Linebackers can be busts also...
 

So many of you are picking apart Leinart and VY because in the past there have been qb’s selected high in the draft that have wound up being busts. I also couldn’t stand reading these posts about how great Hawk is and how half the people on this website think he’s the second coming of Lawrence Taylor. Since 1982, 17 linebackers been taken in the top 5 of the draft. Of those 17, 3 of them were worth more than the dirt I walk on. Carl Banks in ‘84, Junior Seau in ‘90, and Willie McGinest in ‘94 were the three guys that were worthy of a top 5 pick. Lavar Arrington was chosen #2 in 2000 but he doesn’t even start on his own team. Anyway my point is that choosing a linebacker in the top 5 isn’t a guarantee like you guys seem to think it is. Some of you seem more excited about drafting Hawk/Jacobs and signing Kerry Collins than a teenager in the playboy mansion. Truthfully, I’m not fully sold on the guy, the only reason I could see anyone wanting to trade down (P.S., the two worst words for any team on draft day, how many times does trading down work for a team? I know it’s worked but it’s not often) for Hawk would be to hold out on that 1 in 70,000 chance that your season tickets will be right next to his extremely hot girlfriend (Brady Quinn’s sister, allriiiiight). Anyways I am sure that when you look at the success of linebackers chosen in the top 5 you made the same assumption as I did…

There are 32 teams in the NFL. For arguments sake lets just say each starts 3 linebackers (I know there are some teams that play the 3-4 but I don’t know where I’d find that information) So that means that there are 96+ starting linebackers in the NFL. Now looking at the above paragraph that would mean that ONE!!! of the 96 starting linebackers in the NFL was chosen in the top 5. Now I’m not a math major but I believe that would mean that 95 of 96 starting linebackers in the NFL were chosen mid-first round and later (there have been some guys, good and bad chosen in the 7-10 range but Hawk’s going to be top 5 so I’m only using top 5 for this argument). Anyways, what makes anyone think that Hawk is worth a top 5 pick? Clearly every team in the NFL is having plenty of success finding good linebackers outside the lottery picks. Also, not one linebacker has been chosen in the top 5 since Lavar in 2000, that’s 5 years! NFL scouts realize you can find a good linebacker later in the draft; there are better ways to use a top 5 pick than on a linebacker. Why go against the trends of the NFL draft and waste a top 5 pick on linebacker that didn’t even win the Butkus award (given to the best lb in the nation) I have yet to hear one person say they would rather have Hawk and Jacobs over Leinart and Carpenter (or any of the other stud linebackers that will still be available in the 2nd round) and by drafting Leinart I believe that would be a huge statement by the Saints. Leinart is going to be good and he can start right away. He’s a smart quarterback (the Anti-AB) and he’s a great guy to build a franchise around.

Anyways, this is just what I think is the best path to take. I know some of you guys think trading down (ugh I hate saying those two words, sorry I just do, haha) is the way to go. And while I believe A.J. Hawk is going to be a good linebacker, I don’t think he’s going to be the kind of guy who completely turns around a defense. If you guys think that we are going to win a championship by bringing in a washed up veteran for a year or two before we hand the ball to Jacobs you are delusional, that guy won’t start a playoff game in his career, never the less win a championship. I do think Leinart (or even Young) can be special players who can bring home a championship for this franchise. The QB is the most important position in all of sports, why do you guys want to pass up on a stud? Draft Leinart (or even Young), and build the defense with our other picks.

RE: Linebackers can be busts also...
 

Nice post for your first time and welcome aboard.

Now back to the subject. I don't think anyone here has said that Hawk is the second coming, only that he is what we have needed for 6 years now and still have yet to see. He has more chance of contributing next year than Leinart or Young, who would both ride the pine for awhile and we would get a few more picks to boot and maybe even a QB thrown in.

Leinart and Young will not be able to contribute when we need them the most, which by the way is next year, because if we don't win and prove to the NFL that we are an "NFL City" than the team will be gone but we'll still have Leinart.

I am a Saints fan because they are from New Orleans not because they have that funny thingy on their helmets or because they were once from New Orleans and I would like to keep it that way.

With a brand new unproven head coach, he won't have the time to devote to bringing a QB along now that he has an entire team.

Hawk is the no brainer for next year and if this was last year I would take Leinart but I want there to be a next year.

RE: Linebackers can be busts also...
 

LivnaLieTimay if that is the case the safest pick all the experts have said in this years draft is D’Brickashaw Ferguson, OT, Virginia he is the closes thing to roaf since he came out.

I am sold. I will take him in a heart beat and dump gandy for anything available. Besides who knows maybe our new HC likes brooks and will stick with him?

But you know what he brings to the OL and the others it is the possible upside that makes you go for them

Could you please not try this political type rhetoric? Lavar Arrington went to three pro bowls in his first four seasons. Last year he tore his ACL and has not really recovered since.

RE: Linebackers can be busts also...
 

I would take Young or trade down. Young has proven he could carry a team and win. You can use all the stats you want and they come up even for the most part or Young a slight favorite but winning you can't put a price tag on that.

Your math on LB's are way wrong dude. You actually going to have to pull raw numbers and not got by that... you have to take into acount if there you are going to say 95 LB draft this year and one is in the top 5... where are the rest? Next year you have to take into account there maybe another top 5 LB now you have 95 still playing but 2 are in the top 5.

RE: Linebackers can be busts also...
 

I never said Leinart was the safest pick in the draft. I think he's the safest qb in the draft but I never said he's the safest pick in the draft. Secondly I'll give you Lavar as a good LB if you want, that doesn't matter to me. I'm just tryin to point out that currently, in the NFL there aren't many top 5 draft picks playing. Does that mean Hawk will bust and wont start? no. I'm just throwin out some different numbers for us to pick apart. And Euphoria, I'll take young in a heartbeat

RE: Linebackers can be busts also...
 

Oh, and thanks Cher... this is a great website, that's why I joined

RE: Linebackers can be busts also...
 

welcome we like to poke at you abit here to see how you respond and get all we can from you.
You an up stater? or a city rat?

RE: Linebackers can be busts also...
 

You got it Timay and keep postin. Don't let these chumps, I'm sorry I mean members keep you from your opinion.

Yes and this is a GREAT BOARD!

RE: Linebackers can be busts also...
 

city rat for 3 months now... "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm lovin every minute of it."... and hey I love a good debate, thats why I joined instead of just reading

RE: Linebackers can be busts also...
 

RE: Linebackers can be busts also...
 

Ok Kramer, simmer down now!

RE: Linebackers can be busts also...
 

you are proving to be my wisest of students, young jedi euphoria. my opinion exactly if we stand at #2 take young or trade down past 6. the 6th spot is the jinx spot, busts have been taken there this past decade.

lb's and dt's are our first priority followed in close 3rd by ot. if any saints fan is looking to win now, then hate to say it but brooks is your best option.

RE: Linebackers can be busts also...
 

The why did you! You know AB has had ample opportunity to succeed and has become worse.

Hey I hear Culpepper maybe available and if Hasbeen does get the job in Detroit maybe we can convince someone to trade for him.

RE: Linebackers can be busts also...
 

nice post timay! don't let winwin and euph get to you. they are like little brothers...they speak a lot of gibberish, you still love them, but everyonce n awhile you have to show them whos boss. haha

back on topic:

i would love to see the saints draft leinart, but hawk is a close second in my book. a distant third would be ferguson. lbs have just the same opportunity to bust as a qb, but the qb postion has a lot more hype around it and overall has the biggest impact on a team. a team can survive with a lb playing like crap, but NO team will survive with a qb playing like crap.

RE: Linebackers can be busts also...
 

You can find any position in later rounds, and any high pick can be a bust, that's true.
The question is, would you like to gamble on a single pick, or would you like to gamble with 2-3 picks?

Trading down a couple of spots can mean getting 1-2 more players, either as picks, current players on another team, or a combination thereof, while still getting one college prospect that is rated in the top 5 of all college prospects for a need position... you will also incur some savings since the bonues go down from position to position.

I like Hagsn pick, but I am a believer in making our O-line a focal point of our team, but I have talked not mentioning it pretty much. I like to see us trade down, just so there wouldn't be as much pressure on our #1 to succeed at first, because alotta hype could devistate a person. I don't care who we pick, as long as they help us out.

Thanks zach i though i would stir some sh#t with those but it was calm.

Don't excite the elders Hagan, ssshhhhhhhhh!

It's a overall good idea. He could help RIGHT away,

RE: Linebackers can be busts also...
 

A high 1st round draft pick is risky no matter who you select or what position. That's why you have to gauge reward versus risk. Sure, Hawk may end up being a probowl LB, but that wont seriously effect the team. One defender cannot make all the difference on our D. You can bring in LT at his prime and our D will get better, but it doesn't mean the D will be great or even good.

On the flip side is Leinart (or Young, I suppose). A good QB can make all the difference. It's not required, but it helps. People are down on Manning right now, but I'd be perfectly happy for the Saints to have made the playoffs as often as Manning has since he has come into the League. How many playoff appearances does Manning have? How many does the Saints entire organization have? That's pretty pathetic. My point is that this is a QBs league. You get a good one and you're likely to do better than if you passed on him and took another position of need - even one as great as ours at LB.

All things being equal, meaning players share a similiar grade, you have to take the QB. QB's simply mean more to the team than any other position. For once the saints have a top two pick when there are three potential franchise players available. No matter what happens we will have our choice between two of them. More than likely, assuming Bush goes to the Texans, we will be choosing between the two QB's. This is an offensive minded head coach's dream come true. The two QB's represent two completely different directions Payton can take our offense. And just think if the Texans select Young. Under this scenario, we would have to select Bush over Leinart. Bush would gives us the best chance at instant improvement. Either way, I can't wait till april.

Sure, there is a possiblity that Lienart could be the next Ryan Leaf, but the possibility still remains that Hawk could be the next Brian Bosworth.

The thing is that it is far more likely to turn a franchise around by drafting a quality QB, rather than a quality LB. Quarterbacks are much more difficult to come by considering that there are only one starter per team, whereas there are 3 or 4 starting linebackers per team.

RE: Linebackers can be busts also...
 

For those who think D'Brick is the second coming of Roaf... or even the safest pick... you must have not watched him play. He may be the best lineman in the draft, but he's definately not a sure thing.

RE: Linebackers can be busts also...
 

i wouldn't mind drafting hawk or ryans, then jacobs or even gradkowski later... but one thing is clear no matter how you pick it.... the lb's won't have success unless the def. line is vastly improved nor will the qb's have any success unless the off. line is remodeled... plugging in rookies just won't cut it for this team, being there is too many holes and question marks... i'm liking the new coach and i think that he'll keep this team accountable for their crappy play and will reward them for their successes as a team... oh and ferguson is probably going to be the best pick of the entire draft, even more so than bush... the kid is blocking machine, a big, agile, smart blocking machine