Saints turning the Page on Winston
 

I would've liked to see him get a more decent look, but like many Vets on this team, I guess it's time to be moving on....

Looks like that stunt at the end of the ATL game was the nail in the coffin. Apparently, DA don't play that. Good luck in CLE and eat a W!

https://www.si.com/nfl/saints/news/j...s-joins-browns

Re: Saints turning the Page on Winston
 

Well good for him. I hope he does well there.

Re: Saints turning the Page on Winston
 

Good luck JW in Cleveland!

Does Kubiak bring his own guy (Jimmy G) or maybe they are confident on Haener being that #2?

Re: Saints turning the Page on Winston
 

Unless I’m mistaken, imagine that as my wife often says, Jimmy G has never played with Klint.

Re: Saints turning the Page on Winston
 

Good for him.

Re: Saints turning the Page on Winston
 

Are we getting a compensatory pick as a result ?

Re: Saints turning the Page on Winston
 

No. He doesn't qualify as an end of contract free agent. Same with Thomas if he signs elsewhere. Even if he was he'd only go into the compensatory formula which balances additions against subtractions and factors in the terms of the player's new contracts.

Re: Saints turning the Page on Winston
 

Invest in Under Armor. It's freakin' cold as hell up there. Stay warm and try not to get shot.

Re: Saints turning the Page on Winston
 

The other end of contract FAs that sign/signed elsewhere, like Hendrickson, we didn't get a compensatory pick? :confused:

Re: Saints turning the Page on Winston
 

He would have counted toward the overall formula. You don't get compensatory picks based upon the free agent lost itself. The picks are based upon a combination of end of contract free agents lost, free agents added, their individual new contracts, and playing time. That's why we never know the exact picks being awarded until well after the season has ended.

Look at it as a qualified accounting balance sheet with debits and credits but weighted by contracts given and playing time.

Re: Saints turning the Page on Winston
 

Guido is right but worded it somewhat awkwardly. He wouldnt count as an end of contract free agent because he wasn’t one. His contract didnt end with its final year. It didn’t automatically void. It may have been planned to end but it was not automatic and the nfl rules dont read tea leaves. His contract had some crazy trigger to pay him $100 million or whatever if we didnt cut him, so we did cut him, and designated him a post june 1 cut. Same deal with Michael Thomas. Cut players dont count toward the comp pick formulas. Their creative contracts were a double edged sword, allowing us to to designate them post june 1 cuts and spread out dead cap but preventing us from gaining comp picks, versus what it would have been if the contracts had been allowed to expire normally or void automatically. While not exact the formulas are very predictable and we will know before the start of the season what comp picks to expect next year with just the slight possibility that one pick could be a little higher or lower. Signing Derek Carr didnt count against us either, we signed the most overpriced free agent and still got comp picks because the Raiders cut him.

Re: Saints turning the Page on Winston
 

I tried to word it so the reader wouldn't have to wade through 8000 words of editorial crap to get to a simple explanation. :rolleyes:

Re: Saints turning the Page on Winston
 

Can we frame this? It's like a Solar Eclipse! These guys agreeing?

Re: Saints turning the Page on Winston
 

The benefit with Thomas, is he will be gone, and an even better receiver will take his slot. :beatnik:

Re: Saints turning the Page on Winston
 

A couple of more notes on compensatory picks. Along with average contract pay per year the percentage of snaps played (playing time I mentioned earlier) factors into the formula. There is also a limit of four per team. But more importantly, only 32 compensatory picks are given (except for very rare circumstances). Post-season awards or honors are also factored into the formula. The total of all eligible picks are finally ranked based upon all factors and ONLY the top 32 are awarded. Therefore, if a team had a qualifying balance which would normally result in picks they would not receive any if ranked 33 or lower. That's why you never know the full extent of compensatory picks until after the season when when all factors are known.

Re: Saints turning the Page on Winston
 

Re: Saints turning the Page on Winston
 

That's another explanation for the RG factor, bless his heart

Re: Saints turning the Page on Winston
 

Here is an article from May 2023 anticipating the Saints would receive two 4th round and one 6th round comp pick. We ended up with three 5th round comp picks. So by this May we will have a pretty good idea of our comp picks or lack thereof. 'You never know the full extent' just means you do know 80%.

https://saintswire.usatoday.com/2024...jr-nfl-rumors/

At this point Chase Young kind of blows our comp pick situation for 2025 because he counts. Carr did not count last year because the Raiders cut him. Roach and Gay cancel out. If Young earns and plays less than expected he will still be the biggest number on our sheet, even if he misses the whole year I think he earns $4.5 million. Losing Winston, Thomas, and Maye won't count because we technically cut them. We don't know how much Yiadom or Baun was paid yet but its not expected to be enough to count. If Peat gets a lot of money elsewhere, it would just offset Chase Young and we still have no net loss of qualifying players. And we still could sign players, whereas I am not sure who other than Peat who we could lose who would be qualifying. Unless Baun or Yiadom becomes some sort of awarded superstar with their new team, it seems like we are not getting comp picks in 2025.

Re: Saints turning the Page on Winston
 

Simple, isn't it? :rofl:
Didn't we all beotched about the Patriots always getting more of their fair share of comp picks year in and year out? That narrative seems to have cooled a bit. Are the rest of the teams more up to speed on how to benefit from that? What's different?

Re: Saints turning the Page on Winston
 

At this point we don't even know whether Young will count in any significant manner against the formula. Nor will we know until the season starts. It depends upon how many snaps he plays and how much of those weekly roster and preseason workout bonuses he's able to earn.

As for not getting comp picks, only 32 are awarded for player related transactions each year. Not getting one simply means that you gained more value than you lost through free agency. That isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Re: Saints turning the Page on Winston
 

Please take a look at the 2024 final comp picks on the site below. It breaks down free agents acquired into CFA's lost and gained, and non-CFA's lost and gained. Only CFA's count. CFA's gained and lost cancel out, and no team gets a comp pick unless they lose more CFA's than they gain. Every team that lost more CFA's than they gained got the difference in comp picks, so every CFA counts, unless you gain far more than you lose and then its just sort of gravy as you can't get negative picks.

So if Young counts as a CFA, he will definitely reduce our chances of getting a comp pick if we had any chances of getting a comp pick in the first place. If we would have got 1 or more comp picks without signing Young, and Young is deemed a CFA, we will get that many comp picks minus one due to signing Young, thats just how it works. If you don't believe me, look at every single teams final comp picks results in the link below. Be sure to click to the 2024 tab to see actual results not 2025 projections.

So then the only question is will Young count as a CFA. You say that cannot be determined until we see how many games and snaps he plays and what his final salary is. But here is the thing. Look at 2024 results for every team. Young's base salary is 2.7 million and his signing bonus was 1.86 million. So, even if he plays zero games, I believe he is guaranteed 4.5 million APY. Now refer to the 2024 comp pick results and find the highest paid non-CFA and the lowest paid CFA. You will find the highest paid non-CFA made 2.5m APY and the lowest paid CFA made $2.25m APY. So while snap count and awards can matter at the margin for players with salaries in the mid 2 millions range, and perhaps with the adjusted salary cap we will see CFA's making as low as 2.5m and non-CFA's as much as 2.75m, Young making 4.5m will definitely be a CFA unless he fails a physical and cancels his entire contract, and as a CFA he will definitely reduce the comp picks we would receive, if any, by one pick. How many snaps he plays and what awards he will will just affect what round of comp pick the 49ers get for losing him if he is one of their losses that does not get canceled out, but he will definitely be one of our gains that cancels out one of our losses and reduces by one any comp picks we may have received. Thats ok, we don't need comp picks every year, but it is reality, he will count.

https://overthecap.com/compensatory-picks

Re: Saints turning the Page on Winston
 

Who said he wouldn't count? I said we won't know how much he'd count toward the final balance until the season is over. Will it be enough to counteract the end value of total losses? Maybe. Maybe not. Just because a player qualifies as a CFA doesn't mean he'd have enough value to make the 32 pick cut. Right now he's getting full credit for the $13M APY. If he doesn't play out the whole season his value goes way down.

Re: Saints turning the Page on Winston
 

If you look at the 2024 chart in my link, it does not include players like Derek Carr who were cut by their previous team and therefore exempt from the formula, they are not on the chart at all, thats not what they mean by non-CFA. The difference between CFA's and non-CFA's it lists is their point value which is primarily dictated by their APY salary with a secondary effect of snaps and awards, a CFA is someone who made it with the 32 pick limit. CFA's 'made the cut' with their point value to be in the equation. When you speak of the top 32 and how we don't know if he will make it, thats the top 32 after all the 100's of moves that cancel each other out, so really its perhaps the top 132 or 232 players who count, many cancelling eachother out, and last season every player over $2.5m made it, so at $4.5 millon Young definitely will even if he never plays a snap.

Essentially I believe they start adding players from the highest value to the lowest until there are 32 picks awarded after all the offsets because many times adding a player will cancel a pick not award one because it offsets previously added player, and then when they have added enough players that there are 32 CFA's who don't offset, thats the point cutoff. Young will definitely be above that cutoff, and will probably cancel out whatever pick we would have gotten for Peat, which would have been something in the range of Round 4-7. Unless Peat only gets like under $2.5m or resigns with us and then we never would have gotten a pick anyway, but Young will count for the 49ers, probably round 4-6 depending on results.

Re: Saints turning the Page on Winston
 

Asking for friend... Is turning the page on Winston the same as closing the chapter on Ian Book?

:beer:

Re: Saints turning the Page on Winston
 

Still steppin into an old beat up unreliable Carr…