Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

+1. Hell, Trautman can’t even jog !

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

I believe there has also been a shift in philosophy when it comes to injuries versus being hurt. I believe most teams, and especially the Saints, have become ultra conservative when it comes to the player's health. It seems that players are being made to sit out games where they would have just "played through the pain" in the past.

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

This is my opinion as well. I'm not sure if it's the team or the players driving the change.

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

Well, there’s the days of Ronnie Lott where he had a part of his finger cut off so he could get back in the game. Certainly those days are gone. But weather guys are not playing when they could….that’s a tough idea to believe when your team is under .500 and fighting to be relevant.

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

I'd put all my money on the team. Or people like Dr. Matt Rhea who has been hired by the team to oversee the player's health. As rezburna pointed out recently these players want to play. Quite often to the detriment of their own well being as many admit.

Perhaps the ominous threat of lawsuits such as the concussion affair play into it, as well.

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

First off, concussions are a different ball of wax. After the Tua situation, both sides are being cautious.

And QB position is a separate category from other players. Mainly because they are the only player at their position on the field. So Watson may want to play but the staff is saying no because his injury is too hampering to his performance.

But I don’t believe that non QB, Non concussion injured players are being held back by the team more than the players themselves. In other words there isn’t someone on the Saints telling Thomas he can’t play. It’s Thomas saying he’s not ready.

Maybe I’m wrong.

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

You don't know what happened. Why do you all present your OPINIONS as absolute regarding Thomas and the team? You stated no facts. He got injured played through injury reaggravated the injury and now he's back. You talk his doctors? Did you talk to the Saints doctor? Did you talk to MT? Or did you read random "Saints Insider" outlets and went with media stories because they fit your bias surrounding MT?

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

Partially agree here. There have been less major injur9es during training camp. You want more contact more injuries? Or Less contact less injuries? If your team was severely impacted by performance due to not making 10 extra tackles during training camp it want meant to be

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

This previous off-season is going to be the one that hurts the Saints the most. We had waaay more holes to fill other than WR which we put the house up for. DT RB2 Safety Nickel CB2 T G. We left so much bone on the table with this draft. Eagles received Nakobe Dean Jordan Davis CGJ and what looks to be a top 10 first. And they are 6-0. Patriots have picked up 2 QBs within the last TWO seasons. Saints overvalued this roster last year. The draft process shows. The only x-factor here is potentially getting some picks from Sean playing with another team. Marcus Williams and CGJ should be our starting Safety. I like Marcus Maye personally I think the CB play outside of Marshon has been horrendous with some upside for Allontae. Other than that very poor play. RB2 Dameon Pierce Rachaad White Breece Hall. There were options. A lot of the holes that could have been filled this year was looked over with the expectation of ZERO drop off from the Defense and a Offense getting its top WR and one of the best if not the best rookie WR this year. Eagles robbed us with NO gun.

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

Good points. Added to the “Less contact less injury” idea is “Less contact (fieldtime) less cohesiveness”. It’s not surprising Dalton can make throws to Callaway and Smith….They got more practice and playing time together than Thomas/Landry/Winston did.

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

Giants are 5-1 with a hell of a defense. Steelers just beat the Bucs. Jets defense and special teams are playing fine. Saying all that to say. If you know your job your responsibilities in and out you have done your job add some execution in there of course. Tyrann missed tackles are not due to not enough contact. When there are guys with same training camp time making plays. Justin Simmons, Derwin James, marcus Williams etc.... know your job do your job. Can't so your job if you don't know it. Knowing half the battle now the other half is recognizing and applicating. I understand for rookies but for Veterans...naw I'm not giving them that. Sean left a void that DA isn't qualified to fill unfortunately the Saints are going to be impacted the most

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

No argument. Just like Vets Kamara and Ingram shouldn’t fumble.

I guess the only diff is maybe not having practice together as a unit (offense or D) makes players sloppy. Your point is well taken though.

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

Totally disagree. It's common knowledge that the medical staff has the ultimate say and total veto power these days as to any player returning to play regardless of injury. Why would any player refuse to play when fully cleared by the medical staff? Especially a player like Thomas that is so driven to be the best? It makes no sense. Not to mention that many players have some sort of incentives built in to their contracts. Not playing costs them money.

And don't forget that the Saints front office shared with the Saints beat writers that Thomas' turf toe injury was on about a four week recovery window. That will be after this coming week at best.

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

It's getting closer to a Penning return it seems.

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

All of what happens, or is written about what happens, or speculations about the quality of the field at any given stadium is separate from the basic question. Is it the players Decision or the teams? The truth is some of each of course.

If player X is questionable for team A, then the Decision on if X plays (assuming X is outside of the earlier mentioned QB/concussion subgroup) depends on many variables: player’s health, team record, depth at position, etc. I’d hope we agree on this, right? For example the need for a guy at say 65% to return for a 5-1 team that is getting by at WR is different than a 2-4 team that is playing undrafted guys. Agreed?

So, in the Saints case, knowing they have receivers out, and knowing Thomas is paid to be a top WR, and knowing the team needs to win and the playoff window is closing, I do not believe the Saints staff is telling Thomas to sit while Thomas is saying, “No, I can play!”.

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

As you point out the circumstances come into play.

If the medical staff says the player doesn't play then it matters not what the coaches or the player wish. Everyone should agree that's a given.

If the medical staff gives a full go then it falls on the player and the coaches. In this case I can't imagine any player saying they don't want to play. I can see a coach wanting additional practice .. possibly.

If the medical staff gives a conditional go, as in the player can play but there is the chance of reaggravating the injury I can see the coaches considering the circumstances. Let's say it was a critical game such as clinching a playoff berth or an actual playoff game I can see the coaches asking the player to play. I seriously doubt any player would say no. If the game was not critical I can see the coaches making the decision to hold out the player regardless of what the player wishes.

Then there's the case of the medical staff giving a conditional go, as in the player can play without chance of further aggravation but there will be pain to play through and/or painkilling required. This is the only case I can possibly see the player making the final call. Once again, however, it is very hard for me to believe any player that is motivated enough to want to be great their whole life would refuse to play under these circumstances.

I have had the opportunity to know several athletes in several different sports over the years and I can honestly say that I do not believe any of them would refuse to compete if it was at all possible. It is so contrary to their basic mindset.

In addition, what the player is getting paid should not be part of any of the decisions, nor do I believe it comes into play beyond the minds of fans.

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

Just out of curiosity I put this question out to a few of the Saints beat writers, Boston.

"I have heard it suggested that Michael Thomas is able to play but chooses not to play. What are the possibilities of this being the case?"

Here's the first response:


Ross Jackson
@RossJacksonNOLA
Replying to
@AsylumGuido
That's not the case.
2:14 PM · Oct 19, 2022
·Twitter Web App

Second response:

@AsylumGuido
·
20m
Replying to
@RosvoglouReport

I have heard it suggested that Michael Thomas is able to play but chooses not to play. What are the possibilities of this being the case? I myself can't see this being the case.

Chris Rosvoglou
@RosvoglouReport
Replying to
@AsylumGuido
I highly doubt that
2:27 PM · Oct 19, 2022
·Twitter Web App

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

At current pace , we're slotted for the #5 pick in the next draft which now belongs to another team. If we don't trade the rights to SP for multiple number 1s, what do we have to look forward to in a rich 2023 QB draft?

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

The 37th pick ?

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

I think Michael Thomas wants to play, Dennis Allen wants to lead, and Mickey Loomis wants to have the cap space to improve the team. But I prefer replacing them all with individuals who are more likely to achieve those wants.

The people on hoarders want to have a clean house. But they also want to hoard. We need to stop hoarding injured players and poor leaders and clean house.

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

Great. That means you are BOTH wrong.

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

You mean all THREE of us.

LOL! Just for ****z and giggles, give me the logical reasoning behind Thomas refusing to play. Of course, ignore the fact that his prognosis given by the team at the time of injury was four weeks for a grade 2 turf toe.

This oughta be good.

:D :popcorn:

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

I said “ I do not believe the Saints staff is telling Thomas to sit while Thomas is saying, “No, I can play!”.”

What reason would there be for that?

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

I do not believe the Saints staff is telling him to sit, either. I believe what was told to the beat writers the week of the injury stating he had a turf toe injury that would require approximately four weeks of recovery with an outside chance of less. I also believe that as soon as the medical staff gives him clearance he'll immediately return to practice to prepare to return to play.

Do you honestly believe he would refuse to play if given the clearance? If so, what would be his logical reasoning?

That's what I what to hear from you. I cannot for the life of me come up with any reason why any athlete would refuse to play if able. It surely isn't the money because not playing has to be negatively affecting any performance incentives he most likely has in place.

Don't forget the possible recovery from the previous injury was complicated by Thomas' insistence upon playing through that injury for Drew. If he had sat things all might have been dramatically different.

No doubt the medical staff would be far more conservative this time around. Thomas is arguably the most dangerous weapon on our roster and gives us the best chance of winning moving forward.

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

Zzzzz you are the opposite side of bako with your rambling argumentative nonsense! Did you wake up saying you are going to come after Boston today?

My statement is quite clear. I’ll repeat..

I do not believe the Saints staff is telling Thomas to sit while Thomas is saying, “No, I can play!”.

If you don’t have the mental capacity to understand the statement that’s on you. Feel free to kiss my a$$ now.

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

This part I can agree with 100%. I believe Thomas is following the orders of the medical staff to a "T" this time around doing exactly what they prescribe. As he should for the betterment of the team.

:bng:

And I'll decline the invitation to kiss your a$$. Kind of an odd request.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/26gsp...d=200.gif&ct=g

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

Yeah, i never used the words refuse or refused to play either jerkoff. I don’t give a crap what you agree with.

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

Reading this post again, I’m gonna respond…since it’s what you wanted to hear from me..

You are a dishonest Guido (putting it mildly).

Going back to post 43 of this thread in a discussion about what is driving the recent trends regarding the multi facets of injuries and how they are being handled throughout the league I said:

“In other words there isn’t someone on the Saints telling Thomas he can’t play. It’s Thomas saying he’s not ready.

Maybe I’m wrong.”

You respond with a post that starts..

“Totally disagree.”


Ok, fair enough. I admitted I could be wrong (mainly because the topic was about an opinion that can’t be proven). So you go on to stake an “argument” that emotionally goes into the specifics of his injury. It was NOT the point I was making, nor was it the topic of discussion. You take two clear statements I make :

“ I do not believe the Saints staff is telling Thomas to sit while Thomas is saying, “No, I can play!”.”

AND

“In other words there isn’t someone on the Saints telling Thomas he can’t play. It’s Thomas saying he’s not ready.”

And you twist those statements to accuse me of saying Thomas “refuses” to play (along with a little emoji that is meant to be cute I guess). Then say you contacted some hacks to back up your point.

That is clear manipulation and your usual MO.

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

Okie dokie.

https://media.tenor.com/oU8nCyZnpvkA...snoop-dogg.gif

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

Got it. :D

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

Then stop doing it 😁

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

Doing what? :confused:

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

Being dishonest and manipulative.

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

I don't recall ever being dishonest. Could I have ever been wrong about something? Yes. We all make mistakes. But I am never intentionally deceitful.

Re: If we could just have our Starting core...
 

Loss of memory…another sign of your dementia