Everything Must Go?

Boston Saint · 10-21-2022, 02:27 PM

Here is a link and screengrab from spotrac.com regarding the team’s status for 2023 contracts:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-orleans-saints/cap/

I’m no cap expert. But it seems there are 8 players with Dead Cap hits in the 50-20 million range. Another 8 are in the 10-19 range. It goes from there. This money (to my understanding) is going to count against the cap next year weather or not these guys are on the team. So, it seems kinda hard to see these guys getting traded. Lattimore is over 50 million!

BakoSaint · 10-21-2022, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Here is a link and screengrab from spotrac.com regarding the team’s status for 2023 contracts:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-orleans-saints/cap/

I’m no cap expert. But it seems there are 8 players with Dead Cap hits in the 50-20 million range. Another 8 are in the 10-19 range. It goes from there. This money (to my understanding) is going to count against the cap next year weather or not these guys are on the team. So, it seems kinda hard to see these guys getting traded. Lattimore is over 50 million!

Only Lattimore and Ram would be very hard to absorb the hit. According to this we owe Michael Thomas $28 million next year if we keep him vs only $25 million dead cap if we cut or trade him so its actually a savings, and Shaheed is cheap and seems more motivated. Plus there are options like post June 1 cuts or asking players we could cut to take pay cuts.

What I really don't want to do is sign Peat, Thomas, Hill, Landry, Mathieu, etc to restructured extensions that make them Saints through 2030 in order to get under the 2023 cap and make room to bring in JJ Watt, OBJ, Matt Ryan / Tom Brady, Julio Jones, Bobby Wagner, and Ezekiel Elliott as free agents while trading all our draft picks this and next year to move up for a raw DE Or LT who will get hurt in preason and go on the IR giving us no rookies. That would be the Loomis playbook, try to be the oldest team in the league and get $ 100 million over the 2024 cap by restructuring to win it all in 2023 with the senior tour.

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-orleans-saints

Another thing to consider is that for 2023 a Kamara suspension is very likely and he is a key part of our offense. Also unless there is a Payton trade, which is no guarantee at all, we won't have a first round pick to contribute. And Jordan and Davis will be a year older. So does maxxing the cap and avoiding the tough cap hits that will help us in the future really make sense to try to 'win now' in 2023? I would rather watch a young underdog team in 2023 attempt to shock the world than try to keep all the veterans and watch a bunch of brittle old men try get healthy at the same time knowing cap hell is still ahead.

AsylumGuido · 10-21-2022, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Only Lattimore and Ram would be very hard to absorb the hit. According to this we owe Michael Thomas $28 million next year if we keep him vs only $25 million dead cap if we cut or trade him so its actually a savings, and Shaheed is cheap and seems more motivated. Plus there are options like post June 1 cuts or asking players we could cut to take pay cuts.

What I really don't want to do is sign Peat, Thomas, Hill, Landry, Mathieu, etc to restructured extensions that make them Saints through 2030 in order to get under the 2023 cap and make room to bring in JJ Watt, OBJ, Matt Ryan / Tom Brady, Julio Jones, Bobby Wagner, and Ezekiel Elliott as free agents while trading all our draft picks this and next year to move up for a raw DE Or LT who will get hurt in preason and go on the IR giving us no rookies. That would be the Loomis playbook, try to be the oldest team in the league and get $ 100 million over the 2024 cap by restructuring to win it all in 2023 with the senior tour.

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-orleans-saints

Explain how Shaheed is more motivated than Thomas?

BakoSaint · 10-21-2022, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Explain how Shaheed is more motivated than Thomas?

Since joining the team Shaheed has never made a cryptic tweet, refused a phone call from the coach, delayed a needed surgery, or fought a teammate in practice. He doesn't have much money guaranteed so he is motivated to prove something to get paid.

AsylumGuido · 10-21-2022, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Since joining the team Shaheed has never made a cryptic tweet, refused a phone call from the coach, delayed a needed surgery, or fought a teammate in practice. He doesn't have much money guaranteed so he is motivated to prove something to get paid.

None of that says that Shaheed is more motivated than Thomas. Just more of your biased bullcrap. Thought so.

BakoSaint · 10-21-2022, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

None of that says that Shaheed is more motivated than Thomas. Just more of your biased bullcrap. Thought so.

Just so you understand, this is a football discussion forum not a criminal court. I am not saying I can prove beyond any reasonable doubt that Michael Thomas is so unmotivated he should go jail for the rest of his life. I am giving an opinion that he may not be especially motivated. There is a phrase 'young and hungry' that predates this message board. I want the team to get younger. Everything I listed, while not proof for a criminal trial, backs the message board opinion that Shaheed is more motivated. If you think employees who fight at work, post cryptic messages about work on social media, and don't return the bosses phone calls are motivated, go start a business and hire employees who do that. They will be ready available at negotiable salaries even in this tight job marker. I won't be able to prove those employees are not motivated in a court of law, but I won't be an early investor.

AsylumGuido · 10-21-2022, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Just so you understand, this is a football discussion forum not a criminal court. I am not saying I can prove beyond any reasonable doubt that Michael Thomas is so unmotivated he should go jail for the rest of his life. I am giving an opinion that he may not be especially motivated. There is a phrase 'young and hungry' that predates this message board. I want the team to get younger. Everything I listed, while not proof for a criminal trial, backs the message board opinion that Shaheed is more motivated. If you think employees who fight at work, post cryptic messages about work on social media, and don't return the bosses phone calls are motivated, go start a business and hire employees who do that. They will be ready available at negotiable salaries even in this tight job marker. I won't be able to prove those employees are not motivated in a court of law, but I won't be an early investor.

Your opinion. Simply that. My opinion is that not only does Thomas have ten times the talent of Shaheed, but he has the motivation to be great (see his NFL record breaking numbers). Just because a couple of injuries have got in the way I do not see that motivation being any less. If anything, I would expect his motivation being greater than ever.

shawnkytonk · 10-22-2022, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Since joining the team Shaheed has never made a cryptic tweet, refused a phone call from the coach, delayed a needed surgery, or fought a teammate in practice. He doesn't have much money guaranteed so he is motivated to prove something to get paid.

So that's your opinion, because the fact you actually don't know any of this shows your flawed analysis.

shawnkytonk · 10-22-2022, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Explain how Shaheed is more motivated than Thomas?

AG I've come to realize there's no rationalization with these people who can't stand MT. He obviously pissed in their Cheerios. What's funny, is none of them seem to understand anything about his injuries. I've been dating a physician since June. I've got her watching Saints games now even though she's an Eagles fan. I've discussed the MT situation with her and shown her posts on this board. Her response to most of the stuff she's read here are "IDIOTS!"

AsylumGuido · 10-22-2022, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by shawnkytonk

AG I've come to realize there's no rationalization with these people who can't stand MT. He obviously pissed in their Cheerios. What's funny, is none of them seem to understand anything about his injuries. I've been dating a physician since June. I've got her watching Saints games now even though she's an Eagles fan. I've discussed the MT situation with her and shown her posts on this board. Her response to most of the stuff she's read here are "IDIOTS!"

I've uttered that same word more than once when reading the same stuff, shawnky.

10-21-2022, 02:27 PM	#1
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Everything Must Go? Here is a link and screengrab from spotrac.com regarding the team’s status for 2023 contracts: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-orleans-saints/cap/ I’m no cap expert. But it seems there are 8 players with Dead Cap hits in the 50-20 million range. Another 8 are in the 10-19 range. It goes from there. This money (to my understanding) is going to count against the cap next year weather or not these guys are on the team. So, it seems kinda hard to see these guys getting traded. Lattimore is over 50 million! Attached Thumbnails

10-21-2022, 02:36 PM	#2
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,389	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by Boston Saint Here is a link and screengrab from spotrac.com regarding the team’s status for 2023 contracts: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-orleans-saints/cap/ I’m no cap expert. But it seems there are 8 players with Dead Cap hits in the 50-20 million range. Another 8 are in the 10-19 range. It goes from there. This money (to my understanding) is going to count against the cap next year weather or not these guys are on the team. So, it seems kinda hard to see these guys getting traded. Lattimore is over 50 million! Only Lattimore and Ram would be very hard to absorb the hit. According to this we owe Michael Thomas $28 million next year if we keep him vs only $25 million dead cap if we cut or trade him so its actually a savings, and Shaheed is cheap and seems more motivated. Plus there are options like post June 1 cuts or asking players we could cut to take pay cuts. What I really don't want to do is sign Peat, Thomas, Hill, Landry, Mathieu, etc to restructured extensions that make them Saints through 2030 in order to get under the 2023 cap and make room to bring in JJ Watt, OBJ, Matt Ryan / Tom Brady, Julio Jones, Bobby Wagner, and Ezekiel Elliott as free agents while trading all our draft picks this and next year to move up for a raw DE Or LT who will get hurt in preason and go on the IR giving us no rookies. That would be the Loomis playbook, try to be the oldest team in the league and get $ 100 million over the 2024 cap by restructuring to win it all in 2023 with the senior tour. https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-orleans-saints Another thing to consider is that for 2023 a Kamara suspension is very likely and he is a key part of our offense. Also unless there is a Payton trade, which is no guarantee at all, we won't have a first round pick to contribute. And Jordan and Davis will be a year older. So does maxxing the cap and avoiding the tough cap hits that will help us in the future really make sense to try to 'win now' in 2023? I would rather watch a young underdog team in 2023 attempt to shock the world than try to keep all the veterans and watch a bunch of brittle old men try get healthy at the same time knowing cap hell is still ahead.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,389	Last edited by BakoSaint; 10-21-2022 at 03:06 PM..

10-21-2022, 02:43 PM	#3
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by BakoSaint Only Lattimore and Ram would be very hard to absorb the hit. According to this we owe Michael Thomas $28 million next year if we keep him vs only $25 million dead cap if we cut or trade him so its actually a savings, and Shaheed is cheap and seems more motivated. Plus there are options like post June 1 cuts or asking players we could cut to take pay cuts. What I really don't want to do is sign Peat, Thomas, Hill, Landry, Mathieu, etc to restructured extensions that make them Saints through 2030 in order to get under the 2023 cap and make room to bring in JJ Watt, OBJ, Matt Ryan / Tom Brady, Julio Jones, Bobby Wagner, and Ezekiel Elliott as free agents while trading all our draft picks this and next year to move up for a raw DE Or LT who will get hurt in preason and go on the IR giving us no rookies. That would be the Loomis playbook, try to be the oldest team in the league and get $ 100 million over the 2024 cap by restructuring to win it all in 2023 with the senior tour. https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-orleans-saints Explain how Shaheed is more motivated than Thomas?

10-21-2022, 02:51 PM	#4
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,389	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Explain how Shaheed is more motivated than Thomas? Since joining the team Shaheed has never made a cryptic tweet, refused a phone call from the coach, delayed a needed surgery, or fought a teammate in practice. He doesn't have much money guaranteed so he is motivated to prove something to get paid.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,389

10-21-2022, 03:06 PM	#5
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by BakoSaint Since joining the team Shaheed has never made a cryptic tweet, refused a phone call from the coach, delayed a needed surgery, or fought a teammate in practice. He doesn't have much money guaranteed so he is motivated to prove something to get paid. None of that says that Shaheed is more motivated than Thomas. Just more of your biased bullcrap. Thought so.

10-21-2022, 03:10 PM	#6
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,389	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido None of that says that Shaheed is more motivated than Thomas. Just more of your biased bullcrap. Thought so. Just so you understand, this is a football discussion forum not a criminal court. I am not saying I can prove beyond any reasonable doubt that Michael Thomas is so unmotivated he should go jail for the rest of his life. I am giving an opinion that he may not be especially motivated. There is a phrase 'young and hungry' that predates this message board. I want the team to get younger. Everything I listed, while not proof for a criminal trial, backs the message board opinion that Shaheed is more motivated. If you think employees who fight at work, post cryptic messages about work on social media, and don't return the bosses phone calls are motivated, go start a business and hire employees who do that. They will be ready available at negotiable salaries even in this tight job marker. I won't be able to prove those employees are not motivated in a court of law, but I won't be an early investor.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,389

10-21-2022, 03:17 PM	#7
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by BakoSaint Just so you understand, this is a football discussion forum not a criminal court. I am not saying I can prove beyond any reasonable doubt that Michael Thomas is so unmotivated he should go jail for the rest of his life. I am giving an opinion that he may not be especially motivated. There is a phrase 'young and hungry' that predates this message board. I want the team to get younger. Everything I listed, while not proof for a criminal trial, backs the message board opinion that Shaheed is more motivated. If you think employees who fight at work, post cryptic messages about work on social media, and don't return the bosses phone calls are motivated, go start a business and hire employees who do that. They will be ready available at negotiable salaries even in this tight job marker. I won't be able to prove those employees are not motivated in a court of law, but I won't be an early investor. Your opinion. Simply that. My opinion is that not only does Thomas have ten times the talent of Shaheed, but he has the motivation to be great (see his NFL record breaking numbers). Just because a couple of injuries have got in the way I do not see that motivation being any less. If anything, I would expect his motivation being greater than ever.

10-22-2022, 11:33 AM	#8
shawnkytonk 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Denver>Memphis>Mississippi Posts: 741	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by BakoSaint Since joining the team Shaheed has never made a cryptic tweet, refused a phone call from the coach, delayed a needed surgery, or fought a teammate in practice. He doesn't have much money guaranteed so he is motivated to prove something to get paid. So that's your opinion, because the fact you actually don't know any of this shows your flawed analysis. AsylumGuido likes this.

10-22-2022, 11:37 AM	#9
shawnkytonk 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Denver>Memphis>Mississippi Posts: 741	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Explain how Shaheed is more motivated than Thomas? AG I've come to realize there's no rationalization with these people who can't stand MT. He obviously pissed in their Cheerios. What's funny, is none of them seem to understand anything about his injuries. I've been dating a physician since June. I've got her watching Saints games now even though she's an Eagles fan. I've discussed the MT situation with her and shown her posts on this board. Her response to most of the stuff she's read here are "IDIOTS!" SaintFanInATLHELL and AsylumGuido like this.

10-22-2022, 11:58 AM	#10
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Everything Must Go? Originally Posted by shawnkytonk AG I've come to realize there's no rationalization with these people who can't stand MT. He obviously pissed in their Cheerios. What's funny, is none of them seem to understand anything about his injuries. I've been dating a physician since June. I've got her watching Saints games now even though she's an Eagles fan. I've discussed the MT situation with her and shown her posts on this board. Her response to most of the stuff she's read here are "IDIOTS!" I've uttered that same word more than once when reading the same stuff, shawnky.