New Orleans Saints Rumors: Team Targeting Mike Jenkins

nycsaintfan · 04-05-2013, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by voodooido

If I read it correctly his dead money is 3.5 which would still save us 3.6 mil. My thought is if this is true than he needs cut. Saving 3.6 mil instead of starting a Safety that plays with a brain fart every week.

» Over the Cap- Roman Harper Salary Cap Page

I guess the most frustrating part to this is he is a very good safety inside the box, and for arguments sake is one of the teams best tacklers and pass rushers.

Pass coverage is just something he does not excel in.

voodooido · 04-05-2013, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by nycsaintfan

I guess the most frustrating part to this is he is a very good safety inside the box, and for arguments sake is one of the teams best tacklers and pass rushers.

Pass coverage is just something he does not excel in.

Tell him to put on 15 pds and play OLB!

FinSaint · 04-06-2013, 03:29 AM

Originally Posted by lumm0x

If he was near minimum on a performance based structure I would be on board. Corner depth is crucial.

Agreed, adding either Jenkins or someone like Mack will be important regardless of what happens with the draft.

Originally Posted by voodooido

Saving 3.6 mil instead of starting a Safety that plays with a brain fart every week.

Harper is a good in-the-box strong safety, who excels in the areas that this type of a player should excel in - I can't remember too many occasions when he has been burned because of the mental side of his game.

Harper's worth is dependent on Ryan, his scheme, and whether or not Harper can fit the role of the SS going forward. If he isn't a good fit, they'll probably look to cut ties with him one way or the other. But if he seems like a fit, they'll probably just keep hold of him while maybe trying to do something with his contract to make him more releasable/tradable in the future.

Originally Posted by nycsaintfan

I guess the most frustrating part to this is he is a very good safety inside the box, and for arguments sake is one of the teams best tacklers and pass rushers.

Pass coverage is just something he does not excel in.

Harper is arguably above average in pass coverage when it comes to flats, which is what his type of a SS is expected to be - he is not a FS or a CB.

Originally Posted by voodooido

Tell him to put on 15 pds and play OLB!

If only it would be that simple.

nycsaintfan · 04-06-2013, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

Harper is arguably above average in pass coverage when it comes to flats, which is what his type of a SS is expected to be - he is not a FS or a CB.

At no point did I say he was a free safety or corner. I agree, he does play the flats well. Moving laterally from the line of scrimmage to the flats and out, I think Harper is very good in pass coverage. But once he moves out of that zone he becomes a liability.

FinSaint · 04-06-2013, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by nycsaintfan

At no point did I say he was a free safety or corner. I agree, he does play the flats well. Moving laterally from the line of scrimmage to the flats and out, I think Harper is very good in pass coverage. But once he moves out of that zone he becomes a liability.

Yeah, I didn't mean to say that you were implying that he was a FS or a CB, just that his pass coverage skills should be evaluated as those of an in-the-box SS, not of a FS or a CB.

While that does make him a liability when it comes to dropping back into coverage, I find it hard to be really harsh on him because of that since you wouldn't expect a DT to drop back to cover a TE. I know that may not be the best comparison, but I think it still gets the point across that certain positions can't be expected to cover for other positions' lapses or mistakes in defensive playcalling.

An in-the-box SS is somewhat limited in his role when it comes to pass defense, but if the defensive scheme calls for a player of that type, then I do think they earn their keep quite nicely - as Harper has in the past.

nycsaintfan · 04-06-2013, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

Yeah, I didn't mean to say that you were implying that he was a FS or a CB, just that his pass coverage skills should be evaluated as those of an in-the-box SS, not of a FS or a CB.

While that does make him a liability when it comes to dropping back into coverage, I find it hard to be really harsh on him because of that since you wouldn't expect a DT to drop back to cover a TE. I know that may not be the best comparison, but I think it still gets the point across that certain positions can't be expected to cover for other positions' lapses or mistakes in defensive playcalling.

An in-the-box SS is somewhat limited in his role when it comes to pass defense, but if the defensive scheme calls for a player of that type, then I do think they earn their keep quite nicely - as Harper has in the past.

Fin, either way I think we are on the same page with this. Yes, I do think the Saints need to upgrade the safeties in the secondary. Honestly, we could be much worse off. Harper has his deficiencies but he is experienced and we have won a lot of games with him as our starting strong safety. So with all of that said, I don't want to see the Saints just release him WITHOUT a strong back up plan. He is not great in coverage. But with the new defensive system at least I know we are playing to his strengths. Aggressive play and blitzing the quarterback.

Again, I might be one of the few here who thinks he will be a June 1st cut... but if I am right, then I hope we have a very good back up plan.

|Mitch| · 04-07-2013, 01:59 AM

I can't see Harper being a June 1st casualty, he is too valuable in running situations.

What I do see is Quaddus/Bush getting some playing time in passing situations...

ClintSaints · 04-06-2013, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by nycsaintfan

I guess the most frustrating part to this is he is a very good safety inside the box, and for arguments sake is one of the teams best tacklers and pass rushers.

Pass coverage is just something he does not excel in.

Catching balls that are thrown straight at him is definitely a problem, I agree. lol.

04-05-2013, 10:59 PM	#1
nycsaintfan 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 165	Re: New Orleans Saints Rumors: Team Targeting Mike Jenkins Originally Posted by voodooido If I read it correctly his dead money is 3.5 which would still save us 3.6 mil. My thought is if this is true than he needs cut. Saving 3.6 mil instead of starting a Safety that plays with a brain fart every week. » Over the Cap- Roman Harper Salary Cap Page I guess the most frustrating part to this is he is a very good safety inside the box, and for arguments sake is one of the teams best tacklers and pass rushers. Pass coverage is just something he does not excel in. ClintSaints likes this.
nycsaintfan 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 165

04-05-2013, 11:09 PM	#2
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,843	Re: New Orleans Saints Rumors: Team Targeting Mike Jenkins Originally Posted by nycsaintfan I guess the most frustrating part to this is he is a very good safety inside the box, and for arguments sake is one of the teams best tacklers and pass rushers. Pass coverage is just something he does not excel in. Tell him to put on 15 pds and play OLB!
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,843

04-06-2013, 03:29 AM	#3
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,964	Re: New Orleans Saints Rumors: Team Targeting Mike Jenkins Originally Posted by lumm0x If he was near minimum on a performance based structure I would be on board. Corner depth is crucial. Agreed, adding either Jenkins or someone like Mack will be important regardless of what happens with the draft. Originally Posted by voodooido Saving 3.6 mil instead of starting a Safety that plays with a brain fart every week. Harper is a good in-the-box strong safety, who excels in the areas that this type of a player should excel in - I can't remember too many occasions when he has been burned because of the mental side of his game. Harper's worth is dependent on Ryan, his scheme, and whether or not Harper can fit the role of the SS going forward. If he isn't a good fit, they'll probably look to cut ties with him one way or the other. But if he seems like a fit, they'll probably just keep hold of him while maybe trying to do something with his contract to make him more releasable/tradable in the future. Originally Posted by nycsaintfan I guess the most frustrating part to this is he is a very good safety inside the box, and for arguments sake is one of the teams best tacklers and pass rushers. Pass coverage is just something he does not excel in. Harper is arguably above average in pass coverage when it comes to flats, which is what his type of a SS is expected to be - he is not a FS or a CB. Originally Posted by voodooido Tell him to put on 15 pds and play OLB! If only it would be that simple. dizzle88 likes this.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

04-06-2013, 03:24 PM	#4
nycsaintfan 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 165	Re: New Orleans Saints Rumors: Team Targeting Mike Jenkins Originally Posted by FinSaint Harper is arguably above average in pass coverage when it comes to flats, which is what his type of a SS is expected to be - he is not a FS or a CB. At no point did I say he was a free safety or corner. I agree, he does play the flats well. Moving laterally from the line of scrimmage to the flats and out, I think Harper is very good in pass coverage. But once he moves out of that zone he becomes a liability.
nycsaintfan 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 165

04-06-2013, 05:21 PM	#5
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,964	Re: New Orleans Saints Rumors: Team Targeting Mike Jenkins Originally Posted by nycsaintfan At no point did I say he was a free safety or corner. I agree, he does play the flats well. Moving laterally from the line of scrimmage to the flats and out, I think Harper is very good in pass coverage. But once he moves out of that zone he becomes a liability. Yeah, I didn't mean to say that you were implying that he was a FS or a CB, just that his pass coverage skills should be evaluated as those of an in-the-box SS, not of a FS or a CB. While that does make him a liability when it comes to dropping back into coverage, I find it hard to be really harsh on him because of that since you wouldn't expect a DT to drop back to cover a TE. I know that may not be the best comparison, but I think it still gets the point across that certain positions can't be expected to cover for other positions' lapses or mistakes in defensive playcalling. An in-the-box SS is somewhat limited in his role when it comes to pass defense, but if the defensive scheme calls for a player of that type, then I do think they earn their keep quite nicely - as Harper has in the past. Rugby Saint II likes this.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

04-06-2013, 09:27 PM	#6
nycsaintfan 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 165	Re: New Orleans Saints Rumors: Team Targeting Mike Jenkins Originally Posted by FinSaint Yeah, I didn't mean to say that you were implying that he was a FS or a CB, just that his pass coverage skills should be evaluated as those of an in-the-box SS, not of a FS or a CB. While that does make him a liability when it comes to dropping back into coverage, I find it hard to be really harsh on him because of that since you wouldn't expect a DT to drop back to cover a TE. I know that may not be the best comparison, but I think it still gets the point across that certain positions can't be expected to cover for other positions' lapses or mistakes in defensive playcalling. An in-the-box SS is somewhat limited in his role when it comes to pass defense, but if the defensive scheme calls for a player of that type, then I do think they earn their keep quite nicely - as Harper has in the past. Fin, either way I think we are on the same page with this. Yes, I do think the Saints need to upgrade the safeties in the secondary. Honestly, we could be much worse off. Harper has his deficiencies but he is experienced and we have won a lot of games with him as our starting strong safety. So with all of that said, I don't want to see the Saints just release him WITHOUT a strong back up plan. He is not great in coverage. But with the new defensive system at least I know we are playing to his strengths. Aggressive play and blitzing the quarterback. Again, I might be one of the few here who thinks he will be a June 1st cut... but if I am right, then I hope we have a very good back up plan.
nycsaintfan 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 165

04-07-2013, 01:59 AM	#7
\|Mitch\| 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alexandria, La Posts: 11,303	Re: New Orleans Saints Rumors: Team Targeting Mike Jenkins I can't see Harper being a June 1st casualty, he is too valuable in running situations. What I do see is Quaddus/Bush getting some playing time in passing situations...

04-06-2013, 10:59 AM	#8
ClintSaints 500th Post Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Glendale, CA Posts: 603	Re: New Orleans Saints Rumors: Team Targeting Mike Jenkins Originally Posted by nycsaintfan I guess the most frustrating part to this is he is a very good safety inside the box, and for arguments sake is one of the teams best tacklers and pass rushers. Pass coverage is just something he does not excel in. Catching balls that are thrown straight at him is definitely a problem, I agree. lol.

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