Re: Has the light come on for Ruiz?
 

Its the scouts and front office's fault most of all if they make bad evaluations. Their job is to make good evaluations. All 32 teams have people with the job of making good evaluations. So the higher the pick the more valuable because you can take the player you evaluate most highly before others have a chance to take him. Draft position matters for the GM not so much the player, the GM has a responsibility to find stars at a good rate with high picks. To do that they need to consider talent, coachability, and motivation. If they find a motivated player whose talent is not enough to ever live up to the round they are drafted, its a miss. If they find a highly talented player you will cash the 1st round bonus check, by Nyquil, and never produce, its a miss. If they are finding 6th round talent in the 1st round, they can fly economy out of town and find a job selling cars. Ruiz might have been a fine 6th round pick. Mickey Loomis took him in the 1st round. That's on management. Its no surprise since he is about equally as good as Andrus Peat who we will pay $20 million a year forever to continually extend and restructure his contract while functioning as a Little Debbie powered human turnstyle.

Re: Has the light come on for Ruiz?
 

Bako -

https://media2.giphy.com/media/LpM87...giphy.gif&ct=g

Re: Has the light come on for Ruiz?
 

As usual, I find myself agreeing with some of your post bako, but disagreeing with some as well.

Since Peate was brought up, let’s take a look at a few things. First of all your 20 million a year forever line is shows you aren’t looking at the situation rationally or with logic. Now I like to razz Andrus as much as the next guy and bring up his sammiches a lot. He may be overpaid, but not like you are saying. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you are exaggerating for emphasis cause 20 mill a year ain’t even close according to spotrac.

So looking at where Peat was drafted (13th) there were three other tackles taken in the first round; Ereck Flowers at 9 (on his 5th team 0 pro bowls) Cedric Ogbuehi at 21 (on his sixth team 0 pro bowls) and DJ Humphries at 24 (still with Cardinals 1 pro bowl). Now I’m not fans of these other teams and haven’t watched these other guys play much, but an argument can be made Peat is the best of the 4. Without going through all the names (i’m not gonna waste time with that) Peat may be the best tackle taken in the entire draft. Now, we can go on about if a tackle was what the Saints needed or there were better picks at other positions, but you are going off on the pick when it might have netted the best player at the position in the entire draft. That seems a bit harsh.

According to NFLs website:

https://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker/picks/13/1/2015

Peat was the highest graded of the 4 players. So it’s not just the Saints that saw something in him.

I guess all I’m saying is I don’t think the Loomis shots you like to take are accurate. A lot of users are taking shots at players, coaches, and management right now…and that’s fine I suppose. Evaluation is warranted.

But just like Guido comes off on how the team will start a 17 game win streak with his posts of optimism, your posts come off on the opposite end of the spectrum with no more substance than his because of your negativity. But hey, at least you aren’t argumentative about it like he is.

Just my thoughts. Peace!

Re: Has the light come on for Ruiz?
 

I kept watching Ruiz during the game and while I'm not ready to anoint him an all-pro yet he looks a whole lot better thatn the sack of boiled **** that was his play last season. Some really good snaps in one on one passrush situations and som good stuff in the run too.

Re: Has the light come on for Ruiz?
 

All interesting questions but I am not seeing one consideration.

A player performing to their best is only half the equation isn't it? Draft round is not determined solely on ability, and evaluation is both isolated to player and again against the class. Draft round is determined by where a player falls within the class... This years 1st might have been last years 3rd.

To put it bluntly the best QB in next years draft could be mediocre at best but go in the 1st round because he is the best in the draft and a team is drafting PON. Even if we draft BPA for the first round the A stands for available not All American.

An entire draft class could be absolute horse crap but 32 still need to go in the first round and I have yet to see a single player decline being picked in the 1st round because he didn't want to get paid.. even though he knew he was going to get trucked on the field.

No one is innocent and comparing 1st round picks from different years is apples to oranges.:bng:

Re: Has the light come on for Ruiz?
 

Not sure what is worse some times, my typing or my reading glasses prescription. :p

Re: Has the light come on for Ruiz?
 

Thanks Boston. Per overthecap.com Peat's 2023 cap number is $18.371 million with a dead cap figure of about $17 million if cut. I exaggerate a bit with $20 million but there is an element of truth. Peat was an ok Tackle and guard early in his career, though neither consistent nor especially durable. I don't doubt he was better than some other players picked his year, maybe better than all tackles picked his year. What I doubt is that those other tackles have Peat's cap numbers next year. The biggest mistake was not drafting Peat, it was extending him, and then letting the cap get so out of hand we couldn't walk away from bad long term deals like Peats.

I just don't want us to fall into the trap with Ruiz that Loomis fell into with Peat. That trap is as follows. First spend a valuable first round pick on a player who occasionally appears serviceable but never lives up to the pick. Then use a brief period where they sort of flash enough skill to almost justify the pick to justify an above market contract. Then get spendy with Gale's credit card and find there is neither cap room to pay that over the market contract nor to cut the contract and take a cap hit. And thus get stuck married to that player nearly for life because each year, on a year by year basis, its cheaper to restructure and often extend that contract than to take the cap hit and admit the mistake. I am scared that Loomis will find a way to make it happen that Ruiz is a Saint for life and we are still seeing this same production at a higher price tag in 2030. Think thats impossible? We are paying Peat as I think overthecap indicates the #5 paid guard in the league. If we can make Peat the #5 paid guard, we can do the same for Ruiz.

Some say its about to be over. We can finally cut peat this offseason. But with an $18 million salary and $17 million dead money, cutting him only saves $1 million. Peat is not worth $17 million, but he is a decent backup worth perhaps $4 million, so I don't trust that Loomis will cut him, I fear Loomis will extend and restructure and find a way to save $5 million on the 2023 cap by lining up Peat for $25 million cap numbers in future years, that will help deter rival GMs from applying for his job. I fear the same with Taysom Hill getting more restructures and extensions and paying him to immitate glass in 2028. I guess we could also cut Peat post-June-1 next offseason. But then we have almost $ 12 million of dead cap in 2024 for a player who has been washed for years already.

One could argue Peat is part of the problem with Ruiz. How can we expect Ruiz to want to be better when he sees the Pillsbury Dough boy lining up as the other guard, making the #5 guard salary in the league, and getting offered extensions and restructures to guarantee more money to lock him up as a Saint longer. Loomis is sending the message to Ruiz that Peat is the standard for what will be rewarded. Ruiz is doing reasonably well at meeting that standard.

Re: Has the light come on for Ruiz?
 

They both “factor” in for us all! 😃

Edit: Can’t believe I made a calculus joke !

Re: Has the light come on for Ruiz?
 

Thank You bako. You bring up good questions and valid points. I know I don’t have the answers. I will say this though…
I’ve lived in a lot of areas in the gold old USA that followed a lot of different teams in a lot of different sports. It’s a cliché to say they all want to win. I don’t believe that; some want to win more than others. Some area fans care more. Some take it for granted more. I spent 25+ years in the Bay area. I’ve seen the Niners and the raiders win Super Bowls while living amongst their fans. I saw the Giants and the A’s win championships and the Golden State Warriors bring home a trophy.

Likewise, here in Boston, I watched the Celtics, Pats, Red Sox, and Bruins all either play for or win a title. During all of this in both areas I got to observe with and interact with their fans.

Just like I saw all those teams win, I saw them lose! I saw them struggle. All those teams (pats aside) struggled through years that got them too 5 draft pics repeatedly. Saw fan interest rise and fall.

I guess my rambling point is I’m thankful for what we’ve had and to be competitive and to appreciate how tough it is to compete at this level. Lots of very wealthy owners try their best to win it in the NFL and they can’t get it done. Lots of times they don’t even come close. A good friend of mine up here is a Jets fan. Can you imagine the crap he takes? At least fans outside of Louisiana give the saints and their fans respect. Let’s hope it continues.

Re: Has the light come on for Ruiz?
 

I like this take. Certainly not a player's fault for being over-drafted.

Still. A bust is a bust, blame is harder to determine for certain.

Re: Has the light come on for Ruiz?
 

I seem to recall Peat's father was a close friend of Payton's?

Ruiz felt like a reach maybe after the Saints just missed out on Justin Jefferson and Kenneth Murray in back to back picks. Just my opinion

Re: Has the light come on for Ruiz?
 

Interesting.

Re: Has the light come on for Ruiz?
 

Again. You bring up good questions. The answers are hard to find.

Re: Has the light come on for Ruiz?
 

Over drafted, no. The last player that was over drafted I recall was Baptiste. I.e he was a reach in that drafted before he was predicted to be drafted. Turner and Davenport may have been too. I don’t think Peat fits that description though. He went about where he was supposed to.

Re: Has the light come on for Ruiz?
 

found it: https://blackandgoldreview.com/sean-...and-troubling/

His father and I are the same age. His father went to Champagne Central High School which is in the middle of the state of Illinois. The first time I met his dad we were seniors being recruited by Northern Illinois. His dad played guard in the league for a long time. I just remember seeing his dad on that college visit. I can remember it was 1981 like it was yesterday. His dad had one of those letterman jackets on with five varsity letters all over it and I only had played my senior year. I hadn’t gotten my letter yet so I had stuff my mom gave me to make up really my letterman’s coat. His dad went on to have a great career at Northern, he was drafted, played a long time. This guy has all the things you look for. He is smart. He is big. He is very athletic. He is built much differently than his father, his stature.

Re: Has the light come on for Ruiz?
 

Not quite "close friends". More like acquaintances according to Mike Triplett in a 2015 article. He wrote they did follow each other's careers after that early meeting. Triplett said Peat actually knew former tight ends coach Dan Roushar better since they were teammates back at Northern Illinois.

Long before Saints drafted Andrus Peat, Sean Payton was impressed by his dad