Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

"I think some people like strawberry ice cream and some people like vanilla. They're both pretty good," Brandt explained Wednesday on SiriusXM NFL Radio. "Some like red heads and some like blondes. I think if you took 10 people, probably six of the 10 would take Johnson, and four, including myself, would take Julio Jones. I just think the whole package, I like Julio a little bit better than Johnson."

Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says - NFL.com

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Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

A little far fatched, but not by much. Julio is a freak and will only get better. I'm pulling for him, he's one of my favorite non-Saints and I hope someday he leaves the Falcons for a different team.

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

You know, Gil, I wish I could think of such an intellectual breakdown of my opinion. "Some people like strawberry ice cream and some people like vanilla". Brilliant. We have determined that Julio Jones might be better than Calvin Johnson, because some people like Julio's flavor better.

Calvin Johnson churns out 200 yard games with guys draped all over him, knowing that he IS their offense. Julio Jones pulls his hamstring if he has to work too hard for a catch. He's not consistent even when healthy. There is no comparison.

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

I'm sorry. In my younger years I tried to protect the innocent from stupidity. I failed. Gil Brandt got away. I just couldn't get them all. I tried.

To all of humanity I apologize. I tried. Truly I tried.

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

I usually really likeswha Gil Brandt has to say but this wasn't his best. That not saying JJ is a bad reciever or won't eventually surpass CJ but as of now it isn't even close.

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

You know, I pride myself on considering both sides of an issue, in most cases. Then a guy like this comes along with something like this that makes me want to totally disregard everything I stand for ...

"WTF ?!"

What is it with these guys and the love affair with Atlanta? It's just like the Matt Ryan debate. Never mind these guys aren't setting records or winning SuperBowls, we're supposed to believe they're better than the players who are. And why? Because Jones has "stronger, more reliable hands in addition to his fluidity." :rofl: 'Fluidity'? Is that even a word? Are we talking about catching passes in the NFL or cleaning drains?

Come on, this is a joke, right? Gil Brandt writes for the Onion, right?

This is Calvin's time. Undisputed. Bet.

When I think about the wide receiver debate, I put Larry Fitzgerald in front of Julio Jones anyway.

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

Calvin does more with less talent around him.

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

Julio has some awesome ability, but he's not better than megatron. He makes some amazing catches for us though. I'm glad TD traded up for him. That's one of the best descisions he's ever made.

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

Usually Brandt is pretty spot-on, but I can't agree here. I like Julio - as a Bama fan, not a Failcons one - but he wasn't even the most productive WR on his own TEAM this season.

And frankly, Natty Arse is a slightly-better QB than Matt Stafford.

Johnson produces more with less around him - no quality #2 WR, no consistent running game, shaky O-line - so I gotta give him the edge. No doubt Julio is up-and-coming fast, though.

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

There used to be a time when the editor of a newspaper would read what their one sportswriter with an opinion wrote, and make a decision as to whether the piece had any merit. Today, that has been replaced by the number of unique web hits.

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

I have to disagree there. Any qb that throws for 5,000 yards in a season is elite or soon to be. The lions lost eight games by seven points or less and five of them they were in position to win at the end. As for JJ being better, no way. If that were the case why does he not show up in some games. And if Ryan was better than Stafford then would that falcons offense be putting up the points the lions do in their games? the lions do score points, its their defense that hasnt done well.

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

All valid points, and god knows I've been defending the Lions for 40+yrs, but the fact remains they always find a way snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and I'm tired of sticking up for them. Stafford vs Ryan is a great debate. I put 'em both in that second tier but I think when Mut10 says Ryan is 'slightly better', he may have a point (blech! puke! choke!, can't believe I'm saying that!). Stafford arguably does more with less, but is always fighting off some sort of injury and has yet to notch a playoff win, so I give a slight edge to Ryan (blech! puke! choke!).

It's one of them deals where you'd like to see them switch places and see how they do.

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

The Lions O/line is actually one of the better lines in the pass-blocking department, run-blocking not so much. I say this not to up Stafford in the Stafford/Ryan debate, but in defense of the much maligned Lions offensive line, which really isn't that bad. :mrgreen:.

Now that I've gotten over the initial shock of the title to the thread, I did notice Brandt said, "they're both pretty good" and "I like Julio a little better then Johnson", so there's some wiggle room there & not a total declaration for Jones.

I kept waiting for Randy Moss to be interfected into the conversation as well, :lol:.

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

If you listen to NFLSirius Gill Brandt is a huge Matt Ryan fan..

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

... a pretty serious character flaw, IMO. :lol:.

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

Yeah, I gave myself some of that Brandt "wiggle room" with the "slightly better." Like you I'd call both Stafford and Ryan second-tier, there's no arguing they're quality starters. I mainly give Ryan an edge for durability (although Stafford did finally play in all 16 games this season) and consistency.

The tale of the tape (2012 Season):

QB Rating: Stafford 79.8, Ryan 99.1
Comp. %: Stafford 59.8%, Ryan 68.6%
Total Yds: Stafford 4,967, Ryan 4,719
TD / INT: Stafford 20 / 17, Ryan 32 / 14
Fumb / Lost: Stafford 6 / 4, Ryan 3 / 2

It's clear to me which QB I'd take in the debate. If you believe the stats don't lie - I personally believe they often do - it's not really close.

Now that I've defended Natty Arse, I'll end this threadjacking and go hang myself. ;)

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

Just thoroughly wash out those Ratty Mice thoughts with some battery acid. I can't promise that you'll survive, but at least it'll burn the negative memories from your mind. ;)

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

So, let's say, for the sake of argument, we take Julio and Calvin out of the equation.
Who is the Lions' #2 WR? (without looking i up)
Who is the Lions' #1 TE? (without looking it up)
How good is the Lions' O-line at keeping Stafford upright in comparison to Matty Melt and his O-line? BTW, I am no math genius, but I believe 6/4 = 3/2 :)
Did Stafford get to play against the Saints D twice last year?

I rest my case.

Oh, and I doing this for your own good :)

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

Thats a dam shame.

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

I like Gil Brandt, and you have to understand he's one of those positive thinking guys that sees the upside in players moreso than the downside.

If you listen to him long enough, and I have listened to him for years now, you can read between the lines. Tepid enthusiasm toward a certain player translates to "this guy friggin sucks".

He's also dead-on right 95% of the time with his comments.

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

Nah SloMo, you have the better QB in Stafford with all his throwing styles. That sidearm almost underhand flick is incredible. Get a solid #2 WR and your Lions are set. Ryan has 2 good wideouts plus the best TE in the game is what makes him impressive. If Gonzales goes this year so will Ryan's success.

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

Ok, I'm gonna' help a brother out because there's now way I can let you go about your day feeling like you just made an argument for Matt Ryan, :lol:. You see, stats are subjective and really only exist to support our own individual viewpoints, so one should never have to feel fully obligated to choosing Matt Ryan over a comparable QB. Feel better? :mrgreen:

Let's go back a season, to that magical/mythical season that comes around for the Lions every decade or so ...

Tale of the Tape/2011

QB Rating: Stafford 97.2, Ryan 92.2
Comp. %: Stafford 63.5%, Ryan 61.3%
Total Yds: Stafford 5038, Ryan 4,177
TD / INT: Stafford 41 / 16, Ryan 29 / 12
Fumb / Lost: Stafford 5 / 4, Ryan 5 / 3 **yes, I know, but remember, stats are subjective.

Playoff record: Stafford 0-1, Ryan 1-5
Career Tackles: Stafford - 1, Ryan - 1 **I was looking for the 'tough guy' quotient

So, I guess you could argue when Stafford has the weapons and/or is healthy, he's your man over Ryan. At least I could. It's all hypothetical, of course, in the court of NFL QB's where you're ultimately judged on playoff wins & SuperBowls, of which there's only one between the two of them.

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

I can answer those without looking it up! ;)

#2 WR - Nate Burleson (injured), Titus Young (headcase/DNP), Ryan Broyles (injured), Mike Thomas? (no), Kris Durham? (no), Brian Robiske? (who?). If you go by catches, it would be Titus Young, which kind of shows you the shape the Lions receiving corps was in.

#1 TE - Brandon "get-that-boy-some-stick 'um" Pettigrew. Tony Scheffler is a close second & a fan favorite, but Brandon usually gets more opportunities to drop passes than Scheffler in any given game.

Lions O/line vs. Falcons O/line - The Lions offensive line is surprisingly good at keeping Stafford upright. The Falcons O/line may be better, but I wouldn't consider this as big a factor in Stafford's passing game as a lack of a decent running game or the fact that the Lions receivers led, or were near the top, of the league in dropped balls.

Playing the Saints defense x2yr - That would have been interesting to see if the Lions could have overcome their own deficiencies and taken advantage of the Saints defense. I'd say "yes" if it wasn't for the fact Brees and the Saints offense would totally demoralize Detroit on the other side of the ball ... oh wait, we saw it in the playoffs last year, :lol:.

Sorry for letting my 'Lions-ness' out, just part of my 'recovery' program, :lol:.

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

Ok, I know you like to argue for argument's sake sometimes, so what are you saying? Jones IS better than Calvin?

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

:lol:, Stafford's had a rough start to his career, injury-wise & having to play for Detroit, but I think he's 'potential unrealized' at this point. We saw what he did in 2011 with a solid receiving corps.

People were really getting on him for the sidearm throws, but you're right, it's part of the kid's style and honestly, he was throwing under duress quite a bit this season, which is where I think the sidearm came from.

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

No, I think its a little far fatched, but not by much. Julio is a freak and will only get better. I'm pulling for him, he's one of my favorite non-Saints and I hope someday he leaves the Falcons for a different team.

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

Oh, just wanted to clarify, :mrgreen: ... and that's kind of where I'm at in the debate. Jones may be the better receiver one day, the potential is certainly there & he's one to watch, just not today. Gotta' put his time in.

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

That cracked me up.:notworthy:

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

Yeah, I'd like to personally apologize to all those who took my recommendation and picked Pettigrew for your fantasy teams, :lol:.

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

You must take into account how much the ball was ran for both seasons, and how many passing attempts there were for each season. At this point, I don't think you can really say that Matt Stafford is much better accurately. Stafford had at least 100 more pass attempts than Ryan during both seasons.

2011 NFL Player Passing Stats - National Football League - ESPN

2012 NFL Player Passing Stats - National Football League - ESPN

We also ran the ball A LOT more than the Lions did. They didn't even qualify for the rushing stats category when the season was over.

2011 NFL Player Rushing Stats - National Football League - ESPN

2012 NFL Player Rushing Stats - National Football League - ESPN

The way both of our offenses were different in 2011 makes it hard to tell who's better accurately. I think Ryan is better than Stafford, but it would be easier to tell if they pass the ball just as much as we do, it could work the other way around. Passing the ball as much as the Lions do really knock your stats down. It's really hard to win passing the ball 45+ times a game.

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

Ok, I gotta' change my avi to field this one. At the end of the day & by my ultimate QB standard (which is playoff/SB wins), I would have to begrudgingly give Ryan the nod on the basis of his recent, single playoff victory. Begrudgingly. I didn't say I was going down without a fight, :lol:.

I want to focus on number of pass attempts because it always comes up. Stafford passes that much 'because he can'. And (noted) the Lions have a mediocre running game. And, when you got a receiver like Calvin Johnson, you build an offense around him & you use him. It's what you do.

But, like you said, passing the ball as much as the Lions do really knock your stats. Mathematically, it works against Stafford. When his receivers are holding onto the ball, as in 2011, it works out great, but when they are at or near the top of the league in drops, as in 2012, it's not so great, which the stats in this thread support. It's a wash, IMO. It's like discounting Ryan having a better playoff record at 1-5 then Stafford (0-1) because the Falcon's have gone to the playoffs more. Follow me?

Accuracy. How do you gauge accuracy when 1/2 of the equation is another guy having to catch the ball? I've seen Stafford thread the needle to Calvin in the endzone through triple-teams, more than once. Maybe not so much in 2012, but in 2011, Stafford was dead on. I'm sure Ryan has his moments, I don't see him play all that much. If we hung a tire from a tree in the backyard and gave both players a bushel basket of footballs to throw through the hoop, my money's on Stafford.

The different philosophy in offenses will always leave room for debate, but the big question is, "had Stafford/Ryan switched places, would Ryan have been as successful playing for the Lions and would Stafford have been as successful playing for the Falcons?" I don't think Ryan would have been as successful and I think Stafford would have taken the Falcons deep into the playoffs and possibly to a SuperBowl. But that's just speculation. Maybe someone could run it through Madden and share the results, if that's possible.

That's cool ESPN doesn't even reference the Lions running stats, that's why most poster don't reference ESPN around here. The "E" is for 'entertainment', they're not the best source of information. Just sayin'. No big deal, rookie mistake. It ain't like they're (the Lions) going to magically have better running stats then Atlanta on another source. But at least the stats will be listed. I do appreciate the time & effort you took in validating your opinion.

And anyway, to stay on topic, Calvin is better than Julio Jones. woop! woop! :mrgreen:.

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

Is this some sort of reverse psychology?

When a team lacks a running game, it puts more pressure on the QB to perform in the passing game. The last point is not arguable, it is a simple fact. That Stafford is putting the numbers he's putting when he has to put the ball in the air as much as he has to (not referring to total yards here, but completion ratio, TD/INT ) with the pressure he has to face because of the lack of a running game, with only 1 threat at WR to throw to (albeit a great one), it is remarkable.

Yet, Stafford's stats are better.

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

Not in 2012. According to who?

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

Calvin Johnson recorded 91 of his 122 receptions, 1,428 of his 1,964 yards, and all five of his 2012 touchdowns against defenses that played six or fewer defenders in the box.

While the statistics strongly hint at Detroit's lack of a viable run game, it also confirms Megatron's dominance versus "pass-stacked defenses." He beats double and triple teams on the regular. Still just 27 years old, Johnson has led the NFL in receiving yards and all wide receivers in fantasy points in back-to-back seasons. A better running game could actually make him more efficient.

Source: ESPN.com

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

Reggie Bush (MIA) will be taking his talents to the Motor City & joining the Detroit Lions. Whether or not it gives them a better running game remains to be seen, but it can't hurt, :lol:. Of course they'll overpay ...

Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says
 

Indianapolis — Lions coach Jim Schwartz would not officially confirm that receiver Calvin Johnson has three broken fingers on one hand, but he certainly didn't deny it.

"I am not going to comment on any of our players' health," he said. "But that's not uncommon for a wide receiver."

Johnson, who played with at least two broken fingers most of the season and managed to break the NFL record for receiving yards in a season, has been seen around town with his hand wrapped.

"We don't have any injury reports this time of year," Schwartz said. "And you know how I am about injuries."

Johnson is expected to be ready for OTAs and training camp.


From The Detroit News: Does Calvin Johnson have broken fingers? Lions aren't saying | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com