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Danno 12-28-2023 02:04 PM
What Went Wrong
 
Now that we’re not gonna make the playoffs, its time to discuss what went wrong, what was unexpected. How we fix it is another topic for another day.


Offensive coordinator failed miserably
Carr was a huge let-down
O-Line Pass blocking sucked
O-line run blocking regressed
D-line pass rush was weaker than expected (Cam Jordan)
D-line run defense regressed as the season went on
Our Kicker was less than we hoped for
Our punter was a joke
TE’s underperformed
RB’s were weak (see O-line)
LB’s lost a step
Our defense just looks slow
Our offense looks basic and flat

Feel free to add your observations.

AsylumGuido 12-28-2023 02:15 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
I'll add mine if we don't make the playoffs.

:D

:bng:

TheOak 12-28-2023 02:32 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
A long string of poor decisions that started with making a successful DC the HC which weakened us on both fronts. Someone said this would happen.. I was laughed at and told tall tails about Dennis Allen being the note of continuity and familiarity.

What’s familiar is the record. :bng:

mapcow 12-28-2023 02:41 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 989547)
I'll add mine if we don't make the playoffs.

:D

:bng:
No need.... :beatnik: cuz the Saints will NOT make the playoffs.

Rugby Saint II 12-28-2023 03:24 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
What went wrong starts with coaching. DA was a lazy hire for continuity's sake. Pete Carmichael is dead last in all NFL metrics for coaches and the next worse coach has to be Douggie Marrone. He shut down a good O-line loaded with high draft picks just like he did Alabama. The difference is Saban fired him after only one year.

Honestly, The whole offensive coaching staff can go. Personally, Ronald Curry has shown me very little to hang my hat on. Let the New OC pick his staff.

The D line coach, Todd Grantham can go too. We can't manufacture pressure against the offensive line or in the back field. QB's run all over us and we can't stop the run.

MatthewT 12-28-2023 03:25 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
The Trevor Penning failure is way bigger than what most people realize. Why was Cam Jordon given that big contract extention?

lee909 12-28-2023 04:05 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
They kept giving vets new deals and Payton and Brees one more shot.

That's why the caps a mess with no easy way out. That's why Payton ran away.
Then you lose a actual head coach option and defensive co-ordinator the year before you could promote them. And Loomis doubles down on Allen amd Carr and a OC that didn't want tbe job

mapcow 12-28-2023 04:30 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
Saints are stuck at their current status for a couple more years, because of front office decisions; signing contracts with has been players and questionable coaches, along with piss poor planning guarantees sequential losing seasons. Thus getting closer to the 2030 deadline; and IMPOSSIBLE to rebuild a contender by then. Oh When the Saints.... go marching out.... Oh when the Saints... Idiots :beatnik:

Sinner 12-28-2023 04:39 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mapcow (Post 989580)
Saints are stuck at their current status for a couple more years, because of front office decisions; signing contracts with has been players and questionable coaches, along with piss poor planning guarantees sequential losing seasons. Thus getting closer to the 2030 deadline; and IMPOSSIBLE to rebuild a contender by then. Oh When the Saints.... go marching out.... Oh when the Saints... Idiots :beatnik:
Sing it loud… for the Quidos in the back.

lee909 12-28-2023 05:10 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
Kind of funny that for years they've moved up in the draft and the one year they didn't they let themselves get jumped for Mahomes. Or gave up 2 1st and a 5th for Marcus Davenport and left Lamar Jackson on the board. Cause there's no need to draft a successor to a near 40 year old QB

BakoSaint 12-28-2023 05:18 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
I think the plan all along was for DA and Loomis to give themselves record extensions this year to match some of the highest paid coaches and GMs in the league and include guaranteed money long term. So, our offseason play was not just to go all in to win now, it was especially focused on that one goal.

Signing Carr was not just seen as a win now move but also a move to reinforce the idea of paying big money for leaders other people doubt. If it worked, DA and Loomis would present themselves as the next Carrs. Then we gave needless offseason and early season extensions to Jordan, Granderson, and Ruiz, all of whom were still under contract and not holding out. This was to reinforce the idea of keeping the band together and winning with continuity.

The first four games of the season were against the titans with a lame duck tannehill, the panthers with a rookie young player in his second game with no oline, a banged up packers with love replacing rodgers, and the bucs newly without brady and expected to be bottom dwellers. I think the idea was that we would go 4-0 or 3-1 in those easy games and after giving Granderson and Ruiz extensions it would be natural to give DA a deal topping Paytons and Loomis something similar for delivering us to the promised land. Instead of the game ball, Gayle would have given them big checks. The roster was managed with this plan in mind too. For example we greatly overcompensated for Kamara’s possible suspension signing a top FA RB and using one of our top draft picks at RB even though it would only effect the first few games. We didnt move on from older and more injury prone players unlikely to last all year, because we only needed them to last 4 games. We didnt worry about adding young depth or keeping a player like Ellis, because we were not playing the long game, and he would not have been on the field much until someone got hurt or slowed down.

The plan went perfect when we started 2-0 and were up on the Packers. Had we beat the Packers and gone to 3-0 with Carr healthy I think DA and Loomis’ new record contracts would have been announced on that Tuesday. But then the wheels fell off the oline, Carr went down with an injury that looked serious, and we lost the next two. But DA and Loomis were so close to their desired $100 million plus contracts that would allow them to really relax all week.

AsylumGuido 12-28-2023 05:34 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakoSaint (Post 989589)
I think the plan all along was for DA and Loomis to give themselves record extensions this year to match some of the highest paid coaches and GMs in the league and include guaranteed money long term. So, our offseason play was not just to go all in to win now, it was especially focused on that one goal.

Signing Carr was not just seen as a win now move but also a move to reinforce the idea of paying big money for leaders other people doubt. If it worked, DA and Loomis would present themselves as the next Carrs. Then we gave needless offseason and early season extensions to Jordan, Granderson, and Ruiz, all of whom were still under contract and not holding out. This was to reinforce the idea of keeping the band together and winning with continuity.

The first four games of the season were against the titans with a lame duck tannehill, the panthers with a rookie young player in his second game with no oline, a banged up packers with love replacing rodgers, and the bucs newly without brady and expected to be bottom dwellers. I think the idea was that we would go 4-0 or 3-1 in those easy games and after giving Granderson and Ruiz extensions it would be natural to give DA a deal topping Paytons and Loomis something similar for delivering us to the promised land. Instead of the game ball, Gayle would have given them big checks. The roster was managed with this plan in mind too. For example we greatly overcompensated for Kamara’s possible suspension signing a top FA RB and using one of our top draft picks at RB even though it would only effect the first few games. We didnt move on from older and more injury prone players unlikely to last all year, because we only needed them to last 4 games. We didnt worry about adding young depth or keeping a player like Ellis, because we were not playing the long game, and he would not have been on the field much until someone got hurt or slowed down.

The plan went perfect when we started 2-0 and were up on the Packers. Had we beat the Packers and gone to 3-0 with Carr healthy I think DA and Loomis’ new record contracts would have been announced on that Tuesday. But then the wheels fell off the oline, Carr went down with an injury that looked serious, and we lost the next two. But DA and Loomis were so close to their desired $100 million plus contracts that would allow them to really relax all week.
:roflmao:

Sinner 12-28-2023 05:40 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakoSaint (Post 989589)
I think the plan all along was for DA and Loomis to give themselves record extensions this year to match some of the highest paid coaches and GMs in the league and include guaranteed money long term. So, our offseason play was not just to go all in to win now, it was especially focused on that one goal.

Signing Carr was not just seen as a win now move but also a move to reinforce the idea of paying big money for leaders other people doubt. If it worked, DA and Loomis would present themselves as the next Carrs. Then we gave needless offseason and early season extensions to Jordan, Granderson, and Ruiz, all of whom were still under contract and not holding out. This was to reinforce the idea of keeping the band together and winning with continuity.

The first four games of the season were against the titans with a lame duck tannehill, the panthers with a rookie young player in his second game with no oline, a banged up packers with love replacing rodgers, and the bucs newly without brady and expected to be bottom dwellers. I think the idea was that we would go 4-0 or 3-1 in those easy games and after giving Granderson and Ruiz extensions it would be natural to give DA a deal topping Paytons and Loomis something similar for delivering us to the promised land. Instead of the game ball, Gayle would have given them big checks. The roster was managed with this plan in mind too. For example we greatly overcompensated for Kamara’s possible suspension signing a top FA RB and using one of our top draft picks at RB even though it would only effect the first few games. We didnt move on from older and more injury prone players unlikely to last all year, because we only needed them to last 4 games. We didnt worry about adding young depth or keeping a player like Ellis, because we were not playing the long game, and he would not have been on the field much until someone got hurt or slowed down.

The plan went perfect when we started 2-0 and were up on the Packers. Had we beat the Packers and gone to 3-0 with Carr healthy I think DA and Loomis’ new record contracts would have been announced on that Tuesday. But then the wheels fell off the oline, Carr went down with an injury that looked serious, and we lost the next two. But DA and Loomis were so close to their desired $100 million plus contracts that would allow them to really relax all week.
Saw it play out with my own two eyes. Just like that. “But wait! There’s more!”

mapcow 12-28-2023 05:43 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mapcow (Post 989580)
Saints are stuck at their current status for a couple more years, because of front office decisions; signing contracts with has been players and questionable coaches, along with piss poor planning guarantees sequential losing seasons. Thus getting closer to the 2030 deadline; and IMPOSSIBLE to rebuild a contender by then. Oh When the Saints.... go marching out.... Oh when the Saints... Idiots :beatnik:
.....or, maybe this was the plan all along. :beatnik: Kind of like those investment companies that "tombstone" vital businesses, all for the purpose of shutting them down, and collecting a check in the end. Look it up... worked for a company out of New Orleans that practiced this technique. ELANCAP
https://elancap.com/cases.html

Sinner 12-28-2023 05:48 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mapcow (Post 989595)
.....or, maybe this was the plan all along. :beatnik:
Keep shopping for new merch or the tearorists win.

mapcow 12-28-2023 05:50 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakoSaint (Post 989589)
I think the plan all along was for DA and Loomis to give themselves record extensions this year to match some of the highest paid coaches and GMs in the league and include guaranteed money long term. So, our offseason play was not just to go all in to win now, it was especially focused on that one goal.

Signing Carr was not just seen as a win now move but also a move to reinforce the idea of paying big money for leaders other people doubt. If it worked, DA and Loomis would present themselves as the next Carrs. Then we gave needless offseason and early season extensions to Jordan, Granderson, and Ruiz, all of whom were still under contract and not holding out. This was to reinforce the idea of keeping the band together and winning with continuity.

The first four games of the season were against the titans with a lame duck tannehill, the panthers with a rookie young player in his second game with no oline, a banged up packers with love replacing rodgers, and the bucs newly without brady and expected to be bottom dwellers. I think the idea was that we would go 4-0 or 3-1 in those easy games and after giving Granderson and Ruiz extensions it would be natural to give DA a deal topping Paytons and Loomis something similar for delivering us to the promised land. Instead of the game ball, Gayle would have given them big checks. The roster was managed with this plan in mind too. For example we greatly overcompensated for Kamara’s possible suspension signing a top FA RB and using one of our top draft picks at RB even though it would only effect the first few games. We didnt move on from older and more injury prone players unlikely to last all year, because we only needed them to last 4 games. We didnt worry about adding young depth or keeping a player like Ellis, because we were not playing the long game, and he would not have been on the field much until someone got hurt or slowed down.

The plan went perfect when we started 2-0 and were up on the Packers. Had we beat the Packers and gone to 3-0 with Carr healthy I think DA and Loomis’ new record contracts would have been announced on that Tuesday. But then the wheels fell off the oline, Carr went down with an injury that looked serious, and we lost the next two. But DA and Loomis were so close to their desired $100 million plus contracts that would allow them to really relax all week.
truth hurts :beatnik:

neugey 12-28-2023 06:04 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
The gross roster mismanagement is the most concerning thing to me. Some of this falling on Allen but most of it on Loomis:

- "Resting" Jimmy Graham instead of practicing him or involving him into the greater game plan.
- Keeping Penning on the roster when it's clear he's a bust and we need to swallow our pride and cut him.
- Not putting Lattimore or Michael Thomas on IR despite the writing on the wall indicating they were done for their year.
- Whatever the f*** that fling with JPP was.
- Not giving a hobbled Cam Jordan a week off to get right.
- Playing an injured Shaheed and having him hurt himself worse.
- Putting Taysom in the doghouse for seemingly no good reason, other than some possible air-quotes "injury" that isn't showing up on the report. But we all know why. This dysfunctional front office sees him as the reason Carr is getting booed and Taysom getting cheered is getting under their skin.
- Rushing Carr back in to start when he's less than 50%.
- Not working out other kickers or punters unless it's 100% reactive to injury situation.
- Putting Carr up on a pedestal from the get-go and making him a Captain.
- Not letting Baun rush the passer, up until a little bit lately.

This is the crap that kills us before we even get on the field.

Sinner 12-28-2023 06:20 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by neugey (Post 989600)
The gross roster mismanagement is the most concerning thing to me. Some of this falling on Allen but most of it on Loomis:

- "Resting" Jimmy Graham instead of practicing him or involving him into the greater game plan.
- Keeping Penning on the roster when it's clear he's a bust and we need to swallow our pride and cut him.
- Not putting Lattimore or Michael Thomas on IR despite the writing on the wall indicating they were done for their year.
- Whatever the f*** that fling with JPP was.
- Not giving a hobbled Cam Jordan a week off to get right.
- Playing an injured Shaheed and having him hurt himself worse.
- Putting Taysom in the doghouse for seemingly no good reason, other than some possible air-quotes "injury" that isn't showing up on the report. But we all know why. This dysfunctional front office sees him as the reason Carr is getting booed and Taysom getting cheered is getting under their skin.
- Rushing Carr back in to start when he's less than 50%.
- Not working out other kickers or punters unless it's 100% reactive to injury situation.
- Putting Carr up on a pedestal from the get-go and making him a Captain.
- Not letting Baun rush the passer, up until a little bit lately.

This is the crap that kills us before we even get on the field.
Salient points, well articulated.

AsylumGuido 12-28-2023 06:22 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by neugey (Post 989600)
The gross roster mismanagement is the most concerning thing to me. Some of this falling on Allen but most of it on Loomis:

- "Resting" Jimmy Graham instead of practicing him or involving him into the greater game plan.
- Keeping Penning on the roster when it's clear he's a bust and we need to swallow our pride and cut him.
- Not putting Lattimore or Michael Thomas on IR despite the writing on the wall indicating they were done for their year.
- Whatever the f*** that fling with JPP was.
- Not giving a hobbled Cam Jordan a week off to get right.
- Playing an injured Shaheed and having him hurt himself worse.
- Putting Taysom in the doghouse for seemingly no good reason, other than some possible air-quotes "injury" that isn't showing up on the report. But we all know why. This dysfunctional front office sees him as the reason Carr is getting booed and Taysom getting cheered is getting under their skin.
- Rushing Carr back in to start when he's less than 50%.
- Not working out other kickers or punters unless it's 100% reactive to injury situation.
- Putting Carr up on a pedestal from the get-go and making him a Captain.
- Not letting Baun rush the passer, up until a little bit lately.

This is the crap that kills us before we even get on the field.
Briefly,

We carried four TE's on the roster. With Juwan (how do you sit him), Moreau (our best blocker at the position), and Taysom (another must active). Graham had been the odd man out. Got in with injuries to the others.

Penning is basically in the same position as Ruiz in his development.

The JPP "fling" was a cheap temp practice squad backup. He hasn't played a meaningful snap elsewhere since.

I could address others, but those were the most glaring and I have supper on the stove. ;)

I agree with some of the others, for sure.

Sinner 12-28-2023 06:26 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 989605)
Briefly,

We carried four TE's on the roster. With Juwan (how do you sit him), Moreau (our best blocker at the position), and Taysom (another must active). Graham had been the odd man out. Got in with injuries to the others.

Penning is basically in the same position as Ruiz in his development.

The JPP "fling" was a cheap temp practice squad backup. He hasn't played a meaningful snap elsewhere since.

I could address others, but those were the most glaring and I have supper on the stove. ;)

I agree with some of the others, for sure.

Translation: we still suck.

SmashMouth 12-29-2023 07:53 AM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 989546)
Now that we’re not gonna make the playoffs, its time to discuss what went wrong, what was unexpected. How we fix it is another topic for another day.


Offensive coordinator failed miserably
Carr was a huge let-down
O-Line Pass blocking sucked
O-line run blocking regressed
D-line pass rush was weaker than expected (Cam Jordan)
D-line run defense regressed as the season went on
Our Kicker was less than we hoped for
Our punter was a joke
TE’s underperformed
RB’s were weak (see O-line)
LB’s lost a step
Our defense just looks slow
Our offense looks basic and flat

Feel free to add your observations.
All of those observations can be attributed to poor decision making from management. Will a change be forthcoming?

iceshack149 12-29-2023 09:59 AM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashMouth (Post 989621)
All of those observations can be attributed to poor decision making from management. Will a change be forthcoming?
I hope so, brother. If the Saints keep Allen next season the majority of the Saints fanbase will be infuriated.

Sinner 12-29-2023 09:59 AM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashMouth (Post 989621)
All of those observations can be attributed to poor decision making from management. Will a change be forthcoming?
Maybe in 2030.

Rugby Saint II 12-29-2023 04:48 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iceshack149 (Post 989630)
I hope so, brother. If the Saints keep Allen next season the majority of the Saints fanbase will be infuriated.
I'm already there iceshack......as are most fans!

I hate to say it, but DA is probably running this **** show again next year. After that Saints fans can look forward to a rebuild! Woo Hoo! :party:

Sinner 12-29-2023 04:56 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II (Post 989651)
I'm already there iceshack......as are most fans!

I hate to say it, but DA is probably running this **** show again next year. After that Saints fans can look forward to a rebuild! Woo Hoo! :party:
At this point, any rebuild will only take place someplace besides New Orleans. Unfortunately.

SmashMouth 12-30-2023 08:08 AM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinner (Post 989655)
At this point, any rebuild will only take place someplace besides New Orleans. Unfortunately.
Please say it ain't seaux !

That would devastate the state, whole Gulf South really.

AsylumGuido 12-30-2023 09:33 AM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashMouth (Post 989669)
Please say it ain't seaux !

That would devastate the state, whole Gulf South really.
Saints aren't going anywhere, win or lose.

1.) The state isn't going to let the Saints go after putting up $100 million of the over $500 million in stadium upgrades due to be completed this coming season. The current deal with the Saints doesn't expire until after the 2030 season. That gives seven years to finalize the next extension.

2.) Gayle Benson has also stated that the Saints are to remain in New Orleans up to, and past, the time of her passing. She has draw up succession plans that require the sale of the team to a New Orleans area prospect that also commits to keeping the team in New Orleans moving forward. Note: All proceeds from this sale are mandated to be donated to New Orleans based charities.

3.) Moving any team at anytime in the future would require at least 75% of votes from the 32 teams in the league. Given that New Orleans is one of the prime locations for the Super Bowl, in the past and moving forward, this alone would make a move extremely unlikely to be approved. Super Bowls can only be scheduled at the home of existing NFL franchises.

There are many other reasons, but these are right up there at the top of the list.

saintsfan1976 12-30-2023 10:11 AM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
What went wrong is more of a continuation of what's been going wrong.

An ageing roster
Draft picks traded for players that haven't worked out
Lack of depth
Letting quality players walk in FA, conversely signing players who haven't
Low quality coaching staff
Limited room in 2024 to improve roster due to
- Structure of player contracts
- Limited draft picks
- Cap room for free agency

Sinner 12-30-2023 11:45 AM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashMouth (Post 989669)
Please say it ain't seaux !

That would devastate the state, whole Gulf South really.
What I’m saying is that by 2030, which is at or around the time we’ll be ready to rebuild, after all of that “saints aren’t going anywhere” nonsense (according to Quido), the state and whole Gulf South will be devastated. In the meantime, we’re going to sit through years of bad football, which is devastating enough. Don’t shoot the Messenger. It’s just (bad) business, not personal.

mapcow 12-30-2023 11:57 AM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 989676)
Saints aren't going anywhere, win or lose.

1.) The state isn't going to let the Saints go after putting up $100 million of the over $500 million in stadium upgrades due to be completed this coming season. The current deal with the Saints doesn't expire until after the 2030 season. That gives seven years to finalize the next extension.

2.) Gayle Benson has also stated that the Saints are to remain in New Orleans up to, and past, the time of her passing. She has draw up succession plans that require the sale of the team to a New Orleans area prospect that also commits to keeping the team in New Orleans moving forward. Note: All proceeds from this sale are mandated to be donated to New Orleans based charities.

3.) Moving any team at anytime in the future would require at least 75% of votes from the 32 teams in the league. Given that New Orleans is one of the prime locations for the Super Bowl, in the past and moving forward, this alone would make a move extremely unlikely to be approved. Super Bowls can only be scheduled at the home of existing NFL franchises.

There are many other reasons, but these are right up there at the top of the list.
yet... it will happen. :beatnik:

Better Hope the Honorable Governor Jeff Landry is a STAUNCH fan.... I'd prefer he be a Staunch financial conservative; for the State of Louisiana. He'll will be in his second term by then! :beatnik:

mapcow 12-30-2023 12:45 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mapcow (Post 989689)
yet... it will happen. :beatnik:

Better Hope the Honorable Governor Jeff Landry is a STAUNCH fan.... I'd prefer he be a Staunch financial conservative; for the State of Louisiana. He'll will be in his second term by then! :beatnik:
..... :beatnik:
me thinks maybe not.... :cool: looks like he puts the State of Louisiana first...before a LOSING football team. Corona era....but still, his priorities are present.

https://www.nola.com/news/coronaviru...eb6edbc5a.html

Rugby Saint II 12-30-2023 01:51 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
Relax ya'll! The Saints aren't going anywhere. We are tied to this city for the next decade at least. Woo Hoo! We are the New Orleans Saints! Now, and always! :party:

Sinner 12-30-2023 01:58 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II (Post 989705)
Relax ya'll! The Saints aren't going anywhere. We are tied to this city for the next decade at least. Woo Hoo! We are the New Orleans Saints! Now, and always! :party:
Translation:”The Saints aren’t going anywhere.”

lee909 12-30-2023 03:45 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
This thread and the answers would have been a lot shorter if it was

What went right

mapcow 12-30-2023 03:55 PM
Re: What Went Wrong
 
y'all too easy.... :beatnik:


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