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tiggerpolice 06-25-2005 11:12 PM

NOTES, QUOTES
 
NOTES, QUOTES

—According to annual rankings compiled by the Dallas Morning News, the Saints' special teams ranked second in the NFL in 2004.

All 32 league teams are ranked in 22 different areas and assigned points for their standing, with one point for the best team going on down to 32 points for the worst team in each category. The team with the low score wins.

The Buffalo Bills won this year's title with a composite score of 232 points, 43 points ahead of the Saints. The Bills' special teams are coached by Bobby April, a Louisiana native and former Saints assistant.

The Saints finished first in the Dallas Morning News rankings in 2002 when Al Everest was voted NFL special teams coach of the year by his peers.

—It's still early, but rookie cornerback Dwight Ellick made quite an impression on the Saints' coaching staff during their workouts this spring and could be a strong candidate to earn a spot on the practice squad.

Ellick, an undrafted free agent from Notre Dame, is a former Florida state high school sprint champion. His time of 4.37 seconds in the 40-yard dash makes him one of the speediest players on the roster.

—Now that the team's off-season work has concluded, Saints General Manager Mickey Loomis, director of player personnel Rick Mueller and senior football administrator Russ Ball will begin working to get their draft picks signed and to training camp on July 28.

The Saints have been allotted a rookie pool of $3,606,940 by the league office to spend on the seven selections they made in the April draft.



http://www.usatoday.com/sports/footb...aints/home.htm

FireVenturi 06-26-2005 07:46 PM

if only we had the equivalent of AL Everest on Defense?

WhoDat 06-27-2005 09:40 AM

Quote:

The Saints have been allotted a rookie pool of $3,606,940 by the league office to spend on the seven selections they made in the April draft.
What?

saintswhodi 06-27-2005 09:49 AM

That's the max they can spend on signing rookies, and they still need to be under the cap. Last I heard, we had about 1 mil in cap room. Boy would a Howard trade have been looking good right now. :wink:

WhoDat 06-27-2005 09:57 AM

You'll eat those words in December chump! LOL

Hhhmmm... so we need cap room you say? Can you think of any older vets who are highly paid that supposedly have young guys threatening? Gandy? Bellamy? Thomas? Rodgers? Conwell? Think any of these guys gets cut?

saintswhodi 06-27-2005 10:34 AM

Quote:

You'll eat those words in December chump! LOL
We'll see who's eating what words when. And since I will be eating them in December, and the playoffs start in January, I am to assume from that statement we will not be in the playoffs again, thus having Howard here made no difference, and therefore we should have traded him. :P

As far as cutting someone goes, Bellamy just signed a new deal this offseason, which I complained about when they did it, but it's done now. Gandy seems the most obvious as much as his salary is, and if you believe the Stinch hype, which I desperately want to. Rodgers should go as well probably. Fred could still be traded, rumors cleveland was interested before the draft.

LordOfEntropy 06-27-2005 11:50 AM

One of them, at least, will have to go. I think you nailed all the obvious ones there WhoDat.

I predicted Thomas gone earlier this year, and we'll definitely cut a LB and a TE. Probably both. But Gandy I'm not so sure about. I don't think they're ready to cut him yet. Definitely next year. Stinch may be coming, but injuries do happen, and that's such a key position....

Resigning Bellamy didn't make any sense to me. I thought we were going to draft Thomas Davis. Regardless of the signing, I hope it's just for depth, and that he rides bench this season as a backup. I don't wish to dog on him, but I still haven't forgotten that 'juked out of his shoes for a touchdown' by that quarterback last season. He's just not up to par, IMO. A backup, but that's all.

saintswhodi 06-27-2005 12:23 PM

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I don't wish to dog on him, but I still haven't forgotten that 'juked out of his shoes for a touchdown' by that quarterback last season.
That was David Carr, and that was two years ago. But if David Carr could juke him out two years ago, Drew freaking Bledsoe could juke him out now. :wink:

LordOfEntropy 06-27-2005 12:30 PM

Was it that long ago, back before my Alzheimers started kicking in?.... guess my age is showing.

Good point. He's a decent backup, but I'd rather see Mitchell or Gleason in there, not to mention Bullocks.... How long was the contract he resigned with? Two or three years?

saintswhodi 06-27-2005 12:47 PM

3 years. I am still pissed we wasted that $800,000 per.

LordOfEntropy 06-27-2005 01:05 PM

Hm. He will play one, maybe two years of that contract. He won't play three - no way. He and DT are the weakest points on our defense, IMO.

I read earlier that they're only planning on playing him on running downs, i.e. blitzing him or cheating him up into the box. He's already lost his slot on nickel and dime packages.

WhoDat 06-27-2005 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saintswhodi
Quote:

You'll eat those words in December chump! LOL
We'll see who's eating what words when. And since I will be eating them in December, and the playoffs start in January, I am to assume from that statement we will not be in the playoffs again, thus having Howard here made no difference, and therefore we should have traded him. :P

Tisk, tisk. You know what they say about assumptions Whodi.

December, if memory serves, is when the Pro Bowl balloting ends and the Pro Bowlers are announced. :) Regardless, Howard will be valuable this season and you'll thank me for keeping him on this team. LOL

saintswhodi 06-27-2005 02:30 PM

Quote:

Tisk, tisk. You know what they say about assumptions Whodi.

December, if memory serves, is when the Pro Bowl balloting ends and the Pro Bowlers are announced. Regardless, Howard will be valuable this season and you'll thank me for keeping him on this team. LOL
So in effect, it doesn't matter if we make the playoffs or not, as long as Howard makes the pro bowl, which he never has, you will feel vindicated? Glad to see your priorities are in order Who. :shock:

WhoDat 06-27-2005 07:01 PM

So Pro Bowl players don't help a team go to the playoffs? If the Saints don't make the playoffs this season it will be Darren Howards fault? Didn't you want to trade him for a draft pick and to clear cap space to sign Bentley, Deuce, McKenzie, etc. to long-term deals? Doesn't that represent FUTURE VALUE to the team? Those things wouldn't have helped this year anyway, would they?

Now who is making the assumptions? :)

saintswhodi 06-27-2005 07:22 PM

Quote:

So Pro Bowl players don't help a team go to the playoffs?
Why don't we ask Deuce, Joe, and LeCharles? They made the pro bowl previously, no playoffs. How many pro bowlers did NE have last year? Not many I think.

Quote:

If the Saints don't make the playoffs this season it will be Darren Howards fault?
Who's trying to lay fault? If he is here, makes the pro bowl, but we don't go the the playoffs, who gives a crap that he made the pro bowl? I sure as hell don't. I would rather have no pro bowlers and make the playoffs than have 22 pro bowlers and be sitting at home.

Quote:

Didn't you want to trade him for a draft pick and to clear cap space to sign Bentley, Deuce, McKenzie, etc. to long-term deals?
Um, yes, to trade him for a draft pick in this year's draft. Unless you don't think Fincher or Brown or Bullocks will help at all, then a pick wouldn't have helped us. I happen to think all of them may help us some this year, and an extra second rounder or first rounder would have brought more help.

Quote:

Doesn't that represent FUTURE VALUE to the team? Those things wouldn't have helped this year anyway, would they?
Yes future as in this season if you count Brown, Bullocks, and Finch. Another high second or low first prob would have brought another player who could help this year. But as long as Howard makes the pro bowl, I guess it's all worth it, screw a team goal.

Quote:

Now who is making the assumptions?
I stopped making assumptions and just started reading what was there, and I am appalled. :wink:

WhoDat 06-27-2005 07:34 PM

Whodi, what are you trying to prove?

I would rather have zero Pro Bowlers and go to the Playoffs also. My point is simply that Howard, in my estimation, is going to play well this year. I like players who play well. I can't ask anything more of a player than to be amongst the top 5 or 6 at his position in a league. If the team doesn't go to the playoffs, I'm sure that it will all be Howard's fault. But if we make the playoffs and Howard plays well, I wonder what you'll say.

saintswhodi 06-27-2005 08:59 PM

Quote:

My point is simply that Howard, in my estimation, is going to play well this year.
Considering he hasn't been healthy for a full season either of the last two years, this should be revised to "will play well if he is able to be on the field." :wink:

Quote:

But if we make the playoffs and Howard plays well, I wonder what you'll say.
To continue the thought, I am sure Howard will play well when he is on the field cause he has his whole career. I like the guy. I don't like his salary cap figure, and I think you have had a hard time discovering the difference between those two things. He played well last year, no playoffs. He has played well since he has been here. I don't think whether Howard plays well or not will be the deciding factor in us making the playoffs. Grant makes more tackles and Smith forces more turnovers. AB has the biggest role in us making the playoffs. If he plays well, we are in, and whatever Howard does isn't gonna influence that more than what anyone else on the defense does, sorry to say.

saintz08 06-27-2005 11:09 PM

Quote:

Considering he hasn't been healthy for a full season either of the last two years, this should be revised to "will play well if he is able to be on the field."
Damn , you beat me to saying that ........

I really do not see boo boo boy making it through the season healthy .Trade Howard for a 12 pack and future consideration on a lap dance and get this drama over with . Another disaster of the Hasbeen era , they should have packaged Howard to someone for a chance at someone who can plug the holes at the linebacker position . O.J. Simpson could get a 100 yards on the Saints if he suited up tomorrow for someone .The Saints are loaded with perimeter talent to put pressure on the quarterback , but opposing teams do not need to pass because of the huge holes in the middle .

WhoDat 06-28-2005 09:14 AM

Wait a second.

Never did I dispute the fact that the Saints need to upgrade at DT or LB. I've been screaming that for years. Nor did I say that the Saints should not trade Darren Howard. I said that they SHOULD trade him IF they can get fair market value. The team should not give away good players simply to free up space for other players already under contract, IMO.

It is not the best situation, I won't dispute that for a second. However, suggesting that having three very talented DEs is a bad thing is just assinine. Sure, having two talented DEs and one talented DTs is better, but c'mon.

This offseason, though not great, was IMO, one of the better in recent Saints history. Yes, again they failed miserably at addressing glaring needs in the middle of the defense with proven talented veterans. However, for once, I don't think that they made a bad signing. I also think that the team attempted to upgrade at MLB and players went elsewhere. As for Howard, if it's a choice between an insufficent deal that frees up space and keeping the guy, I say keep the guy. Simply b/c that's not the best option, or the option you wanted, does not mean that the guy won't play well this year. I think he will, and yes, I know all about his history with injuries... but then, how often in the last 5 years was he playing in a rotation with two other guys just as talented as he is?

saintswhodi 06-28-2005 10:11 AM

Quote:

but then, how often in the last 5 years was he playing in a rotation with two other guys just as talented as he is?
First time was last year, and he got hurt. But draw your own conclusions from that. :wink:

Quote:

Simply b/c that's not the best option, or the option you wanted, does not mean that the guy won't play well this year
Did I say he wouldn't play well when/if he was on the field? Nope. I said he would. The question is how much will he be on the field.

Quote:

As for Howard, if it's a choice between an insufficent deal that frees up space and keeping the guy, I say keep the guy.
Well, when that deal keeps LeCharles Bentley from hitting the open market, gets us SOMETHING for a player we will get nothing for next year, and allows us to pay the cornerstone of our offense what he should be paid, as well as allows us to pay the best CB in club history what we promised him when we traded for him and he shetup and just played, I don't think any deal is insufficient. But we can also take the myopic "oh, we only got a second for Howard" view too if you want. Doesn't work for me.

Quote:

However, suggesting that having three very talented DEs is a bad thing is just assinine.
Who suggested that? What did you say before about assumptions?

Quote:

I said that they SHOULD trade him IF they can get fair market value. The team should not give away good players simply to free up space for other players already under contract, IMO.
Okay, then you agree to trade him for a second, cause market value for even stud RBs is a third or lower, see Edge James and Shaun Alexander and Trav Henry, ACTUAL pro bowlers. Colts said they would take a 3rd for Edge, no takers. A proven pro bowl stud. So what's your fair market value? The market was set, and you still poo-pooed any trade talk cause it wasn't YOUR market value for Howard. So when you say fair market value, you mean what WhoDat considers fair market value and not what the league considers fair market value right? Noone took Trevor Pryce off Denver's hands last year, a PROVEN pro bowler and a better player than Howard. So where is fair market value set?

Euphoria 06-28-2005 12:18 PM

I have to get in on this... fair market value to me is phoney. Its more of what you will give up to get this, is what it boils down to (but looking at the bigger picture of contracts ect). I say we have to make a run this year with what we have at this point and let the chips fall where they may next. There are to many issues that will have to be addressed this coming off season, that we may very well be looking at a completely new Saints team next year. Between now and the next off season there will be no contract deals/extensions we are fine now with the cap. Those who don't live up to the money this year will surely be gone. There will be money to keep Duece and I feel Deuce isn't expected to break the back he knows the importance of good blocking from last year and he is from just up the road.

WhoDat 06-28-2005 02:06 PM

Quote:

The market was set, and you still poo-pooed any trade talk cause it wasn't YOUR market value for Howard.
Wrong. I didn't set it, the SAINTS set it. And furthermore, if Howard is so worthless, how in god's name were we ever going to get these proven players that you want in return for howard? Why don't we just wait until July and cut him, huh? I mean, he is basically of no value to the team. He's injury prone and overpaid. Let's just cut him in three weeks so we can sign Deuce and Bentley and McKenzie now.

RockyMountainSaint 06-28-2005 02:46 PM

oops

RockyMountainSaint 06-28-2005 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockyMountainSaint
AB has the biggest role in us making the playoffs. If he plays well, we are in, and whatever Howard does isn't gonna influence that more than what anyone else on the defense does, sorry to say.

This is the scariest thing of all, because it is true.

God Help Us.

saintswhodi 06-28-2005 03:17 PM

Quote:

Wrong. I didn't set it, the SAINTS set it. And furthermore, if Howard is so worthless, how in god's name were we ever going to get these proven players that you want in return for howard? Why don't we just wait until July and cut him, huh? I mean, he is basically of no value to the team. He's injury prone and overpaid. Let's just cut him in three weeks so we can sign Deuce and Bentley and McKenzie now.
Polarizing. Last dance of the defeated. I guess I don't need to add anything else. 8)

FireVenturi 06-28-2005 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockyMountainSaint
Quote:

Originally Posted by RockyMountainSaint
AB has the biggest role in us making the playoffs. If he plays well, we are in, and whatever Howard does isn't gonna influence that more than what anyone else on the defense does, sorry to say.

This is the scariest thing of all, because it is true.

God Help Us.

Actually the D has the biggest role. If we still have the worst D, we can forget about it. Playoffs?! Playoffs?!

LordOfEntropy 06-28-2005 04:58 PM

Defence more impact than offense? - definitely. But I think he was talking about which player has the most impact, as opposed to a set of players. And I have to agree, that'd definitely be QB in my book.

And I'd also have to agree that it's scary, because he's so damn unpredictable. A probowler making beautiful passes one minute, a complete boneheaded embarrassment the next.

C'mon A-Mac! I'm hoping he can replace Charles Grant as my favorite.

WhoDat 06-29-2005 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saintswhodi
Polarizing. Last dance of the defeated. I guess I don't need to add anything else. 8)

Defeated? Sure, considering you're arguing a fictitious position. All I did was make a crack about you eating crow in December after Howard had a great season. My point - I think Howard is going to have a good season. That's a pretty hard position to argue considering it's my OPINION and merely a PREDICTION.

I believe you ASSUMED (incorrectly I might add) that I was suggesting that the Saints would not make the playoffs b/c I said December and not January. Based on that faulty assumption you inferred that I would therefore prefer to have Pro Bowlers on a bad team, rather than go to the playoffs with a bunch of Average Joes, another incorrect assumption. Finally, you've argued my OPINION, once again, that I think keeping Howard based on the available options in the market was not the best solution, but wasn't a bad one either, and now claimed victory by comparing Howard to a couple of RBs and suggesting that he will not be healthy this season b/c he hasn't been in the past. Oh well, I guess Joe Horn, Donte Stallworth, and Deuce McAllister are all screwed too.

Have you been hanging out with Billy? Claiming victory of a phantom argument which you fabricated. Congratulations. You must be so proud.

saintswhodi 06-29-2005 08:54 AM

Quote:

Defeated? Sure, considering you're arguing a fictitious position. All I did was make a crack about you eating crow in December after Howard had a great season. My point - I think Howard is going to have a good season. That's a pretty hard position to argue considering it's my OPINION and merely a PREDICTION.
Wait, so you are getting on me cause I argued your OPINION? What do they call that? Um, err, a FORUM. Congrats Who, you should patent that. A place where you can go to argue someone's opinion. BRILLIANT.

Quote:

I believe you ASSUMED (incorrectly I might add) that I was suggesting that the Saints would not make the playoffs b/c I said December and not January.

Next time, choose your words better. Why would anyone regret anything in December, when the season isn't even over then? Then you throw out some lame idea about that being when pro bowl balloting ends and blah blah blah. Please.

Quote:

Finally, you've argued my OPINION, once again, that I think keeping Howard based on the available options in the market was not the best solution, but wasn't a bad one either, and now claimed victory by comparing Howard to a couple of RBs and suggesting that he will not be healthy this season b/c he hasn't been in the past. Oh well, I guess Joe Horn, Donte Stallworth, and Deuce McAllister are all screwed too.
Wait again, this coming from the guy who practically threw himself a victory parade when Joe Horn BACKTRACKED on hold-out talks and wanting Marvin Harrison money claiming he knew it all along, because when Joe WAS making those demands, some said we should trade him? Priceless. Truly priceless. Donte was hurt his first two years, and healthy last year, the opposite of Howard actually. Joe plays through his injuries. And Deuce came back early from his. When Howard is hurt, he doesn't play. But I am sure we will get a lot of production from a rotational guy making 7 mil this season who will prob have to play out of position at DT in passing situations again which he himself said he hated. Buy you got this one down Who. You showed me.

Quote:

Have you been hanging out with Billy? Claiming victory of a phantom argument which you fabricated. Congratulations. You must be so proud.
I must have fabricated your five responses too. And who is this fictional Billy you keep referring to? close friend? That guy isn't even here any more and you can't keep him off your mind. You sure it's him in Brooks' bushes and not you in his? :wink:


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