Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

Methinks NOT. But it'll be fun year nonetheless.

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

People don't watch ball. I'll say that over and over again.

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

We definitely could be the worst team if things go wrong. I expect we are most likely to regress a little because our young QBs, while they are cheaper with more upside, are also more likely to struggle at first than proven mediocre Carr, and many of our core players like Kamara, Jordan, Hill, Mathieu, Davis, Olave, McCoy, Shaheed, etc are either old and/or having a lot of injury issues. But although we only won 5 games and could be likely to regress, I still think many of the teams that lost 5 or more games last year are a little more likely to be a little worse. For example the Jets won only 5 games and replaced Rodgers with Fields which is a big step down. The Titans had the #1 pick but he is a bit raw and they are coming off a 3 win season. The Browns are also coming off a 3 win season and have a mess at QB. the Giants won 3 games and added Russell Wilson and a raw rookie QB but Russ keeps getting older and could get hurt and there is no guarantee they improve. I think we are the 4th worst team but definitely a contender for worst. And honestly teams like Atlanta (if Penix gets hurt), Carolina (if Young regresses or gets hurt), the Raiders (if Geno struggles and rookie RB is ineffective without oline), the Patriots (if Maye doesnt progress), etc could easily be worse too. Most likely our window is pick 1-10 in 2026 draft.

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

I definitely don’t think we’re gonna be the worst. Tbh, I have no idea how this team will play out. We’ve got a new coach and staff, a new defensive scheme and we have some players that are kind of wild cards. They may or may not surprise.

I don’t think the Saints are gonna be worse than they were last year. I see it as a 4 to 7 win season. But I’d be happy with good development and chemistry regardless of how many wins.

I just want to see improvement on both sides of the ball and something to look forward to in the future.

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

So many variables to consider as the season plays out but I can say we're better here:

- Entire Coaching Staff upgraded
- O Line can be top 10 in league
- Offensive scheme/identity
- Special Teams will be strong

Unanswered questions:

- Secondary
- D Line: Pass rush + Run D
- Did we do enough to improve pass-catchers

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

I think Justin Reid and Tyrann Mathieu can be one of the top 5 safety combos in the league. If they bring in Asante Samuel, Jr. and move to a zone heavy scheme then I can see Kool Aid taking a huge step forward and secondary being a strength for this team.

Defensive line is the huge question mark for me. It wouldn't hurt to improve WR and/or TE too.

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

I have noticed that every fan base of a losing or mediocre team has this false optimism every year that they will definitely be at least a little better, or at least can be no worse, because they participated in the draft and free agency, made some additions, filled some areas of need, and replaced some coaches with new coaches who came from winning programs. But the thing is, every team participates in the draft, every team participates in free agency, every team takes into account their areas of need in the draft and free agency, and despite these incredible improvements of all 32 teams, the 32 teams will combine to generate the exact same .500 winning percentage they did last year, and overall the winning teams from last year will contribute more of those wins. Every losing team in the bottom 10 will always replace some of their coaches with coaches from winning teams, but the results will never be predictable, just ask Charlie Weis, Josh McDaniels, Matt Nagy, Robert Saleh, etc.

The draft and free agency seem like pure addition, they should make every team better, but the truth is they are one side of a treadmill against age or injury. You may add an all pro, but at the same time you may have an all pro in his late 20's or 30's who suddenly gets the injury bug or loses a step and becomes irrelevent. For example just as the Saints seemed to hit on Chris Olave (before his concussions), Michael Thomas became irrelevant.

At the same time, free agency seems to address key needs for every team, especially bottom teams that dont have so many of their own stars to break the bank rewarding. It may seem to fill needs at key positions. But they often lose players in free agency too, who can be just as good, but they can write off because they have depth at those positions and dont have a spot for them to start. Every team seems to become more balanced and lose it weaknesses, but the truth is that this is just another treadmill. Injuries, development, which draft picks hit, and exactly when father time comes calling are all unpredictable, so just as a team eliminates a weakness every season, it finds a new one early in the next season.

Every team will face major injuries this season. Every losing team went into last season with high hopes and then faces major injuries. Every losing team has seemingly improved from their end season form where those injuries were baked in, but maybe not from their start of the season form that gave them optimism last year. Every team ends the season less healthy than they started it, so to compare apples to apples you need to compare to last years week 1 team. For example, Is Justin Reid a clear upgrade to the secondary when you lost a healthy Adebo versus week 1 last year?

The Saints may improve, but they may also regress. Additions in the draft, free agency, and the coaching staff are far from a guarantee to improve. It is a toss up whether Kellen Moore will be the next Josh McDaniels or the next Sean McVay. I hope Banks will be a great tackle but many 1st round tackles bust, and even if he is great, it is possible that the Erik McCoys 2024 injuries will be the start of a trend. Justin Reid is a good addition probably, but its easy to see how a decline in aging players like Davis and Mathieu could offset it.

To truly take a step forward, a team really needs to hit big, ideally not just on first round picks, but on later rounds or cheap free agents, who suddenly rise to all pro level. Or it needs existing players to reach unanticipated new heights. It needs to hit on a head coach when thats very much a crapshoot, as so many great OCs fail at head coach. And on top of all that, it needs the decline of aging players to either be more than offset by young talent or to be less drastic than expected, when fans often have unrealistic expectations that 40 is the new 30. What will make the Saints better is if our draft picks and free agents are better than expected. Merely making those picks and additions at their market value and accounting for median expectations will not improve the team, because all 32 teams made those improvements.

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

ok well that was not as good as I remember it.

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

I think we all agree the new coaching staff is an upgrade, so that's first reason to be optimistic.

Defensive line looks improved on paper, but we don't know how they will line up on the field. Speculation of 3-4 scheme is not confirmed, and if it happens, will it be 50% of the time? 60%?

RB room appears to be a strength.
OT looks to be solid

Question marks:
WR health through the season
QB (who plays and is he good)
Penning and Ruiz
Sanker, Stutsman, Riley

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

If we are the worst team then the light at the end of the tunnel is a high draft pick. Who Dat!:bng:

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

:bugeyes:

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

These two constraints have been lifted, one de facto and one de jure.

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

Saints Urged To Upgrade At Crucial Defensive Position
The New Orleans Saints have had quite the disastrous offseason to this point.
While they were one of the worst teams in football last season, they've actively taken steps backward including the loss of Paulson Adebo in free agency and Derek Carr to retirement. New Orleans hasn't replaced either of these players with a proven talent, though it did draft Tyler Shough as a potential franchise quarterback.
https://www.si.com/nfl/saints/saints...dorsement-pat3
https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th/id/OIP.n...=177&h=177&c=7

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

I'm going to go with Yes for a couple of reasons:
1: Unknown trasition continutity because of New HC (Along with playbook, concepts/ schemes)
2: Unknown QB situation. The single position with the biggest impact on any team's ability to compete is currently TBD.
3: New Defense (As with #1, integrating playbook, schemes, and position strength)
4: Divisional Competition. while the Saints have been working diligently to redirect the franchise, others directly competing with them (Bucs, Clowns, and Kitties) have been busy. It's going to take a huge amount of success to overcome the head start these teams have on us.

All of these things are moving parts that could change the outlook for our team in the coming months. The Moore Regime reset will be a work in progress. I don't see anyone in the league (Maybe the Giants, Raiders, Browns, and Titans) having the same challenges as the Saints.

The best thing about all of this is the bar is low. Time to get to work!

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

We could go 0-17 and the Falcons would still be the worst team in the NFL.

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

We are going to suck so bad that Gayle will be trying to sell the team by week 4. Until they put a card board cut out of her in the locker room and remove an article of clothing with every win.
Actually maybe she should start out naked and have players add an article of clothing after every win.

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

This here. Those first three are based totally on the unknown with the baseline being the worst possible scenario in each case. As we move toward the beginning of the season more light will be shined upon each of these and expectations will, no doubt, be readdressed. The same can be said as the season itself is underway and actual games are being played.

I for one see a totally new coaching staff as being a huge plus over the past season. As for the QB position, we didn't know who was going to be starting week to week last year so we may have better continuity this coming season. As for the defense, it is hard for me to expect anything less than what we had on the field last year and we clearly were not the worst team in the league.

We are well into a deep rebuild process already. We have a goodly number of young players that will be seeing lots of snaps with a sprinkling of vets that can help show them the ropes under hopefully better guidance from the new, but very experienced, coaching staff.

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

Who needs strip poker when you have football? :D

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

The Saints and Pelicans organizations both have talented rosters that can't stay healthy and in some instances haven't made the most of their personnel typing. A healthy offensive line and a deep RB room filled with Kamara, Miller, Akers, Edwards-Helaire, and Neal sounds like a smart direction to start. I wouldn't be mad at keeping all 5 of them on the active roster and rotating in fresh legs and different styles as needed. Ride the hot hand. Defensively my optimism is with the secondary. I believe Kool-Aid benefits the most from this new scheme, Reid and Badger are a crazy safety duo, and if we snag Asante that's an elite secondary in my book. Time will tell, but if healthy, I don't think this is close to the worse team in football.

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

Here is my hope. Only one back rushed for over 2000 yards last year. The coordinator for that back is now our head coach. Other than Penning moving to a new spot this year, the existing line have shown flashes at a All-Pro level play when healthy. The how healthy they will remain is the real unknown.

Most folks talk about the QBs and the receivers. I believe CKM is going to take advantage of the near all Pro caliber O-line, along with a talented stable of running backs to beat opposing defenses into submission. Then, and only then, will the QB do play action, which sucks in opposing linebacker and safeties leaving the second and third layers wide open to where a rookie or second year QB can pick and choose targets. Take a look at the Eagles or the Lions offenses last year to get a sense what that play action looks like.

I'm not sure about the defense. But I see the Saints' offense consistently and efficiently running the ball with a ton of big explosive plays behind that.

Will we win a ton of games? I don't know yet. But I sure can't wait to see it in the fall.

SFIAH

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

I don't know which games you are referring to, but at no point during the season did I see anything resembling All-Pro play from our offensive line. In the first two games, it was somewhat serviceable, but I think that was more about Kubiak's scheme than anything else. It ultimately got exposed, and injuries occurred. With the exception of McCoy, no one has performed at the level you would expect considering their draft status, especially as a unit.

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

One strong positive going into this season is that our depth on the the offensive and defensive lines is better. If we can be a little better in the trenches and be even so-so at stopping the run I don't think we will be the worst team.

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

If all kinds of praises were given for the Texans when their new regime came in, why not the Saints? I personally love the under the radar team we're developing . Staley is going to surprise people with our defense, including some of our fans . It's just plain refreshing to have new blood, new thinking in our organization.

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

While there is hope we could be better, there are also definitely reasonable fears that we could be similar or worse.

We have a new head coach, but it can be hard to predict which new head coaches succeed.

We have a bit more depth at running back, but only one running back on our roster has ever been consistently productive at the NFL level, and he is reaching an age where many consistently productive running backs cease being productive. It is easily possible our running back room could be worse.

3/5ths of our oline will be playing a position for the first time in their NFL careers. They could all be better suited for their new positions, or not.

The QB situation will be unpredictable and could be bad.

Our depth is still an issue. There are a lot of question marks if one player goes down, except on dline and our mediocre TEs. Our receivers are glass. Depth at LB, CB, WR, OL, QB, etc is very questionable.

But I am ok with all of this because young players are more fun to watch than old ones where you fear for injury every play and otherwise know what you will get, if it goes wrong we get a high pick at QB and more cap money in the future. I don't think we should go sign a bunch of ok vets now to assure that we get pick 8 not pick 1. I dont think there is any way that such vets get us a ring.

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

We so fortunate to always have our friend, Bako, available to launch the proverbial turd into the punch bowl.

:D

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

I didn’t make the Saints lose. I didn’t make Derek Carr suck. I didn’t make our defense and core old. I didnt make always trading up deplete depth. I didn’t make Dennis Allen a life long loser. I didn’t make Klint Kubiak not be the second coming of jesus christ.

I didn’t launch the proverbial turd into the punch bowl. I just pointed out it was there. You drank the punch anyway, and said it was great.

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

With one or two more signings like Asante Adams we might surprise a lot of people and win 7 or 8 games. It would take us out of the top ten picks next year but it would be a good strong core of young players to build around.

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

How would blowing our salary cap on older players in order to get about 7 wins and 3rd place while moving back in the draft give us a better core of young players to build around? I would rather give our young players more opportunities, have higher picks, and have more cap space to keep our young players if they merit a second contract. While our team may seem young relative to the hospice crew we trotted out last year, we still have a ways to go to get young and hungry relative to the rest of the league, and we wont get there by signing aging vets to win 7 games that real contenders are unloading because they are on the downside of their careers. That is what the Atlanta Falcons did last offseason, and you won’t get anywhere emulating that sorry excuse for a franchise that has never won anything.

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

Bako made several valid points. Hard to argue the logic around approach in this particular season.

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

(looks around) Yep, nothing has changed. See yall in a couple weeks.

Re: Are the Saints the De Facto Worst Team in the NFL?
 

LOL