Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

Smash can you summarize that? I don’t have the patience or time to watch an hour long episode of this. And I did the first several minutes but they never actually say what they are doing. They just keep leading into it without saying it. And it drives me crazy.

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

Don't blame ya. It just confirms what we all deep down knew all along, except worse.

And look at this, Florio has a dedicated page to nothing but collusion stories now. It prolly won't matter in the end.
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profoo.../nfl-collusion

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

Smash! You did the same thing as the video! You left it hanging! Confirms what?!!!!

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

I'd fill you in but I don't have a clue either. I didn't commit to it either. I prefer to read an article when you can skip the fluff intro.:dunce:

Edit: I have often thought that ether was collusion going on for quite sometime now. I'd even question the contract with DC.:doh:

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

Some legal analyst was on NFL radio a few days ago and covered this ruling in detail. Basically, he said the independent arbiter that ruled on the case, a retired appeals judge, found no legitimate evidence of "true" collusion. He said there were several cases of things being said and done AFTER the fact that weren't great optics, but collusion has to be actively orchestrated PRIOR to actions to be legally deemed collusion. Thanking a fellow owner for not agreeing to a veteran fully guaranteed contract for example, may not seem very savory, but it does not meet the legal definition of collusion.

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

Therein lies the controversy... We all know they collude... And they find ways to get away with it. And it's more than just one case . Although they didn't mention Gruden's case, it wouldn't be shocking there is collision in his case. His is on appeal. Wouldn't mind at all a Gruden win vs RG.

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

The confusion is in that something can be ethically wrong without being collusion.


col·lu·sion
/kəˈlo͞oZH(ə)n/
noun

Secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others.

Just because members of a group have like causes and those causes do not fall in line or affects others negatively does not make it collusion. Having a common goal does not result in collusion. Just because we do not agree with how some things are handled does not make it collusion.

All NFL owners have many things in common and are certainly going to have very similar philosophies and of course are going to agree on many things between one another and independently. That does not make any of it collusion. That's why no collusion was found in these cases.

I repeat, just because we don't like how some people do business doesn't make it illegal or collusion.

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

AI states, "Collusion itself is not a specific crime, but it can describe the act of participating in a conspiracy or other illegal agreement that could be a crime. For example, price-fixing or bid-rigging are illegal agreements, and collusion is often used to describe the act of engaging in these activities."

We all participate in the definition of collusion in our every day lives. If you and your friends decide in private to boycott a business for whatever reason it is collusion. It is not illegal. Some may call it petty. Or unethical. But not illegal.

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

AI Using AI to "PREACH" :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

"Bless Us Faddah", (By AsylumGuido)"For We all participate in the definition of collusion in our every day lives."

For Our Penance Give Us Three "Who Dat's" and a Good Act Of Collusi.....err Contrition!!" :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

Are agents colluding to secure guaranteed money for second round picks?

Are scouts discussing player evaluations colluding to prevent a player from going round 1?

Are players holding out for new contracts in the middle of their current contract colluding?

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

Not in any illegal sense. Working together to form a united front is not against the law. The agents are not doing anything in "secret" nor are they trying to "cheat or deceive others".

This has always been a common practice. Shady or unethical? Possibly so, but doesn't fit the definition of collusion at all.

That is simply a negotiating ploy. The teams commonly ask players to reduce their pay in the middle of contracts. Quid pro quo. Nothing here implies any sort of illegal collusion.

As I mentioned earlier, the legal analyst that appeared on NFL radio discussing this suit read the whole week's worth of testimony, as well as the ruling by the independent arbiter (ruling no illegal collusion was evident). He stated that there were indeed things that had bad optics (owners thanking other owners for not doing a veteran fully guaranteed contract, etcetera), but nothing came close to satisfying the definition of any sort of illegal collusion.

The NFL is first and foremost a business. A huge business. We all know that businesses can be cutthroat and otherwise unseemly. And, yes, sometimes even illegal. But not in this case.

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

AI is total bull****. AI doesn't say anything anyway. Its a webscraper that uses among many other things AI technology to pull keywords and phrases from the web. On a simple level, you ask which widget is best. “AI” pulls info from a widget manufacturer that spends a lot of time and money boosting their reviews. “AI” picks up on these reviews and starts down that rabbit hole. Algorithms and opinion pieces from users get mixed in there and you have your answer. Go ask detailed questions about razors and see where it takes you. Its an obscure subject that most of the general population have little knowledge about.
People would be floored to see what it says when it comes to anything to do with the second amendment or the ins and outs of using a firearm.

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

My question is why do we care? If the salary cap is still the same amount, guaranteed contracts would not even transfer money from the owners to the players. They would transfer money to aging stars with big contracts who got hurt and would otherwise be cut from players who teams might add on short term deals as a luxury if they have cap space. In many cases these could be some of the same players. If the Giants could not cut Daniel Jones they may not have money for Russell Wilson. But if the Broncos could not cut Wilson then the Giants could not have him anyway. If the Browns could have cut Watson then perhaps they dont have to cheap out on Flacco and they get in a bidding war for Rodgers or Wilson or Darnold. Guaranteed contracts are a big win for players in a league without a salary cap like MLB but with a salary cap they are only good for particular players because they mean much less money or no offer at all for others because that money is taken. I see why many players want them. I see why agents want to say they are the ones who can get them. But I dont see why fans care.

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

AI actually does a decent job of compiling information that you can verify yourself. The snippet that I posted was an exact compilation of what I knew as fact and saved me from having to type it all out.

As for razors, I have a fairly extensive collection of Gillette razors that have ranged from the earliest regular production year of 1904 through the latest of the double edges and even into the band era. I wouldn't depend on AI for anything in totality, but if it's scraping reflects what I know for a fact I have no problem sharing it.

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

I agree completely with this one sentence.

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

Wait….he brought up razors in general, and you just happen to have a collection of razors dating back to the early 1900’s? Are you serious dude? That is random and coincidental af.

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

Completely serious. I sold that 1904 set for $600 after buying it for $175 a year earlier. I have collected, restored, and sold hundreds of vintage safety razors over the past 25 years with the vast majority being Gillettes. And, yes, I thought that was rather random from the Dude, as well. I have written several "articles" on the history of the razors on websites such as https://www.badgerandblade.com and https://theshaveden.com

https://blackandgold.com/u/4973-albu...cture1527.jpeg

https://blackandgold.com/u/4973-albu...cture1526.jpeg

https://blackandgold.com/u/4973-albu...cture1525.jpeg

https://blackandgold.com/u/4973-albu...cture1524.jpeg

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...b0fb823ee9.jpg

By the way, that display case is a converted antique radio cabinet.

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

Also by the way, the cabinet picture is current after a reorganization to better display my pride and joy, the 1918 No. 00G Officer’s Gold Set, in near mint unused condition complete with original inserts and shipping box. Check out the included price card showing $10.00! That was a ton of money back in 1918.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...40ee9e9ebf.jpg

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

That is insane!

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

I'm pretty sure I have been labeled worse. ;)

But, hey, it's a hobby that pays for itself and contributes to our cruise fund. :D

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

This is a quickie watch that explains everything.

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

Devils Advocate :bng:

Merriam-Webster
Collusion - secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose.

Just because the public does not know, does not make it a secrete or illegal. Also, lets not forget that everyone but the agents are employees of the same company.

Discussing the avoidance of fully guaranteed contracts as a general policy within the same company is a far stretch from collusion. The NFLPA wants to frame it as collusion because they want their players to get guaranteed contracts but no one else is concerned.

Lord knows how poorly players have performed after that big guaranteed payout. No guarantee is better for competition.

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

Legally, the problem is that it is not one company with legitimate outside competitors, it is 32 separate companies that work together to reduce outside competition. That is like if Walmart, Target, Kohls, Home Depot, Lowes, Dollar General, Rite Aid, CVS, Walgreens, Dollar Tree, etc all got together and discussed the importance of none offering sick leave. They are supposed to compete, in theory, and in return for the degree to which they don't (like the salary cap) it is supposed to be negotiated with the players.

But alas, as a fan, guaranteed contracts are not my problem. The salary cap is my problem, because without it, the Super Bowl is LA vs NY most years, or other big markets, and we are the Drays or something.

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

The salary cap isn't your problem at all, Bako. Your problem is that you think it is your problem. It is what it is. To obsess over it as a fan is meaningless and to a degree unhealthy. To compulsively obsess over the cap and the person responsible is likely a disorder. It sounds like a version of OCD to me.

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

It is a hybrid that isn't as clear cut as your example. Depending on the circumstance it can be 32 separate divisions of the same company. All teams fall under the NFL Corporate umbrella, so much so that the NFL decides how many teams there (limits competition), how much they are allowed to pay (salary cap), which cities get them, and who gets to own them. Not apples to apples with your comparison.

The Supreme Court ruled in 2010 that the NFL and its teams must be treated as 32 independent businesses, particularly for antitrust and licensing purposes, according to multiple legal news sources. While the teams collaborate to operate the league (this collaboration is what is being called collusion), they are ultimately separate, profit-maximizing entities.

If they had a meeting to blanket raise ticket prices that is collusion as the public is getting screwed. Guaranteed contracts have nothing to do with the public, that is an internal union issue between the employers and the employees.

It is convoluted to say the least, almost as if at some point, congress had a hand in forming the NFL and granting cities and teams (which it did).

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

Is it a better analogy if the NCAA is used instead, the NIL being what's resulted in a long legal battle from the players' suits vs the NCAA? While the NFL has a union, what's to stop a certain player from doing what transpired with the NCAA? It's clear DW set a precedent, one that owners don't want to become common place. Yet we see the 2nd rounders vying for guaranteed contracts, including our very own Tyler Shough. DW and 2nd rounders have created a trickle with guaranteed contracts. Is it inevitable like it is with the NBA now? What special player will have the balls to sue?

And btw, Chuckie Gruden still has a pending suit against the league and RG. Surely, there's collusion there too, neaux?

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

In what way is Gruden's situation collusion? He is suing because of leaked emails that showed examples of "racist, sexist, and homophobic language". That has nothing to do with collusion. It has everything to do with defamation of character, instead.

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

Sh1t Smash.... Without collusion there would be no New Orleans Saints so we should appreciate the fact that some days you are the hammer, some days you are the nail ;):bng:

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

The salary cap is a part of football. To argue that fans should ignore it is as ridiculous as arguing that fans should ignore the draft, the record, the score, or the down and distance of the game. They all play key roles in the teams success. Just as player nearing the sidelines may score if they don't cross out of bounds before they reach the goal line, a team may be able to assemble a dynasty level roster if they can add quality young talent without reaching the point where they are limited by the salary cap and have to stick with the senior tour instead to kick the can.

The only difference with the salary cap is that it involves middle school level math, whereas the rest involve early elementary school level math skills such as counting and basic addition and subtraction. Middle School math intimidates too much of the audience for the media to be willing to cover it in detail, once you start busting out x = (y-1)/5 to explain how a restructure prorates money, a lot of people think that its quantum physics or 'wizardry.' Many tune out or click away, but its seriously more like 7th grade and I try to explain and analyze it since the media won't. As a more neglected aspect of football competition, I take an interest in it. Sorry if you think anyone who likes 7th grade math must have Asperger's or something, but its really not all that.

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

Collusion could definitely be an element to the Gruden case. 32 purportedly independent businesses fund one central league office that is supposed to play a merely organizational role, more of a neutral arbiter. Instead that 'neutral arbiter' commissioner entered into feuds with various owners and coaches who he perceived as not towing the company line and being too independent, including the Raiders, Davis Family, and Jon Gruden. To further pursue that grudge, the league office apparently selectively leaked small excerpts from a sealed investigation to specifically target one NFL employee, Jon Gruden, for doing something numerous NFL employees including the commissioner himself likely did behind closed doors, likely as punishment for the many times Gruden, the Davis Family, and the Raiders defied the NFL and other owners. Imagine if Walmart, Target, Home Depot, Walgreen, etc formed an office to manage the mutual interests of the top 32 retailers, conducted an extensive investigation, then kept everything sealed except for excerpts of racist statements by the CEO of Dollar Tree, after numerous clashes with Dollar Tree over other top retailers disagreements with its low pricing. Yeah, that would probably be collusion.

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

The way I understand it, anti-trust and collusion are not limited to the public or the consumer. For example, business ethics trainings I have taken have been very clear that it is a potential violation to discuss contractor bids with a competitor, such as agreeing that neither company will offer a bid below a certain amount, or neither company will accept a bid over a certain amount. Monopoly power does not just allow a company or colluding companies to exploit consumers, it allows them to demand lower bids where their contractors can barely break even, offer higher bids that other companies have to pay because they have no other options, and pay lower salaries to workers because there is no threat of a competitor poaching their staff. Many of the big complaints about companies like Amazon, Walmart, and Microsoft have centered around what they have done to other companies, not directly to consumers, and sure maybe many don't care, but it really sucks for small business owners if Amazon or Walmart suddenly demand they wholesale at a loss or lose 90% of their sales, or Microsoft copies they product and preinstalls the copy on 90% of new computers.

The NFL is convoluted as it can do things many companies can't. For example it is very illegal for competing companies to agree to 'territories' so that each can have its own local monopoly, but obviously NFL teams can. But home teams are a part of sports, so the government allows that exception.

When you say that guaranteed contracts are an issue between the employers and employees you may be right. But it depends whether by the employer you mean the NFL or independent teams. If it is between the NFL and the teams it is supposed to be a part of the union agreement, but the union agreement does not address guaranteed contracts currently. Since its not in the union contract, its supposed to be up to each individual team. But if groups of teams are pressuring each other separately from the union contract, to make secret side rules, that is potentially collusion, because its happening in secret not in open labor and employer negotiations.

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

As a former systems and business analyst with an accounting degree, I have have been fascinated by the NFL cap and individual contracts in general since the cap was first introduced back in 1994. That said, I believe most current NFL fans have a decent understanding of how contracts and the cap function. The difference is that most fans aren't obsessed with caps and contracts, nor should they be. We have no affect on the cap personally, nor does it have any material affect on us. Especially to a degree that demands creating a IHateMickey website. LOL!

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

Two things that you are missing:

1. There is no discussion about paying less, only whether there will be guarantees or not. Which makes it a contract term, not value. Players can not sure for $x in compensation lost.

2. The public always plays the part of the customer and in collusion or anti-trust there has to be a victim and there has to be a value lost . If two companies discuss ways to manipulate the customers experience/value/price there is a plaintiff. For the NFL, it does not affect the customer and the public doesn't care so this becomes an employee/employer issue.

Because this is a compensation item understand that compensation data is shared industry wide in nearly all industries, that is how websites are able to tell you what a job in your region may pay.

Does collusion go on? F*** yes but this isn't the item to chase for it.

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profoo...sion-grievance

:popcorn:

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

Much ado about nothing.

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

There are always nefarious people looking to scam you. Especially when that kind of money is involved. I'm not surprised about the collusion.

Re: Collusion-Gate: The Secret Texts and Testimony of NFL Owners and Superstar QBs, Revealed
 

What collusion?