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Saw this article on the red zone

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Fortunately, I have probably used up all my arguing points for a month, so I will just say, it really does not matter what offense you saw during Mora's years, or what defense, which by the way was one of ...

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Old 07-20-2005, 09:19 PM   #11
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Fortunately, I have probably used up all my arguing points for a month, so I will just say, it really does not matter what offense you saw during Mora's years, or what defense, which by the way was one of the best of all time. WE DON"T HAVE THAT ANY MORE. The offense we have now, should be what the defense was to us during the Mora years, but it isn't. It's not even close. And we have the most offensive talent of any Saints team ever, just like back then we had the most defensive talent of any Saints team ever.

A defense giving up 90-0 points in the first ain't normal.
Um, so is an offense having zero, with the defense top 10 in takeaways. Even Chicago scored at least a FG in the 1st quarter.

The excuse of you knew the defense was gonna be bad?? Then that means you knew to not have any hopes for the past 4 years? So why would you be so angry at AB/ the offense? because they didn't score enough points to lose in a high scoring game? that would make you feel better?
What does the past 4 years have to do with last year's defense, or the fact the offense should be potent and high scoring? We did lose Grady Jackson, Sammy Knight, Norman Hand, and La'Roi Glover over those years, and tried to replace them with Sullivan and Tesucky, and brought in Orlando Ruff. Somehow you thought the defense was gonna be good? Our offense should be like Indy, they aren't. Not even close. And that's scary for the amount of talent they have. Did Indy or did they not go to the playoffs with a defense that only gave up 13 less yards per game than us? Yes they did.

See I have to point out just how ridiculous some of you sound!
I think you failed.
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Old 07-21-2005, 07:16 AM   #12
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Just to weigh in here -- First I will say that the defense is unacceptable -- but for those saying we score enough points to win games I have to say one thing -- It is much easier to score points when the team is 2 TDs behind. No points in the first quartere by the offense -- Saints fans -- that is an NFL record -----
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Old 07-21-2005, 09:11 AM   #13
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With regard to our offense......I said this all last year. They didn't score enough points unless the team in question has an elite (top 5) defense. I don't think any of us expected that last year and you'd have to be a little silly to expect it this year. (I think top 1/3 would be a nice goal...middle 1/3 is more realistic.)

For anyone who thinks the Offense did not deserve a lion's share of the blame last year, consider these stats. They are undeniable.

Our point totals in losses last year:
7 vs. Seattle
10 vs. Zona
17 vs. Tampa
31 vs. Minn.
17 vs. SD
13 vs. Denver
21 vs. Atl
21 vs. Carolina


The only game where the O lived up to any reasonable sense of expectation and the D let them down was the Vikings game. I think that Saints fans went into the season knowing that it would take more than 21 to win on any given Sunday. A true "high octane" offense (as we were touted to be) routinely puts 4 scores on the board.

The defense got most of the negative press last year (nationally), but the offense never held up their end of the bargain and made the D's job tougher than it should have been. 3 and out for 10 straight games? That is INSANE. Hard to do. My contention was that Mike should have been drug through the streets for that. (Considering most OCs script the first 15 plays.....this shows his complete ineptitude as a play caller.)

Mike, for some reason, always got a pass. It's Venturi, Haz, and Benson. It is my contention that McCarthy was the worst coach on this team. The playaction pass at the end of the Carolina game (where Ernie rolled out of bounds) was the single worst play call I have ever seen. I can't wait to watch him ruin Alex Smith
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Old 07-21-2005, 09:17 AM   #14
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Excellently done yasoon and I could not agree with you more. I also believe I have stated I blame McCarthy for the offense's shortcoming more than any player. The two tight end offense was a disaster, alienated one of our best players, and kept the offense from getting into a rhythm all year. Now, some of that can be blamed on the two TEs, boo and ernie, who were inconsistent at best, but when you have your QB coming off his best year(minus the fumbles of course) and your RB coming off a pro bowl year, what idiot chooses to change the offense, and how does Haz agree to this? If anything, they should have strived to strengthen an already potent offense, knowing we were counting on a mix of aging vets and very young players, mixed with some very inconsistent middle of the road guys on our defense. Didn't happen, and the whole team suffered as a result.

Anyway, nice post.
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Old 07-21-2005, 09:26 AM   #15
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Thanks, dude.

Is it just me or does Conwell kinda suck?

I like the acquisition initially, but he dropped some easy balls last year and missed some blocks. Same with Sloan....we get guys that I think will be solid pick ups, with good hands and they all drop balls on 3rd down.
Boo has the hands, but can't seem to handle the blocking assignments and apparently can't run good routes. Off topic, but the reference to the 2 TE set got me thinking about how bad we were at that position last year. I had Boo on my fantasy team and he was a total bust.
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Old 07-21-2005, 09:27 AM   #16
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I totally agree. I also take it to the point that the 2 TE system caused Deuce's injury and further hurt the offense. I'm not saying he wouldn't have sprained his ankle at some point anyway, but this particular injury was caused during that set and Deuce was hit in the backfield. Although he was out only 2 games, it really did effect him as we all know much longer than that. That was all McCarthy.

McCarthy also should have seen from preseason that it wasn't working. Every preseason game left me complaining about defenders coming up the middle of the line. It took time for Bentley to gel at Center and time for he and the Gs to gel. McCarthy should have seen that and abandoned that rediculous set.
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Old 07-21-2005, 09:42 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by ScottyRo
I totally agree. I also take it to the point that the 2 TE system caused Deuce's injury and further hurt the offense. I'm not saying he wouldn't have sprained his ankle at some point anyway, but this particular injury was caused during that set and Deuce was hit in the backfield. Although he was out only 2 games, it really did effect him as we all know much longer than that. That was all McCarthy.

McCarthy also should have seen from preseason that it wasn't working. Every preseason game left me complaining about defenders coming up the middle of the line. It took time for Bentley to gel at Center and time for he and the Gs to gel. McCarthy should have seen that and abandoned that rediculous set.
Couldn't agree with you more either. That two tight end set was an offense(no pun intended) to all of us. At no point, preseason, regular season, offseason, mini camp, did it work, and Deuce called it out BEFORE the season. He was dropped for losses on several plays in the Seattle game, hell during the preseason. Unmitigated disaster. Like I said, I blamce McCarthy more than any player for that disaster, and by extension Haz for not recognizing that failure for what it was, or not saying to McCarthy "WTF are you thinking? Did you see the years Deuce and Aaron and Joe, plus Boo at the end had? Why would we mess with that?"
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Old 07-21-2005, 09:44 AM   #18
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Mike was kinda like a dude playing madden for the first time. "Let's try this and see what happens. This'll be neat."

I also think he suffered from some type of Napolean syndrome as an up and comer at OC. When I heard about the size of the playbook...I was amazed. I could just see him saying "Yeah we've got a high powered offense...have you seen our playbook? It's the biggest in the NFC."
Even more amazing was that we had all this bloated terminology and you could almost always predict what he was going to do. When the story about the playbook came out, it was like...where are all these plays?

I'm not giving AB a pass here, but I think some of the stuff with the offense was a product of the terminology and the system. Good coaches are adaptive and shape things around their key personnel. I think Mike helped AB devolve rather than improve. Look at what the Steelers did last year (with a great O line and a great D I know). They put in ben, so they stripped down their playbook to give the kid a chance. The Saints, after a couple of years of confusion, mental mistakes, and inconsitency keep putting the square peg in the round hole trying to have a fancy offense. I think most of us know that the football IQ on this team has been very low over the Haslett tenure. Good talent....not always heady talent. That makes encyclopedic playbooks a baaaaaad idea.

I'm not saying I'm sold on the new, slimmer edition, because we seem to get a reason for why we'll be amazing every summer. I think it's a good move, but I'm just waiting for that first Sunday. All the other crap is just lip service until then.
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Old 07-21-2005, 09:50 AM   #19
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Well said.
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