Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix...
 

Have you had it done to your family?

Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix...
 

Have I had what done to my family?

And at any rate why happened to my family or yours or anyone else's hadn't got one thing in this world to do with the law in Arizona.

Nobody here is trying to say racism doesn't exist. The topic is the illegal immigration law in Arizona. I am interested to know why you think it's racist, and unless your family has had some experience there with ICE or border patrol, whatever wrongs may have been perpetrated against them isn't relevant.

And again, I'm not trying to be pissy with you man, but I think you're being a good deal liberal with the "R" word as it relates to immigration, but I'm willing to listen if you're willing to explain.

Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix...
 

This is a shame..i have to say Bush atleast stood up for the mexicans..they do all his ranchwork ..go figure...

Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix...
 

Ok, so, I'm just going to stop adding to this thread. If you think the law is racist, please explain why - you aren't the only one who either feels that way or feels the need to use the term 'racist' with regards to illegal immigration.

If you'd like to explain I'd love to have the discussion, otherwise this isn't going to have a very happy ending me thinks. LOL

Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix...
 

The continuation is in the chatbox...lol

Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix...
 

:rolleyes:

Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix...
 

What your dad experienced and what's happening in AZ are two different things Strato. One is racist idiots and one is the law - and we've all felt the pain of both... Just for a frame of reference, I lived and worked in New Mexico for 6 years. I employed Mexicans (both legal and illegal), I dated a girl who's family had emigrated from Mexico. I ate at their homes, I worked side by side in vineyards picking grapes. I understand why immigration should work.

Bottom line is this (and just like I said before): The AZ law is the same as the U.S. law that is not being enforced.

Gov't in AZ is actually doing something about the people who are breaking their laws.

Illegal immigration has gone on for too long and we're now seeing the effects of millions of undocumented people added to our systems. Our current economic woes only magnify the issue.

America has come a long way since the Civil Rights movement and is a world leader in race/social relations...There's no way we're regressing at this stage.

BUT - this is not about racism or what happened to someone's family in the past. It's about the citizens of our nation being protected from illegals who are coming to America to commit crimes (and being an undocumented worker is a crime). NO, that doesn't mean that ALL people here illegally are bad people - it's quite the opposite. The majority of Hispanic illegals who have come here to do better for themselves are in fact law-abiding people.

BUT - many foreigners come to the US LEGALLY to work and then go back home. Follow the rules and then you're not killing our systems. (public schools, taxes, social security, etc).

Strato, this is a very sensitive subject by nature and one that we are all clearly passionate about for different reasons. My objective was not to draw you into an argument. I wanted to hear more of your explanation of WHY you thing this law is "racist". I even commented that I liked a point you made, but thought that you should elaborate...Don't think I'm attacking your beliefs - I just wanted to hear more of your opinion.

Ty

Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix...
 

TMW

Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix...
 

I am amazed at the number of people I've talked with on this issue that aren't aware of...well...a lot of things. A point I've made lately that seems to at least register with the anti-AZ crowd is this:

The United States is very popular - duh. No matter how much mud the rest of the world slings in our direction they want in - and they'll break laws and risk their lives attempting to cross oceans in tiny little boats to get here. In recognition of this, The United States put quotas in place, on a per country basis, such that only so many people from a given country will be allowed in legally in a given time frame. The backlog is decades long in some cases. Why is it then that America should simply turn its back on the Mexican border? Why should we grant amnesty to 11 million + people that broke the rules? Are those mexicans, no matter how honest or hard-working they may be, any more deserving than the guy in Zimbabwe who also wants a better life for his family? Would we be able to allow more people in, legally, from all over the world, if we managed to somehow stop the annual millions from streaming into the country illegally across our southern border?

Well, the answer is, obviously, yes, or at least maybe. Fair is fair, and the law is the law, and the people in Arizona have EVERY RIGHT to protect their border, just as those in Texas and California SHOULD be protecting theirs, as is written BY LAW, Federally.

All this nonsense - and all these people getting all hot and bothered and up in arms about the law in Arizona is a bunch of hogwash and political posturing for the legal Mexican vote. It IS that simple.

Oh, and I can assure every one of you, if the Canadians were breaching our Northern borders at the rate the Mexicans are breaching our southern border, those northern states would be pressing for enforcement of the Federal Law and passing laws of their own just like Arizona - and no one here or anywhere else would be calling them racist. ;)

Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix...
 

Again its racial profiling...very simple to understand...and i dont have to type ten paragraphs to say those few words...but us arguing it wont change any aspect of this issue...i am done..

Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix...
 

I know we've discussed it, but you need to provide some examples. HOW is it racial profiling? Providing examples of personal experience or of racial profiling in general isn't sufficient to show the AZ law (or the federal one for that matter) as racial profiling.

Again, the AZ law does not extend as far as the Federal law, which would have been struck down by the supreme court long ago had it been deemed racial profiling.

Securing our borders and deporting people in this country illegally isn't racial profiling.

Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix...
 

SF you know how i feel and you were in agreement for the most par tin chat the other nite..lets let it ride ..training camp is getting close..

Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix...
 

I agree it is a problem Strato, but I do NOT agree that something shouldn't be done, and I absolutely 100% with emphasis do NOT agree that the AZ law is racist. And the more I think about it the more I think another round of amnesty would be a huge mistake.

But yes, training camp is coming...thank God! :)

What we need here is a political forum. LOL

Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix...
 

If you're breaking a law it's criminal - not racial.

Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix...
 

Yet given the meaninglessness of so many of the potential criteria that law enforcement might consider, the one that may end up counting most is race. "In practice, it is inevitable that this law will lead to racial profiling," says David Cole, a Georgetown University Law Center professor who has studied the issue in depth. "People don't wear signs saying that they are illegal immigrants, nor do illegal immigrants engage in any particular behavior that distinguishes them from legal immigrants and citizens. So police officers will not stop white people, and will stop Latinos, especially poor Latinos."

The truth is that the new law is absolutely about race, and if lawmakers condone racial profiling in any form, it could guide policing practices that would have a profound negative impact on all people of color, not just Latinos, who are "suspected" of not belonging. "Reasonable suspicion" without specific criteria is extraordinarily subjective, and threatens to violate the personal freedoms we cherish.

Embedded in this law--and the public discourse on racial profiling--is the erroneous assumption that people of color commit most crimes in this country. While racial disparities certainly exist for people of color in contact with the criminal justice system, whites (including those who identify as white Hispanic) officially constitute 69.2 percent of individuals who are arrested for committing crimes in this country. Of course, there is no sense in calling for a racial profiling bill that focuses on white Americans. To assume or assign culpability based upon any person's racial or ethnic categorization is not only discriminatory and irrational; it is a tremendous waste of public resources.

Criminalization, particularly in this economy, is not a sound response to the issue of immigration. It is, however, a potential assault on the liberties of people who are American citizens and who, because of their racial and ethnic classification alone, would be prone to discriminatory harassment. Our collective response to immigration reform must not be rooted in an endorsement of racial profiling or tied to costly and punitive incarceration. Instead, it must be comprehensive

Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix...
 

LMAO. Strato, have you read the law yet? There is nothing in that law that allows the police to stop anyone BECAUSE they are black, brown, white, yellow, or purple. There is NO evidence that this law (or the federal one that has been around a LOT longer) has generated profiling. NONE. If you disagree then find it and post it here.

This guy quoted, David Cole, is about a liberal as any human being can be, so it is not surprising that someone hollering 'racism' would post information from the single most liberal man on the planet. This is the opinion of people clearly one-sided on the debate.

The writer of the article gives the term liberalism a new definition. She's straight out of UC Berkley. You know anything about UC Berkely Strato? Their students parade signs over I-80 here EVERY day that read "Free Leonard". The Leonard they speak of MURDERED 2 FBI agents and was convicted in 1977 - he's still in jail.

All this to mean this little snippet is about as biased as they come, with no supporting evidence. You're going to want to try again I think...

That is a complete and total lie. No such thing is 'embedded' in the Arizona law nor is any such thing embedded in the FEDERAL law - which is why this little piece suggests it but fails to quote any real text. READ THE LAW please, and then quote the section of the law where this is "Embedded". What a load of horse crap.

A white guy, a black guy, and a mexican guy are all standing on the banks of the rio grand, on the American side. Which one is the 'most likely' to be in the country illegally? You may not LIKE the answer to that question, but that doesn't make it any less realistic, and you can scream racism until you're blue in the face, but it doesn't change anything.

Criminalization of a thing is what happens to a thing when it is ILLEGAL, which crossing into our country in the dead of night without the proper paperwork surely is. So now, according you to and this liberal nut job you quoted, we're not allowed to stop you or question you because you're Mexican? THAT, my friend, is racism...in reverse.

Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix...
 

Tell the truth ..dont you think the police will be looking for Mexicans in particular?....What would that be considered?..spic hunting?...

Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix...
 

Why don't we wait and look at the police stats after 6 months or so and THEN talk about it? To answer your question, no, the law doesn't provide for it. But the first time the cops stop a Mexican in Arizona for something here will come the racists. That's what the over-the-top criers of racism will do. Betcha. ;)

Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix...
 

But the real question is.. will they stop my avatar?...lol.....bet they would..lol

Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix...
 

Dude "I" would stop your avatar. Are you kidding? LMAO

Re: MLB Pressured to Pull All-Star Game from Phoenix...
 

For what - smuggling melons? :)