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lets all hope saddam gives up so our boys can come home safely...........wishfully thinking out loud............on other topics, da saints continue to do as i would hope they would, sit tight, and wait........everyone wants to see fast trades and faster results but i like the baby steps myself......it assures us of a good long stride for the rest of lives.......I still believe beefing up the defense a lot, and adding a few more offensive spots can get us there........here's to a good draft..........smitty
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So you think we\'re going to vastly improve our defense this upcoming season via the draft alone? B/c the guys we\'ve picked up so far are basically crap. How is waiting a good plan? So next year we have a nominal upgrade at MLB and a downgrade at safety, b/c there\'s no way Mitchell will be as good as Knight in his first year. So if the team has the same level of talent, why will the results be any different?
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yes, i do........but if solid defense players are obtainable, they will go that route first providing they get what they want.....which is what i\'d like to see to an extent. you need leadership in team players, i repeat, team players. althought the draft does not guarantee team players, i like the odds better......just my opinion.,.....do i think we upgraded with what we aquired? yes, i do......the inside info with the draft as to who will pick who is still talk till it\'s announced.....yes, many have undeniable needs, but it\'s been proven too many times that is\'nt the case come pick time.........i believe the offense is intact and with a couple of more upgrades, we are solid......the defense can really only improve from what i\'ve seen the last couple of years and besides young veterans, the draft is always the way to go.........let\'s keep an eye on purcells, he\'s dealing, but he likes the draft too......i\'ll bet a six pack he looks to get more draft picks if he can....smitty............p.s. i look for a major upgrade at safety and or corner and would be very disappointed if it does\'nt happen. until a good deal comes along, i am very happy sitting where we are right now, very happy...........:)
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The guy\'s we\'ve picked up so far are NOT crap. If we pick up Tebucky our defense gets better. If we could get Woodson through draft picks and $$ we\'re laughing. We\'ve got money now without that toe-headed mad man. The Saints could do without troublemakers for once.
God bless America. |
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In response to Mr. Negative\'s comments, I believe the Saints knew EXACTLY what they were doing. They went out and signed a LB, CB, and LT. They knew they needed depth, but felt that CB wasn\'t their biggest issue. They needed more help at linebacker and addressed that, also. I\'m not sure how Ruff is going to do for the Saints, but I think he\'s an upgrade. As for signing Gandy, that was just ingenious. The organization knew that if they could dump Turley with all his b\'n and m\'n, then they needed an established LT. That they got. Turley SUCKED at LT. Gandy is a PROVEN starter at LT. Case should be closed on that subject. They replaced a good punter with another good punter. They replaced a good back-up that could\'ve started anywhere with another good back-up that could possibly start anywhere. They resigned some key role players in John Carney, Fred McAfee, and Martin Chase. Now that they traded Turley, they gave up the same amount of cap space that they\'re going to spend on trading for Tebucky Jones. Now the Saints will be more willing to trade that second rounder for him. That\'s a serious upgrade from last season. I SERIOUSLY DO THINK that the Saints will improve through the draft because they are sitting VERY pretty. As I\'ve seen everything fall into place, I can\'t help but sit in awe of what the Saints have done. I know it may not seem like a lot to you, Whodat. To me, on the other hand, I\'m totally impressed. They proved that they aren\'t suckers.
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I like what the Saints have done so far in the off-season. Not hoping and praying some of the big names will come down South, but making sure the team won\'t fall apart by signing solid players first. A big name signing may still happen. They didn\'t overspend on any player unlike Detroit or the Redskins.
HOWEVER I\'m not convinced our defense will be vastly improved or improved at all. Our DEs and OLBs are (relatively) young and have room for improvement. The CB position has depth, but there will be problems against certain types of players (do we play the Vikings this year? I hope not). Now ... the middle. Everyone knows we still need a Safety. Mitchell, the other starting safety is probably one of the worst starting SS in the league (you are free to disagree). We still need a DT to line up next to Jackson. Plus we have to hope Jackson gets his weight down. What if he doesn\'t? We\'re in trouble. We have to hope Ruff is the player we expect him to be. It may be misleading, but remember: He didn\'t start a single game last season. If he is \"crap\" we are in deep trouble. I\'m saying little about the draft right now because I do expect the Saints to make some kind of deal. The best we can hope for (at least immediately, meaning this year) is a DT who makes an impact. The other first round selection - if we keep it - will be a project player or Witten. I wouldn\'t even hate them if they go for Witten. I stand by my prediction that our defense will stink this year. Maybe not as bad as last year, but still pretty smelly. [Edited on 22/3/2003 by nocloning] |
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aaahhhhhh, to be the head coach, what would i do? i would love to see everyone\'s mock drafts and fantasies on the saints picks and trades to come.......a case to the one closest, when all is said and done, just tell me where to send it........and from experience i have found although dixie is an acquired taste, it is also excellent for removing catfish slime when fishing............smitty
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I have said since I was blue in the face, the draft is not going to have an immediate impact. Most of these players are projects. We have missed our great improvement opportunity. The free agents just kept passing us by. Gator, I know you don\'t agree.
A couple of facts: I have heard we are in a rebuilding year for many years. The object is to win, and sooner than later. The other thing with draft picks is the fact that by the time they have worth,they are ready to go,or we let them go. How many \"key\" draft picks from the last 4 years are still with us. Stallworth should have a better year,but I know he had some physical problems, but it takes maturity time for the NFL. We don\'t want to spend real money on real players...............Has Loomis kept his promise to Horn yet? We need some key free agent players to win............point blank. |
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The free agents that become available for the best value come after the June cuts. You only agressively pursue the early free agents that are must haves at any price. So far we have immediately upgraded LT, depth at CB, MLB, and minimized the loss at QB. It has not been a wasted effort so far. Much of the remaining free agent plans must wait until the draft plays out. If they have serious thought of drafting a MLB to groom behind Ruff, wh sign a starting one unless they miss out on the guy they want in the draft. Believe me guys, I\'m as eager as the next guy every year when names like Takeo Spikes, Roosevelt Colvin, and Chris McAlister appear, but to waste your whole cap space on two players when upgrades are needed in 5 or more areas is silly. A team is only as strong as it\'s weakest link. We had too many to only get two great players when we needed 6 good ones.
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Thank God WhoDat doesn\'t run this team. We\'d be in serious trouble and he\'d get fired.
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In regard to WhoDat\'s comments, Mel Mitchell, if he doesn\'t trip on his shoelace coming off the bench is an upgrade over Jay Bellamy. If we get Tebucky Jones, the Jones/Knight offset is a wash at the least. Jones gives more athleticism, better range, equal or better special teams play, and more youth. I love Sammy Knight and truly hope that even if we get Tebucky Jones, I\'d prefer to see us field Knight and Jones and let Mel Mitchell spend another season in spot duty and special teams before Knght leaves.
Ruff upgrades MLB over Clemons (although I like Clemons as a pass rush OLB), Ambrose is better than Ken Irvin, and Gandy is a better LT than Turley when you factor the intangibles. The moves are for the better, but as you state, not taking us to that higher level we need to be at. The draft won\'t do that either, but my hope is the blockbuster player is still to come before we enter training camp. |
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just went fishing in texas, dallas area, boy, do i miss buras and empire and grand isle, and just about anywhere in louisiana. don\'t miss the sqeeters and gnats thought....but do miss the homeboys and girls.......and food, ummmmmmmmmm. I will not blow smoke up anyone\'s hole but the saints team of today is the best they\'ve ever had, period.....you can say we had better defenses but not offense from the years i recall...you see teams now like the patriots and bucks winning super bowls and wonder where did they come from? building and smart moves along with luck, thats how....that\'s the direction i finally see the saints heading for, whether they get there is yet to be seen. on the turley trade, it\'s history. another good pick for next year and freed salary cap for this year, i\'m happy. as i said, we need team leaders, with the key word team. there are many diamonds in the rough in the draft and hopefully we\'ll get a few, take care..........smitty p.s. to all, everyone, not just me likes to see mock drafts. let\'s see a few, thanks......
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it is now rumored that jones and loomis have worked out a contract agreement that now only requires the compensation of the patriots to be worked out, this from the physco man. rumors, but from a good source.......smitty
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well, i\'ll just have to face the wrath of the grammar king for that one...my thoughts on this possible rumor coming true is this......i feel the saints are looking for as many non trouble makers as they can get, (that can walk the walk.) I believe they said the deal will be for 5 years and if the front office is satisfied, i will be too.....although i really liked sammy, (he wants more money too and i don\'t blame him) maybe, just maybe, jones will fit in. we shall see, smitty
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You know, you guys are nuts. Billy, I\'m glad that you are happy that I don\'t run this team. Frankly, if you were behind me I\'d be scared. But to all you obvious football geniouses that think we\'ve improved SO much on defense - here you go. Ruff vs. Clemons, side by side.
Ruff 2002 - started 0 games, had 14 tackles, 0 assists, 0 sacks, 0 INTs, 0 forced fumbles, and 0 fumble recoveries 2001 - Started 14 games, had 59 tackles, 15 assists, 1 sack, 0 INTs, 1 forced fumble, and 1 fumble recovery. Clemons 2002 - Started 15 games, had 58 tackles, 24 assists, 0.5 sacks, 0 INTs, 2 forced fumlbes, and 3 fumble recoveries. 2001 - Started 15 games, had 75 tackles, 18 assists, 13.5 sacks, 1 INT, 2 forced fumbles, and 1 fumble recovery. Clemons year last year, when his play dropped off considerably, was still better than Ruff\'s BEST year ever. Ruff got beat out for the job last year. Now, could this guy be the next Joe Horn? Have the Saints discovered another talent that the rest of the league just happened to miss? Maybe. But he could just as easily be the next Albert Connell too. We could get WORSE at MLB. Add Knight\'s leaving to the mix and if we don\'t find a stud safety then our defense got WORSE talent wise. Oh wait, we picked up Ambrose. If they let Craver stay at corner he should end up being better than Ambrose THIS year. Plus a corner in the draft and that Ambrose move will become meaningless. Sure, there are some good veterans cut in June that we can go sign. I don\'t dispute that. But the top talent at its position goes in the first month of free agency in most cases. The Saints, sat on their hands and giant pile of money and watched the kinds of players we need go by. Can the Saints still improve? Yeah, b/c they haven\'t done anything to get better yet. But you guys watch - if this team does not make significant moves to bring in better players on defense be ready for an average year at best. Right now, TODAY, our safeties are worse than they were at the end of the season. Our corners are no better. Sure we added depth - but how can you add depth without adding talent in a secondary that is supposedly so terrible? Great, so they added another average player? We don\'t need average, we need good or great. As for MLB, Ruff is a huge question mark. All I know is that strictly by the numbers he is not as good as Clemons. I think when the season starts he probably will be, but you simply don\'t know (see David Sloan, Albert Connell, Curtis Keaton, hell even Norman Hand). |
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\"I have some doubts about the current LB. core outside and they may well re-visit those thoughts after the draft, but their lack of intense interest tells me that they feel secure about the LB. core. I can\'t say I agree with their assessment of what they have , especially on the edges, unless Sedrick Hodge really takes his play up a notch or two.\"
- Mike Detillier |
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I feel more comfortable with Hodge than I do with Allen, but that\'s not really saying all that much, as I\'ve felt we needed to address OLB since the end of last year *cough* Colvin *cough*. But he\'s no longer a FA, and I have this eerie feeling that the Saints will draft Bailey if he\'s there, cause we need help, and Haslett is in love with him. That would be fine with me if, and only if, the Saints are convinced that Hand will return to the type of player he was two years ago, and no, I won\'t hold my breath.
I understand what they are trying to do, but I don\'t have a comfortable feeling about it. Defense wins football games. When Carter/Howard are your impact players on defense, that\'s not really saying a whole lot. |
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no one wants to see the saints go all the way more than i do...... well, maybe a few,but again, i state my opinion as others so take it for whatever..........as we sit today on the 24th of march 2003 i\'ll put my money where my mouth is no matter what happens with trades or drafts. whodat, i\'ll bet a case the saints will go one better than last year, 10-6 and make the playoffs, beyond that i may bet more they\'ll go further depending on how they look, no, hell, i\'ll bet a case they\'ll go 10-6 and win the first playoff game, care to make a friendlly wager? smitty
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Are we assuming that there are no major free agent additions on defense this year? B/c, if you\'ve read what I have said - it states that IF they don\'t add MORE high-qulaity free agents on D, then they will not be better. If that scenario holds true then I will absolutely take that bet. If the add a chris claiborne or tebucky jones then all bets are off.
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1, Of course we\'re nuts. We\'re Saints fans.
2. Frankly, if I were behind you, you should be scared. 3. I could be wrong, but I don\'t think ANYONE on here thinks we\'ve \"improved SO much on defense\". I think that we\'ve got pretty rational minds (well, most of us \"football geniouses\" anyhoo) on here that think we\'re pretty good on D. Not GREAT I\'ll give you, but we don\'t think that the D sucks as much as you think it does WhoDat. 4. Here are better stats on Clemons vs. Ruff over their first 4 years. Not Ruff\'s 3rd & 4th and Clemons\' 5th & 6th. Which is a more even way of comparing the guys than the way you did it. After all, apply that same statistical logic to Deuce and Ricky and you\'d have to say it was a horrible trade and that Deuce would\'ve sucked after his 1st year. Ruff Year G GS Tack Asst Sacks Int Frc Fumb Fumb Rec Fumb RYd Def TD 2002 16 0 14 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2001 16 14 59 15 1 0 1 1 0 0 2000 16 14 54 14 0 1 0 1 0 0 1999 14 0 5 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 Clemons Year G GS Tack Asst Sacks Int Frc Fumb Fumb Rec Fumb RYd Def TD 2001 16 15 75 18 13.5 1 2 1 0 0 1999 16 0 30 4 3 1 0 1 0 0 1998 16 0 13 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 1997 5 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Clemons never even started on that vaunted Rams D. Understandable tho with all the studs they had. Ruff was beat out by a Pro-bowler - Donnie Edwards. Wait, now I\'m pissed! Why didn\'t we sign Edwards last year??? Aww man...what a bummer. Surely there\'s a post on here from WhoDat somewhere lambasting the Saints for not signing him last year when we could\'ve? I\'ll refrain from a stop whining comment. We\'ve a slew of draft picks and plenty of time left. The rest of the off-season will play out much better than you\'re forecasting. And, we\'ll be better than you think. Gator, that grammar thing was pretty funny..... :P |
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I haven\'t forecasted a single thing about the off-season. I\'ve forecasted that if the Saints don\'t bring in some experienced impact players on defense that this team will be no better than next year.
I\'m glad that you \"pretty rational minds\" believe that the 26th RANKED DEFENSE in the league equates to \"pretty good on D. Not GREAT\". Yeah, that means there are 6 teams in the league that are worse than us and 25 that are better. My god you are rational!! Why didn\'t my logical thought process bring me to that conclusion? PS - those stats aren\'t comparable - know why? B/c they don\'t show Clemons\' play right now, which even with his poor performance last year was better than ANY year in Ruff\'s history as a pro. Oh, and weren\'t you talking earlier in the off-season about how we needed to bring in proven free agents? Ruff fits that mold? And how about that safety we brought in to replace our PRO BOWL safety... oh, wait, there hasn\'t been a safety brought in, or a DT, or a shutdown corner, or a TE, or a backup to Deuce, or ANY player at ANY position of need that both WE and THE SAINTS MANAGEMENT identified as areas of need weeks ago. |
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Yoda speaks, everyone shall listen...... i think the saints offseason has been ummm moderate to this point, we have added depth at most positions of \"need\" with solid players, maybe not the \"superstars\" everyone hopes for, but the players we did get are good football players, lets not kid ourselves here, the saints have never been one to go out and sign the overpriced superstars, but to try to find the diamonds in the rough, and this offseason is no different.....i suspect that the saints will sit tight with their 2 first round picks unless someone tries to deal down out of the top 10 but for the right price....1st n 3rd to move up maybe.... doubt it, but maybe...... if the saints do move up, i think that it will be to pick up a DT, which, in my opinion, is the area of greatest need at this point, but i really think that we will stay put.. 2 first rounders 2 years in a row, is a real boost of talent
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whodat, the bet is, no matter what happens with trades or drafts. and not to assume with the addition(did i spell that right) of a defensive back(so called good um) you\'re seeing us in the playoffs as well, but the writing sure looks fuzzy on the wall......smitty
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Well smitty, the writing on the wall is pretty clear to me. Read what I\'ve said, not what you think I\'m saying. I have not once said that the Saints will not make the playoffs without the caviat \"unless they improve their talent on defense.\" I\'m not going to bet you that they won\'t now, just to see the Jones trade go through and then watch them pick up Woodson and Claiborne. That is a HUGELY different defensive team. My point is not that the Saints will suck. It\'s that they\'re not doing enough in free agency to insure themselves from another year like last year. Do you understand that now? I know that obviously means that I\'m a bad Saints fan, b/c I don\'t have blind faith in their ability to win... but frankly I\'d rather be called a bad fan and have the ability to come to decisions myself, than be considered a good fan whose only opinions come from the Saints organization and the New Orleans media that loves it.
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http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/gen...ageId=10435965
Claiborne is now off the market, officially. Is he the last good LB that was on the market? I can\'t even keep track anymore, but I believe he was. |
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No way - Ruff is your middle linebacker, Allen will start at OLB. Ruff isn\'t even close to being fast enough to play outside. I cannot believe that they didn\'t go after a top-ten talent at MLB in free agency. It\'s one thing to not sign one, it\'s another to not even have made a move for one. It just keeps getting more unbelievable to me. From not playing Delhomme when all we needed was one win, to what they\'re doing (or not doing I should say) in free agency. At this rate I\'m expecting them to draft McGahee in the first round.
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...heh heh, or better yet, trade the entire draft away to the Bengals for the 1st pick in the draft, so we can get Palmer :P
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yea whodat.... and then playing him at MLB lmao
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Hey, if you ask iceshack he will probably tell you that it\'s the best idea they\'ve ever had. After all, Loomis and Haslett are great football minds... didn\'t you know that Pak? What more could you ask for out of a draft?
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O.k. Loomis and Haslett are great minds. Gotcha. Next?
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Iceshack - I know you were kidding when you asked for Whodatology, but you know what, you need it. So welcome ALL to
WHODATOLOGY 101 - Effective Strategies for Debate There are a few important ideas to keep in mind when you are debating on any topic. Good debate starts with an assertion of one’s opinion. That assertion should be followed up by facts, evidence, empirical evidence, whatever you want to call it, that supports the original statement. Sarcasm and wit may be utilized at times, but doing so may be tricky. The focus should always remain on the discussion. Making comments about a member of the debate usually only serves to illustrate your own ignorance, immaturity, or inability to discuss the merits of a case. Here is a good example of what to do when debating. 1. Start with an assertion. If the Saints don’t improve the talent level on their defense by signing some impact players, they will not improve as a team next year and run a very high risk of missing the playoffs. 2. Follow that up with evidence supporting your assertion. A. Despite having one of the best offenses in the league last year (and maybe the best offense a Saints team has ever had), the New Orleans Saints lost a number of games because their 26th ranked defense could not stop even the worst teams from posting great numbers. Although the Saints offense seemed to be able to score at will on its opponents at times, the defense seemed more inept than any defense in the Saints’ recent history – giving up 20 points or more in 15 of 16 games. B. According to Saints management, the problem lies not in poor play by any member of their offense, but in the personnel on defense. Thus, with plenty of cap room, draft picks, and available players, the Saints, media, and fans alike expected to see a number of big free agent signings and draft picks dedicated solely to the defense this off-season. So far, the only free agent signing that could be considered to included a “big-name� or “big-money� player came on offense, with the signing of Wayne Gandy. C. While Jim Haslett may see the problem with the team being rooted surely in the defensive personnel, it is hard to believe that Defensive Coordinator, Rick Venturi, did not play a big part in the Saints’ failures on defense. The fact that Venturi has been in the league for 20 years, and never served as much more than a positions coach (with the exception of last year and a couple of stints as interim head coach – where he also failed miserably, albeit under less that stellar circumstances), leads me to believe that the man is not capable of serving in such a high post. The defense’s play only proved that when compared to the year prior. D. The other teams in the NFC have all made moves to get better. All of them played their best football of the year at the end of the season last year, at the same time that the Saints were playing their worst. (A further explanation of both of these points will be made available at your request). With the NFC South already being one of the toughest divisions in football, and our opponents getting better, our failure to act in the off-season will become exponentially more apparent in the upcoming season, should the Saints continue on this route through free agency. E. The players that the Saints have signed in this off-season, especially on the defense, have not significantly improved the talent level of the team. This remains the Saints largest area of need. Defensive Tackle, Middle Linebacker, Corner, and Safety remain problem areas where significant improves can be made. F. The Saints have not effectively managed their cap situation this off-season. With the fourth or fifth most money available under the cap coming into free agency, they have done nothing to sign impact players. Further, their failure to restructure or release Norman Hand and Wally Williams continues to eat up nearly $10 million in cap space that could be much better used to sign impact free agents on defense. G. The Saints still have potential. They have plenty of money and draft picks that can be used to improve their defense. If they can pull together the right personnel their defense may find itself ranked somewhere in the middle of the league next season. With an average defense and an offense that looks to be even better (especially if Aaron Brooks and Deuce McAllister stay healthy, and the Saints get some production from a Tight End or Receiver in the middle of the field), the Saints may be poised for a run at the NFC South title. However, without improvements on defense, that seems very unlikely. I hope that this example has been helpful to those of you who do not know how to debate effectively. You should also look into these other classes: “The Proper Use of Sarcasm�, taught by Professor Pakowitz “Conflict Resolution 101�, taught by Professor Gatorman “The Art of Diplomacy�, taught by Professor Lumm0x Thank you for your time. I hope that you have enjoyed this seminar on effective strategies for debate. Now iceshack – why don’t you try to debate what I am saying based on the merits of my argument. I dare you. B/c all I’ve seen so far from you is sarcasm and a tendency to avoid the issue at hand. Frankly, that doesn’t impress me. Here’s your chance to show us all that you know a thing or two about Saints football. Obviously, you don’t agree with what I’ve said, so prove to me why I am wrong. |
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hehe.............. :exclam:
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Good lord people I can\'t believe you\'re not fuming because we\'ve not addressed fixing the 19th ranked Offense in the NFL last year!! I am just incensed by it! Have you people lost your freakin minds?? The Giants were better than us! The Seahawks were better than us! And for Christ\'s sake, even the Bengal’s were even better than us! I cannot believe you\'re not outraged that were not signing \"MORE high-quality free agents\" on O!! If we don\'t, then we \"will not be better\". You\'re all settling for a pretty good O. Great! That is GREAT….Just friggin Great! We have to do SOMETHING to stop the bleeding! My God people, we were 19th???? Worse than the Bengals?? I think I will slit my wrists and then get a job that will allow me to logon to the board every 2 hours ( or, maybe one with less servers) and post diatribe after diatribe. The sky is falling! The sky is falling! Everyone grab a high-priced free agent and hide under them quick!!
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billyh, i believe the saints have to address offense as well, but not like we have to address defense. with who we had last year and the way they performed, well, it was\'nt what many expected......... i expect the saints to address the offense in the draft as well. anyway, remember many years ago when the saints would not pay wesley walls the money and carolina got him, i truely believe we lost the best tight end the saints had ever had........an impact player all around who proved it in carolina. can someone in n.o. find the person responsible for the mojo whammy cast on the saints from the beginning? even if they\'re dead and buried we should be able to find someone to remove the spell........i suspect maybe by just naming them the saints a voodoo queen may have become upset.........oh well, so many beers, sooo little time....smitty
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