Saints Management
 

I'm interested in the overall opinion of of the Saints Brass. Please share opinions and comparisons. For what it's worth, I think it's run very well especially considering where this team was when I started really paying attention in the early 80's. :bng:

Re: Saints Management
 

Jury is still out IMHO. We were taken advantage of pre-SP, then spoiled, then our expectations raised and dashed, then disappointed, then some resumption of optimism , then post-SP, we're settling in with reality for now with a bit higher expectations. The tell tale, in order words, is upcoming in the nest two-three years. We're still along for he ride as we transition.

:popcorn:
:bng:

Re: Saints Management
 

My stance on Loomis has been the same for quite some time now. I find him very replaceable. Ireland is the talent evaluator and the HC has a big hand in the personnel decisions. I'd prefer having a our HC focused on coaching and giving insight on personnel when needed. Getting a "franchise" quarterback down here IMO will keep the structure intact for the next couple of years. But if we remain stagnant in our performance, I expect to see a complete overhaul in our front office.

Re: Saints Management
 

I think the front office has been solid over the years.

While I don't always agree with all of the moves, I totally respect & give them credit for some of their unconventional team-building strategies over the years.

Loomis has his share of faults, & "tendencies" however he was able to assemble coaches & players to hoist us a Lombardi.

We've been extremely competitive over the last few decades. Are we the Chiefs, Eagles, or Niners front office yet? No, but we've managed to be heading in the right direction.

I admire the continuity & stability of the Saints front office.

Re: Saints Management
 

The way that Loomis and Hartley have handled the contracts over the past two decades has been arguably game changing.

Most importantly, the Bensons have made the players feel like family. How many times have you heard players refer to Mrs. Benson affectionately as Mrs. B? I know that's ownership but it does play a part in management.

Re: Saints Management
 

I’d say slightly above average. We’ve been a stable and relatively consistent organization since about the year 2000 and we’re constantly making moves that should put us in a position win.

Re: Saints Management
 

I’m well into my fifties, so Going back to the beginning means Rating many different head offices. When the Saints first joined the league, they were an expansion team, and the pool of players they had access to was different than the way later expansion teams like the Panthers and Jaguars had to pull from.

I’d say the Jim Finks era was a turning point. Winning percentages and a “Moneyball” type formula could give definite ranking, but It’s tough for me to not put them into Best in the league. I say this based upon these points:

I firmly believe without ref cheating we have a second SB. If we had won that, we are in an “upper tier” group of teams and earn more respect. A two time Brees lead Payton Coached SB team eclipses what Bill Parcells did. Loomis and company brought that.

The Loomis lead brass had to deal with 2 Tragedies that no other NFL franchise has had to deal with. Hurricanes and the BS that was bounty gate. Natural disasters and a Witch-hunt. They did more than put good teams out there…they rebuilt and defended the community.

They have routinely put competitive teams on the field and remained in playoff contention until the end of the season. Our last top 5 pick was, what, about 30 years ago? We were know for many exciting playoff games that unfortunately ended in heartbreaking losses. In many ways we have been like the 80s Bills for the last 20 years.

Pats, Steelers, KC, maybe Baltimore. Not many teams I’d put above us.

Re: Saints Management
 

I wouldn't mind sporting the Pats' history of the last 20 years... For those residing in Bahston, must feel like double dipping.

Re: Saints Management
 

Yeah, that Brady/Bill combination was something. Unfortunately for me , I was always a Saints guy and never really “pulled” for them. Except against the Falcons and Rams in the SB of course.

Re: Saints Management
 

Two people picked Sad Times? :bugeyes:

Re: Saints Management
 

My money's on Bako and mapcow.

:D

Re: Saints Management
 

You beat me to it.

Re: Saints Management
 

We've been contenders almost every year. Poor health and bad refereeing has held us back at the absolutely worst times, and yet, we still had one of the best records in the NFL for years regardless of the set backs and bad officiating. We have above average production from the FO, but we have an excellent accounting department who keeps this mad system afloat. Loomis makes his share of mistakes but he seems to learn from them and I'm fine with that. Dennis Allen still makes me queasy though.

Re: Saints Management
 

Yes I was a vote for sad times. We are 7-10 and doubled down on the same approach while breaking the bank for the next Drew Bledsoe, and ok mod career qb we shut out.

Interesting article below. Chiefs and Bills go with my philosophy. Rams prefer Mickeys but at least rebuild when it falls apart. Not many credible GMs believe you can have success going all in every year and refusing to rebuild. Mickey is one of the few.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...g-a-tear-down/

Re: Saints Management
 

Let's keep things in perspective. The Bills have never won a Superbowl. Also, they're in a very enviable position in that they have one of the best QB's in the league and he's young. The Chiefs too. We knew that the Saints would struggle until they found the next great QB. I don't believe that Derek Carr is great but I think that he's close to one of the top ten QB's in the NFL. Why blow things up if both your O-line and D-lines are good, your defense is really good and the offense has talented players at the specialty positions?

I am on the fence with coaching on this team but you can't convince me that Mrs. Benson, Loomis, Hartley, and Ireland make up one of the worst run teams in the NFL.

Re: Saints Management
 

Tearing down and rebuilding routinely leads to the front office and coaching staff being fired after two or three seasons of three or four wins. No thank you.

Re: Saints Management
 

You could say it all depends upon how one defines “Sad times”. If you want to say it’s keeping your team from sucking then let’s take a look.

Since 2000 the Saints have had only 1 season with fewer than 7 wins…a 3 win season when Katrina hit. Let’s do some comparisons. During that same time….

KC has two 2 win seasons and two 4 win seasons

Baltimore..two 5 and one 6

Green Bay…one 4 and two 6

Buffalo…one 3,4, and 5 along with multiple 6s.

SF has two 2s. Two 4s and a 5.

Pittsburg has one 6 win. Otherwise they have been very good with their next lowest total wins a season going to 2000 is four 8 win seasons.

Patriots are clearly the best and have outperformed all teams by this matrix, but even Bill B only managed 5 wins his first year coaching the Pats in 2000. So Allen did better his first year coaching the Saints.

So pointing to teams like Browns, Jags, Jets, Detroit and Houston seem like they have had hard times to me. Yes, some of these teams might seem like they are poised to succeed in the near future. But time will tell and they have had to go through many worse seasons than what the Saints put on the field last year to get to the point they are now.

Re: Saints Management
 

Too logical, Boston. Hatred is is blind to logic.

Re: Saints Management
 

I’m willing to have discussions about it. My father and I often compare Saint’s seasons against other franchises. I’m not oblivious to mistakes they’ve made. If bako feels we are in “sad” times compared to other teams because we are less likely to win this year’s SB than some other teams then I’d agree with him. Philly, KC and a few other teams are in more favorable positions than us without a doubt in my mind.

Re: Saints Management
 

We are favorites to win our division and make the playoffs. That is by no definition "sad times" that Bako imagines we are living in. Our front office is among the most respected in the entire league. Just because Bako is living in some bizzaro world of antiquated NFL management logic in no way means anyone else sees the unprecedented success, in Saints historical terms, as being in "sad times".

Re: Saints Management
 

It’s an interesting discussion

Re: Saints Management
 

Most of this forum is over 40 from what I can tell. With that frame of reference I can’t see how these last 20+ years haven’t been a breath of fresh air even with the subsequent heartbreaks. We’ve consistently reached heights that were merely a dream from the 60’s on through most of the 80’s and 90’s.

Re: Saints Management
 

Well said rez.

Re: Saints Management
 

I didn't become a Saints fan until well after I moved from France in 1978. So maybe 30 years or so for me, long enough to have suffered some and appreciative enough to have tasted the success we have had. It's only normal our expectations have adjusted, as they should have of course.

Re: Saints Management
 

We are favorites of some pundits but not others to win what is widely considered the worst division in the league by a game or a half game while spending the most future 2024 cap of any team in the league to 'win now.' If you want to go to betting odds to justify it I guess we are the favorite at +135 but then you also have to recognize our odds at the NFC Championship at +1800. It is worth spending mortgaging future salary caps more than any other team in the league to have a 1 in 20 chance at appearing in the Super Bowl and a 1 in 40 chance to win it all (+3500 and accounting for casino profits)???

The concept of rebuilding is not antiquated. The Eagles rebuilt and got back to the Super Bowl and got a young promising QB. 2 of the last 3 Super Bowl Champs are rebuilding now, Rams and Bucs. We are trying a wacky new philosophy of doubling down no matter how bad it gets. Rebuilding is the current accepted philosophy.

But its no use listening to Guido and friends. Your hate for tradition and accepted management principles is too great for you to listen to reason. It doesn't matter if we go 0-17 and get shut out in every game, you will blame injuries and bad bounces and act like unfavorable officiating was random bad luck and a shocking surprise. Then you will declare Mickey Loomis the second coming of Jesus Christ when he gets us under the 2024 salary cap by assigning 2030 salary cap dollars to Andrus Peat and Michael Thomas even if they don't play a down in 2024 because the extensions will reduce their cap hit a little in 2024.

The Saints sad years before the NFL had a salary cap are irrelevant. No team could be that bad with parity in the league today unless they tried really hard to be that bad. The best way to try to be that bad would be to mortgage the salary cap and borrow big from the future as much as possible by committing long term dollars prorated out many years to aging injury prone veterans and trading future draft picks in the present when they value is low so that if you do lose you don't get the picks to bounce back and you don't have the salary cap space to keep young stars. Thats what we are trying to do. Thats Mickey's goal. To be as bas as we were in the 70's even with the parity of the salary cap. It took him a long time to figure out how to ruin a team despite the salary cap. How to use the cap to go into so much debt you assure a third of your money goes to players who are washed and would not make a roster on other teams. But he has done it. He has beat the cap. And he intends to make us worse than in the 1970's. He got a .283 coach. He locked down a mediocre QB for his 30's. He is doing it.

Re: Saints Management
 

Re: Saints Management
 

The Saints management is kicking ass and taking names. They are on a mission to save DA's job....and if Carmichael can call good plays with a healthy offense then they could both still be here next year.

Re: Saints Management