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Wide Reciever

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by blackangold Iím shocked that there is an argument against needing another WR. Best yet the argument is, hey, just throw it more to Thomas you donít need another WR because he is so good lol... This isnít ...

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Old 11-30-2019, 07:39 PM   #21
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Re: Wide Reciever

Originally Posted by blackangold View Post
Iím shocked that there is an argument against needing another WR.

Best yet the argument is, hey, just throw it more to Thomas you donít need another WR because he is so good lol...

This isnít about how good MT is, itís about having the D respect another WR. More importantly having another guy that doesnít drop every other pass thrown their way. Outside of MT we have absolutely nothing at WR and TE that makes a defense even think twice.
Precisely. Cooks has been open a lot as of late, and for potentiallybig gains, and that is certainly because of MT and AK, but then he is hit or miss.

You can see how the offense begs down because no one can get open
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Old 11-30-2019, 08:47 PM   #22
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Re: Wide Reciever

Originally Posted by spkb25 View Post
Precisely. Cooks has been open a lot as of late, and for potentiallybig gains, and that is certainly because of MT and AK, but then he is hit or miss.

You can see how the offense begs down because no one can get open
So exactly which is it "Cooks has been open a lot of late" or "no one can get open"?

I finally figured out that everyone is worried if for any reason CGM cannot continue the sustained production from the last 4 years. Production that is on the verge of record breaking this year. Despite the fact that motion, placement in the slot, and combination routes especially with Kamara have defeated all the bracket coverage every DC in the league has thrown in his direction FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS!.

I just keep trying to point out the flawed thinking that the lack of targets and lack of production is based on lack of separation or lack of ability. If CGM is the #1 read, the back is the #2 read, the TE is the #3 read and finally the #2 WR is the #4 read. If the #1, #2, or #3 read is available, then it doesn't matter who the #4 read is.

As I've pointed out before a perfect example of that was last year when TQS caught the TD against Washington where Brees set the record. According to Brees, that route is never targeted in that play. I keep hearing the argument that if there was a better player in that spot, then that route would be targeted more. But it's not designed to be targeted.

Austin Carr is another example of this in the offense. Dude had nearly 200 snaps this season before going on IR. He was targeted like 5 times. If his job was to get open and catch balls, then why would Payton continue to roll out this lack of production for hundreds of snaps? Same can be said for TQS, Hogan, and Humprey when he was here.

Positioning, spacing, blocking, and knowing the purpose of each play of the offense is just as important as actual production. If TQS or Ginn pulls a safety to open up Cook or CGM, then that receiver has done their job on that play. The very fact that the staff has not gone out of their way to fill this position by draft, trade, or free agency means that the collection of receivers they have for that position are exactly who they want in that position.

And yet it seems that every day, those decisions are questioned. 10-2, in the playoffs, division champ, in full control of HFA, yet somehow that brain trust cannot see the obvious like the fans do.

Maybe it's just not so obvious?

SFIAH
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Old 11-30-2019, 09:14 PM   #23
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Re: Wide Reciever

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL View Post
So exactly which is it "Cooks has been open a lot of late" or "no one can get open"?

I finally figured out that everyone is worried if for any reason CGM cannot continue the sustained production from the last 4 years. Production that is on the verge of record breaking this year. Despite the fact that motion, placement in the slot, and combination routes especially with Kamara have defeated all the bracket coverage every DC in the league has thrown in his direction FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS!.

I just keep trying to point out the flawed thinking that the lack of targets and lack of production is based on lack of separation or lack of ability. If CGM is the #1 read, the back is the #2 read, the TE is the #3 read and finally the #2 WR is the #4 read. If the #1, #2, or #3 read is available, then it doesn't matter who the #4 read is.

As I've pointed out before a perfect example of that was last year when TQS caught the TD against Washington where Brees set the record. According to Brees, that route is never targeted in that play. I keep hearing the argument that if there was a better player in that spot, then that route would be targeted more. But it's not designed to be targeted.

Austin Carr is another example of this in the offense. Dude had nearly 200 snaps this season before going on IR. He was targeted like 5 times. If his job was to get open and catch balls, then why would Payton continue to roll out this lack of production for hundreds of snaps? Same can be said for TQS, Hogan, and Humprey when he was here.

Positioning, spacing, blocking, and knowing the purpose of each play of the offense is just as important as actual production. If TQS or Ginn pulls a safety to open up Cook or CGM, then that receiver has done their job on that play. The very fact that the staff has not gone out of their way to fill this position by draft, trade, or free agency means that the collection of receivers they have for that position are exactly who they want in that position.

And yet it seems that every day, those decisions are questioned. 10-2, in the playoffs, division champ, in full control of HFA, yet somehow that brain trust cannot see the obvious like the fans do.

Maybe it's just not so obvious?

SFIAH
Well I'm speaking specifically about cooks in the falcons game in atlanta on thursday, probably should have been specific.

Yeah it is clear to everyone we need another WR and have even last season. People are not open. The problem will be amplified come playoffs. The level of play steps up in the playoffs. Can we continue to win with our defense playing lights out, sure, maybe, do we need another wr, obviously .
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Old 11-30-2019, 09:19 PM   #24
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Re: Wide Reciever

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL View Post
So exactly which is it "Cooks has been open a lot of late" or "no one can get open"?

I finally figured out that everyone is worried if for any reason CGM cannot continue the sustained production from the last 4 years. Production that is on the verge of record breaking this year. Despite the fact that motion, placement in the slot, and combination routes especially with Kamara have defeated all the bracket coverage every DC in the league has thrown in his direction FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS!.

I just keep trying to point out the flawed thinking that the lack of targets and lack of production is based on lack of separation or lack of ability. If CGM is the #1 read, the back is the #2 read, the TE is the #3 read and finally the #2 WR is the #4 read. If the #1, #2, or #3 read is available, then it doesn't matter who the #4 read is.

As I've pointed out before a perfect example of that was last year when TQS caught the TD against Washington where Brees set the record. According to Brees, that route is never targeted in that play. I keep hearing the argument that if there was a better player in that spot, then that route would be targeted more. But it's not designed to be targeted.

Austin Carr is another example of this in the offense. Dude had nearly 200 snaps this season before going on IR. He was targeted like 5 times. If his job was to get open and catch balls, then why would Payton continue to roll out this lack of production for hundreds of snaps? Same can be said for TQS, Hogan, and Humprey when he was here.

Positioning, spacing, blocking, and knowing the purpose of each play of the offense is just as important as actual production. If TQS or Ginn pulls a safety to open up Cook or CGM, then that receiver has done their job on that play. The very fact that the staff has not gone out of their way to fill this position by draft, trade, or free agency means that the collection of receivers they have for that position are exactly who they want in that position.

And yet it seems that every day, those decisions are questioned. 10-2, in the playoffs, division champ, in full control of HFA, yet somehow that brain trust cannot see the obvious like the fans do.

Maybe it's just not so obvious?

SFIAH
1we are 10-2, good team with a giant mega sized hole at wr, and I hope we get some help soon, because we need it BAD
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Old 11-30-2019, 09:33 PM   #25
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Re: Wide Reciever

I agree, no point in throwing the ball to anyone else when one person catches damn near everything. Why do that, throw it to someone else? No.

Throw it to him every single time. So what. Nobody can stop it. Besides, look at all the drops from everyone else right in the numbers. NO.
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Old 11-30-2019, 09:48 PM   #26
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Re: Wide Reciever

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL View Post
So exactly which is it "Cooks has been open a lot of late" or "no one can get open"?

I finally figured out that everyone is worried if for any reason CGM cannot continue the sustained production from the last 4 years. Production that is on the verge of record breaking this year. Despite the fact that motion, placement in the slot, and combination routes especially with Kamara have defeated all the bracket coverage every DC in the league has thrown in his direction FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS!.

I just keep trying to point out the flawed thinking that the lack of targets and lack of production is based on lack of separation or lack of ability. If CGM is the #1 read, the back is the #2 read, the TE is the #3 read and finally the #2 WR is the #4 read. If the #1, #2, or #3 read is available, then it doesn't matter who the #4 read...
SFIAH
This is not how offense works... progression in routs doesn’t go from one position group to another... it’s based on rout coverage and proximity to the primary rout, you don’t want your QB taking a long time to go through progression... usually the check down or RB rout is the last read.
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Old 11-30-2019, 09:52 PM   #27
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Re: Wide Reciever

Originally Posted by Beastmode View Post
I agree, no point in throwing the ball to anyone else when one person catches damn near everything. Why do that, throw it to someone else? No.

Throw it to him every single time. So what. Nobody can stop it. Besides, look at all the drops from everyone else right in the numbers. NO.
What good CBs has MT played this year?

What happens when MT gets covered by Sherman?
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Old 11-30-2019, 10:15 PM   #28
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Re: Wide Reciever

Originally Posted by blackangold View Post
What good CBs has MT played this year?

What happens when MT gets covered by Sherman?
I remember last year our offense was unstoppable until Dallas. I may be wrong and over simplifying here, but thought they doubled MT and had LB fast enough to stick with AK and as a result our entire offense bogged down.
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Old 11-30-2019, 10:17 PM   #29
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Re: Wide Reciever

Originally Posted by spkb25 View Post
I remember last year our offense was unstoppable until Dallas. I may be wrong and over simplifying here, but thought they doubled MT and had LB fast enough to stick with AK and as a result our entire offense bogged down.
Byron Jones locked down MT and they KOed Kamara... it also helped that they were allowed to mug our WRs. There should have been at least 10 PIs that were never called.
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Old 11-30-2019, 10:27 PM   #30
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Re: Wide Reciever

Originally Posted by blackangold View Post
Byron Jones locked down MT and they KOed Kamara... it also helped that they were allowed to mug our WRs. There should have been at least 10 PIs that were never called.
Yeah I remember that too now. Mugging them. That's the thing about playoffs too, it is like they call the PI less stringent than during regular season.
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