to 5th on the all time INT list. This is just for stats 2000-2003 mind you, and he didn't even have a full season in 2000. So as Aaron heads towards these important milestones in team history, let's all give him the support he deserves. He has achieved these numbers with help from the best offense we have ever had in the team's history. You go Aaron.