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Defense Wins Championships.

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Looking to 2019 there is a good chance the Saints defense will outshine the offense. For anyone who's been a Saints fan over the last decade that is not something you would expect to hear. In recent times the Saints ...

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Old 06-18-2019, 05:58 AM   #1
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Defense Wins Championships.

Looking to 2019 there is a good chance the Saints defense will outshine the offense. For anyone who's been a Saints fan over the last decade that is not something you would expect to hear. In recent times the Saints have statistically fielded some of the worst defenses in NFL history. Finally that has all changed.

https://www.laredzonereport.com/post...defensive-unit

XLIV CHAMPS
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Old 06-18-2019, 07:03 AM   #2
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Re: Defense Wins Championships.

Well be even better this year.
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Old 06-24-2019, 11:36 AM   #3
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Re: Defense Wins Championships.

Originally Posted by CheramieIII View Post
Well be even better this year.
True Dat!
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Old 06-24-2019, 02:14 PM   #4
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Re: Defense Wins Championships.

Originally Posted by 44Champs View Post
Looking to 2019 there is a good chance the Saints defense will outshine the offense. For anyone who's been a Saints fan over the last decade that is not something you would expect to hear. In recent times the Saints have statistically fielded some of the worst defenses in NFL history. Finally that has all changed.

https://www.laredzonereport.com/post...defensive-unit

XLIV CHAMPS
The D needs to set the tone from the first series of the first game ... start fast.
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Old 06-24-2019, 04:44 PM   #5
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Re: Defense Wins Championships.

Good podcast, but I disagree. Will offer my sentiment -

Defense wins championships only when you have an offense that achieves a positive net ratio on yards, first downs and ANY/A yardage and don't turn the ball over. Teams like the 2000 Ravens and 2015 Broncos where the defense does 90% of the hard work to win the SB are incredibly rare and both of those teams were "at the right place, at the right time" to put it, in circumstantial situations.

I'll give you the best example - the 1985 Bears. Their offense is shockingly underrated in terms of historical value. 1985 was the one year that Chicago had an above average passing game (they ranked in the top 5 all year on passing stats and had a better than average ANY/A ranking). Most people just assume Walter Payton was their entire offense, but that was not true in 1985. The one year Chicago has a legit offense, they won the SB. They same couldn't be said for 1984, 1986, or 1987. The old Ditka Bears are a great example of having the possible GOAT defense and GOAT running back, still not getting you anywhere without a legit passing game.

I can also point to Baltimore for examples. In 2006 they had a defense that was arguably better than the 2000 team and had played a much tougher slate of QBs. Their 2009, 2011, 2014 and 2017 teams also had elite defenses ranked in the top 5 but in the playoffs, they all lost to teams that could also keep up with them defensively and limit mistakes. People love to say the Colts defense carried Manning in the 2006 playoff run, but the difference was, he actually moved the ball down the field, while McNair and the Ravens couldn't even muster a TD that night. Go through all those playoff losses with Baltimore's elite defense and you'll see where they lost due to the offense being lackluster or making big mistakes (Joe Flacco's dumb interception vs New England in 2014).

Our offense tanked last year beginning with the Dallas game and they were carried by the defense the rest of the way. We lose to Tampa, Carolina and Pittsburgh if not for the defense trying to move heaven and earth to bail us out. My point here is, if our offense didn't regress, we wouldn't have had to rely on the defense.

They scored 20 and 23 points in the playoffs. I think what gets lost in all the talk about the non-call is that we let Philly linger around in a game where the defense dominated them for 3 quarters, all cause the offense couldn't stop committing dumb penalties and not executing drives into TDs.

If the defense plays the same from last year, I'm not concerned about them. I'm concerned about the offense having another lack luster year or having some peak and then crashing hard.
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Old 06-24-2019, 05:11 PM   #6
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Re: Defense Wins Championships.

Originally Posted by CHA_CHING View Post
Good podcast, but I disagree. Will offer my sentiment -

Defense wins championships only when you have an offense that achieves a positive net ratio on yards, first downs and ANY/A yardage and don't turn the ball over. Teams like the 2000 Ravens and 2015 Broncos where the defense does 90% of the hard work to win the SB are incredibly rare and both of those teams were "at the right place, at the right time" to put it, in circumstantial situations.

I'll give you the best example - the 1985 Bears. Their offense is shockingly underrated in terms of historical value. 1985 was the one year that Chicago had an above average passing game (they ranked in the top 5 all year on passing stats and had a better than average ANY/A ranking). Most people just assume Walter Payton was their entire offense, but that was not true in 1985. The one year Chicago has a legit offense, they won the SB. They same couldn't be said for 1984, 1986, or 1987. The old Ditka Bears are a great example of having the possible GOAT defense and GOAT running back, still not getting you anywhere without a legit passing game.

I can also point to Baltimore for examples. In 2006 they had a defense that was arguably better than the 2000 team and had played a much tougher slate of QBs. Their 2009, 2011, 2014 and 2017 teams also had elite defenses ranked in the top 5 but in the playoffs, they all lost to teams that could also keep up with them defensively and limit mistakes. People love to say the Colts defense carried Manning in the 2006 playoff run, but the difference was, he actually moved the ball down the field, while McNair and the Ravens couldn't even muster a TD that night. Go through all those playoff losses with Baltimore's elite defense and you'll see where they lost due to the offense being lackluster or making big mistakes (Joe Flacco's dumb interception vs New England in 2014).

Our offense tanked last year beginning with the Dallas game and they were carried by the defense the rest of the way. We lose to Tampa, Carolina and Pittsburgh if not for the defense trying to move heaven and earth to bail us out. My point here is, if our offense didn't regress, we wouldn't have had to rely on the defense.

They scored 20 and 23 points in the playoffs. I think what gets lost in all the talk about the non-call is that we let Philly linger around in a game where the defense dominated them for 3 quarters, all cause the offense couldn't stop committing dumb penalties and not executing drives into TDs.

If the defense plays the same from last year, I'm not concerned about them. I'm concerned about the offense having another lack luster year or having some peak and then crashing hard.
Last off-season I had Demario Davis as the most important pick-up on the player front. I believe that was fairly accurate. This season I have Jared Cook as the difference maker on offense. Last season our TE's were never a real threat, thus giving the defense the ability to key upon our other offensive areas. In my opinion that will not be the case this year. The addition of Cook and the further development of the young WR's should prove to be a huge factor. And I have no worries about the loss of Ingram at RB. I loved his play ... but Murray has the ability in the Saints offense to be just as productive and possibly even more explosive at times.
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Old 06-24-2019, 07:02 PM   #7
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Re: Defense Wins Championships.

Cook should make this offense unstoppable. Someone will always be open.

Agree on Murray. I felt the same way around 5 minutes after the signing.
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Old 06-24-2019, 08:12 PM   #8
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Re: Defense Wins Championships.

Originally Posted by CHA_CHING View Post
Good podcast, but I disagree. Will offer my sentiment -

Defense wins championships only when you have an offense that achieves a positive net ratio on yards, first downs and ANY/A yardage and don't turn the ball over. Teams like the 2000 Ravens and 2015 Broncos where the defense does 90% of the hard work to win the SB are incredibly rare and both of those teams were "at the right place, at the right time" to put it, in circumstantial situations.

I'll give you the best example - the 1985 Bears. Their offense is shockingly underrated in terms of historical value. 1985 was the one year that Chicago had an above average passing game (they ranked in the top 5 all year on passing stats and had a better than average ANY/A ranking). Most people just assume Walter Payton was their entire offense, but that was not true in 1985. The one year Chicago has a legit offense, they won the SB. They same couldn't be said for 1984, 1986, or 1987. The old Ditka Bears are a great example of having the possible GOAT defense and GOAT running back, still not getting you anywhere without a legit passing game.

I can also point to Baltimore for examples. In 2006 they had a defense that was arguably better than the 2000 team and had played a much tougher slate of QBs. Their 2009, 2011, 2014 and 2017 teams also had elite defenses ranked in the top 5 but in the playoffs, they all lost to teams that could also keep up with them defensively and limit mistakes. People love to say the Colts defense carried Manning in the 2006 playoff run, but the difference was, he actually moved the ball down the field, while McNair and the Ravens couldn't even muster a TD that night. Go through all those playoff losses with Baltimore's elite defense and you'll see where they lost due to the offense being lackluster or making big mistakes (Joe Flacco's dumb interception vs New England in 2014).

Our offense tanked last year beginning with the Dallas game and they were carried by the defense the rest of the way. We lose to Tampa, Carolina and Pittsburgh if not for the defense trying to move heaven and earth to bail us out. My point here is, if our offense didn't regress, we wouldn't have had to rely on the defense.

They scored 20 and 23 points in the playoffs. I think what gets lost in all the talk about the non-call is that we let Philly linger around in a game where the defense dominated them for 3 quarters, all cause the offense couldn't stop committing dumb penalties and not executing drives into TDs.

If the defense plays the same from last year, I'm not concerned about them. I'm concerned about the offense having another lack luster year or having some peak and then crashing hard.

Yea... I remember when we had a great defense. We lost games because our offense couldn't win any games... it had to be the defense.



That is why Joe Montana is consider one of the greatest QBs.


Of course you could blame Jim Mora on that too.
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Old 06-24-2019, 09:08 PM   #9
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Re: Defense Wins Championships.

Originally Posted by CHA_CHING View Post
Our offense tanked last year beginning with the Dallas game and they were carried by the defense the rest of the way. We lose to Tampa, Carolina and Pittsburgh if not for the defense trying to move heaven and earth to bail us out. My point here is, if our offense didn't regress, we wouldn't have had to rely on the defense.

We never lost to Pittsburg but it was a great game.

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Old 06-25-2019, 05:09 PM   #10
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Re: Defense Wins Championships.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
Last off-season I had Demario Davis as the most important pick-up on the player front. I believe that was fairly accurate. This season I have Jared Cook as the difference maker on offense. Last season our TE's were never a real threat, thus giving the defense the ability to key upon our other offensive areas. In my opinion that will not be the case this year. The addition of Cook and the further development of the young WR's should prove to be a huge factor. And I have no worries about the loss of Ingram at RB. I loved his play ... but Murray has the ability in the Saints offense to be just as productive and possibly even more explosive at times.
Great points here.

TEs have not been a real factor for a few years now. Fleener was a free agency bust that we overpaid and Ben Watson is someone we all love for being a likable guy off the field, but he played his better days in New England.

In my opinion, we make the Super Bowl if we had a legit #2 receiver last year or TE. The offense just got exposed overly relying on Kamara and MT to carry them.

I like Murray too and I agree in the early bit of the podcast, Kamara was on fire when he was the lead back and not sharing the load with Ingram. Murray will most likely be our feature back IMO who is doing most runs up the middle and plays designed for pounding the ball forward.
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