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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Iceshack - I know you were kidding when you asked for Whodatology, but you know what, you need it. So welcome ALL to WHODATOLOGY 101 - Effective Strategies for Debate There are a few important ideas to keep in mind ...

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Old 03-25-2003, 03:29 PM   #31
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Iceshack - I know you were kidding when you asked for Whodatology, but you know what, you need it. So welcome ALL to

WHODATOLOGY 101 - Effective Strategies for Debate

There are a few important ideas to keep in mind when you are debating on any topic. Good debate starts with an assertion of one’s opinion. That assertion should be followed up by facts, evidence, empirical evidence, whatever you want to call it, that supports the original statement. Sarcasm and wit may be utilized at times, but doing so may be tricky. The focus should always remain on the discussion. Making comments about a member of the debate usually only serves to illustrate your own ignorance, immaturity, or inability to discuss the merits of a case.

Here is a good example of what to do when debating.

1. Start with an assertion.

If the Saints don’t improve the talent level on their defense by signing some impact players, they will not improve as a team next year and run a very high risk of missing the playoffs.

2. Follow that up with evidence supporting your assertion.

A. Despite having one of the best offenses in the league last year (and maybe the best offense a Saints team has ever had), the New Orleans Saints lost a number of games because their 26th ranked defense could not stop even the worst teams from posting great numbers. Although the Saints offense seemed to be able to score at will on its opponents at times, the defense seemed more inept than any defense in the Saints’ recent history – giving up 20 points or more in 15 of 16 games.

B. According to Saints management, the problem lies not in poor play by any member of their offense, but in the personnel on defense. Thus, with plenty of cap room, draft picks, and available players, the Saints, media, and fans alike expected to see a number of big free agent signings and draft picks dedicated solely to the defense this off-season. So far, the only free agent signing that could be considered to included a “big-name� or “big-money� player came on offense, with the signing of Wayne Gandy.

C. While Jim Haslett may see the problem with the team being rooted surely in the defensive personnel, it is hard to believe that Defensive Coordinator, Rick Venturi, did not play a big part in the Saints’ failures on defense. The fact that Venturi has been in the league for 20 years, and never served as much more than a positions coach (with the exception of last year and a couple of stints as interim head coach – where he also failed miserably, albeit under less that stellar circumstances), leads me to believe that the man is not capable of serving in such a high post. The defense’s play only proved that when compared to the year prior.

D. The other teams in the NFC have all made moves to get better. All of them played their best football of the year at the end of the season last year, at the same time that the Saints were playing their worst. (A further explanation of both of these points will be made available at your request). With the NFC South already being one of the toughest divisions in football, and our opponents getting better, our failure to act in the off-season will become exponentially more apparent in the upcoming season, should the Saints continue on this route through free agency.

E. The players that the Saints have signed in this off-season, especially on the defense, have not significantly improved the talent level of the team. This remains the Saints largest area of need. Defensive Tackle, Middle Linebacker, Corner, and Safety remain problem areas where significant improves can be made.

F. The Saints have not effectively managed their cap situation this off-season. With the fourth or fifth most money available under the cap coming into free agency, they have done nothing to sign impact players. Further, their failure to restructure or release Norman Hand and Wally Williams continues to eat up nearly $10 million in cap space that could be much better used to sign impact free agents on defense.

G. The Saints still have potential. They have plenty of money and draft picks that can be used to improve their defense. If they can pull together the right personnel their defense may find itself ranked somewhere in the middle of the league next season. With an average defense and an offense that looks to be even better (especially if Aaron Brooks and Deuce McAllister stay healthy, and the Saints get some production from a Tight End or Receiver in the middle of the field), the Saints may be poised for a run at the NFC South title. However, without improvements on defense, that seems very unlikely.


I hope that this example has been helpful to those of you who do not know how to debate effectively. You should also look into these other classes:

“The Proper Use of Sarcasm�, taught by Professor Pakowitz
“Conflict Resolution 101�, taught by Professor Gatorman
“The Art of Diplomacy�, taught by Professor Lumm0x

Thank you for your time. I hope that you have enjoyed this seminar on effective strategies for debate.

Now iceshack – why don’t you try to debate what I am saying based on the merits of my argument. I dare you. B/c all I’ve seen so far from you is sarcasm and a tendency to avoid the issue at hand. Frankly, that doesn’t impress me. Here’s your chance to show us all that you know a thing or two about Saints football. Obviously, you don’t agree with what I’ve said, so prove to me why I am wrong.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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Old 03-25-2003, 04:00 PM   #32
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hehe.............. :exclam:
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Old 03-25-2003, 07:03 PM   #33
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Good lord people I can\'t believe you\'re not fuming because we\'ve not addressed fixing the 19th ranked Offense in the NFL last year!! I am just incensed by it! Have you people lost your freakin minds?? The Giants were better than us! The Seahawks were better than us! And for Christ\'s sake, even the Bengal’s were even better than us! I cannot believe you\'re not outraged that were not signing \"MORE high-quality free agents\" on O!! If we don\'t, then we \"will not be better\". You\'re all settling for a pretty good O. Great! That is GREAT….Just friggin Great! We have to do SOMETHING to stop the bleeding! My God people, we were 19th???? Worse than the Bengals?? I think I will slit my wrists and then get a job that will allow me to logon to the board every 2 hours ( or, maybe one with less servers) and post diatribe after diatribe. The sky is falling! The sky is falling! Everyone grab a high-priced free agent and hide under them quick!!

Dean Vernon Wormer: Mr. Hoover, president of Delta house? One point six; four C's and an F. A fine example you set! Daniel Simpson Day... HAS no grade point average. All courses incomplete. Mr. Blu - MR. BLUTARSKY... ZERO POINT ZERO.
John 'Bluto' Blutarsky: Christ. Seven years of college down the drain. Might as well join the f@$%ing Peace Corps.
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Old 03-26-2003, 07:12 AM   #34
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billyh, i believe the saints have to address offense as well, but not like we have to address defense. with who we had last year and the way they performed, well, it was\'nt what many expected......... i expect the saints to address the offense in the draft as well. anyway, remember many years ago when the saints would not pay wesley walls the money and carolina got him, i truely believe we lost the best tight end the saints had ever had........an impact player all around who proved it in carolina. can someone in n.o. find the person responsible for the mojo whammy cast on the saints from the beginning? even if they\'re dead and buried we should be able to find someone to remove the spell........i suspect maybe by just naming them the saints a voodoo queen may have become upset.........oh well, so many beers, sooo little time....smitty
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