Poor Patyon
 

:o How much **** will Payton get if he screws up on his first draft. Everyone is looking at the Saints to see what they will do with the #2. He's got a lot of pressure on him to do good.

RE: Poor Patyon
 

On paper, it would be very hard to screw up in the first round. Of course, we all know what paper means to a dog... The Saints really need to make an entire draft impact. The guys they select in the 2nd round, and on day two will be the major difference. If they are able to hit the jackpot, then great things will happen. We will see...

RE: Poor Patyon
 

It's quite allot of pressure.

Re: RE: Poor Patyon
 

Very well said. But I have a question, that I just realized, which I would love someone to tell me for. The question is why are the three guys we are the most high on (Leinhart, Brick (who I still LOVE, but with Brown LT now)and Williams), when we have great players their already. My choice woulda been Brick, until Brown swicted. Leinhart I see as a safety for Brees, and why get Williams when we are solid their already? But when you look at LB, we have some names, but Hawk is good too. I want our first to be a LB, CB, or DT. But thats because they are our main needs. And use our second on Jean Gilles, and somehow get Mangold. Thats good enough for me :D

How to screw up this draft:

Step 1: Listen to offers, but take too long deciding
Step2: Choose the pick you would ina panic to not pull a Minnesota -- Leinart
Step 3: Try to sell us on how "he was the best value at the spot we had to choose in; besides, we didn't get any offers we thought were worth dropping down for."

Step 4: Actually believe we will buy that arguement -- then not run when we riot and march on Saints HQ.

Loomis and Payton can't really screw this draft up b/c any pick we take (except Leinart) fills a hole (even Williams). Drafting down nets us more picks and we still get a good 1st rounder, and we are in great cap shape to see what shakes out between now and June 1st.

...of course..we are the saints...

If we draft a lineman in the first day, I hope it is either a tackle or center. I don't want any guards. We have Holland, Mayberry, Nesbit, and Goodwin. That's fine with me. Personally, I'd like LB, CB, DT with the first 3 picks and pick up a C or T with the next two. Kicker would be nice on the 2nd day also

Who the hell is making the decisions? Is is Loomis? I always that it was mistake to fire Mueller first and Haz later...let's hope Payton has his voice and it's a good one.

I thnk on draft day, Rick Mueller has most of the say so...Loomis gets his two cents, and Payton will throw in his opinion...but i think the guy with the most influence is Rick Mueller.

I still don't buy that JimBone. I posted an article here about a year or so about Haslett, and his conversations with Loomis after Mueller was fired, and he basically was demanding then, back in 2001, more say over the personnel decisions. I think it was more like Haslett saying we needed a certain type of player, then the front office getting a guy who fills that need. I also read an article this year where Loomis said Payton would have more control of this draft, or a bigger part of the decision making or something. ala Parcells, but I ahven't been able to find it. Maybe it was a press conference or something. But what I belive you will see is that Payton will have direct influence on our draft. I beleive any coach we hired after last season was gonna demand a large say so in personnel. Hell, look at the FAs we have gotten? anyone doubt that has been caus eof Payton's influence? Now what he may not have control over, is if we trade down or not and what compensation we get. But I feel pretty sure that when it is our turn to pick, his will be the most influential voice in the room. Noone wants this guy to fail after the Jim Haslett era.

we screw up this draft by not forcing a trade down to get equal or better value for the 2nd pick. the only way we do that is by actually selecting anyone other than Lienart or Hawk. No one will trade up with us to select Williams or Brick or Cutler. Drafting either of these two will end hope of getting full value for the pick. Even if we keep Lienart, there's a far greater chance that Brees won't last a full season than Lienart being a bust, and as much moaning as this board has done over the quality of qb play in the last 5 years, not to have a quality backup (and don't go there with the "get one in FA thing", that futile thread's been exhausted) is just as bad as drafting an overhyped sucker play DE we don't need. We'll be better off taking the best LB otherwise as smart, fast, gap filling tacklers have been absent in the D for the better part of this century.

I don't want Loomis making the picks. Let him stick to contracts.

So do you think taking a backup to your 60 million dollar QB value? I think Ferguson is value because you have a starter for a long time at tackle...and i think Hawk is value because you add a playmaking LB to your team that you havent had in years...so what if it is higher than he is "supposed" to go...he adds the most to our team at this time.

10 Million...Could be gone next year.

What if he plays up to expectations? then what? What if he is just average and then you just threw away $10 million for one season? I have to think that the Brees signing is a long term thing no matter how you look at it.

I don't think so. Signing Brees has served it's purpose 1) It excited the fans. 2) Excited fans bought up gobs of season tickets. It has already paid for itself, AND we had the money, AND we aren't pigeon-holed in the draft. I look at it as an investment they made. By the season ticket sales, it was obviously a good investment. So if Brees never takes a snap, pockets his $10 mil and is not back next year, he still served an important purpose, he brought fans back to the Saints, and brought new fans with him when we signed him. IMO, that was worth the $10 mil we gave him this year. If he plays, great. But I wouldn't consider the money a waste if he didn;t. It's not like it cash strapped us, we are still 14 mil plus under the cap.

I undrestand that it generated excitement...and thats great...but my question is this...do you really take a Qb with the second pick in the draft after paying him what you paid him? That would be like signing him with expectations that he is going to fail. Then, when he doesnt fail, like in San Diego, and you have him with all his money, and then Leinart with all his money, what do you do then? I dont think taking a QB is a logical choice unless you are convinced that he wont do well.

I view the Brees signing as what it is: a very expensive one year gamble, and currently there's absolutely no insurance. None of the quarterbacks on the roster nor the quarterbacks in FA are viable within the parameters of the next two years. Most would agree that it takes at least that long to get a rookie qb up to NFL speed no matter how great they were in college (system dependent, admittedly, and could be faster). SD actually did the right thing for their franchise - they had a competition with the incumbent and a very high profile qb, which the incumbent surprisingly won. Two years later, the incumbent goes down with a career threatening injury, and guess what - they've got a superlative replacement. Why can't the Saints be that smart - or do you think this franchise is immune to misfortune?

Because San Diego was a better team at the time...they had a solid defense with some veterans and some young DB's that all put it together...the Saints dont have that. The needs here are for players that can make an impact now...not be some sort of contingency plan just in case he gets hurt again.

Whoodi,

Could not have answered better myself. The main purpose for the signing was to excite the fan base and sell tickets which it did as well as allow the team to take the necessary step to relieve Brooks from duty further exiting a portion of the fan base and open up the draft.

While I do hope he plays this season I will not be surprised if he can't, or can not live up to the expectations placed upon him. For the prior mentioned reasons that is not money wasted, it's actually money well spent.

Along the same liness Plan B can not be Bouman, it could be Amac, or it could be quaterback X in the draft. Well know better this time next week. As such a drafted QB X may not be a backup but rather our future starter. And may fall under the tutilage of Payton and Brees which would not be a bad combination to learn from.

In any event, I'm just trying to point out he's only a 10 Mil investment. The FO has options, so until he plays a down without further injury he was a 10 mil advertising campain in my mind.

Well he is selling tickets. Though I like to think that he's much more than that. My father always said the Saints should have never gotten rid of Delhomme. Though he wasn't as physically gifted as Brooks, he was competitve and more importantly a leader. Put someone else's brain and drive into Brook's body and he'd be visiting Hawaii almost every year. But the guy almost seems content with his own mediority. I'm not saying everything was his fault, but if the guys around you are dragging you've gotta step up and snap em out of it. I think Brees gives us that finally.

if i may add to this.........what would we have paid brooks? and as far as who had decisions in the draft, the coaches have great imput, but it all comes down to money, and that is loomis department...........what benson will and will not spend...........smitty

[quote]If he plays, great. But I wouldn't consider the money a waste if he didn;t. It's not like it cash strapped us, we are still 14 mil plus under the cap.

You think if he doesn't play great those ticket sales are gonna stay like that? Although Benson really doesn't care what happens as long as he get's his.

[quote="Savant"]Well, as far as I understand, they long ago sold about 66% more SEASON tickets than they did last year at the same time. How much better do they have to do? IT doesn't matter what happens with Brees now, them puppies is sold. lol

Like I said before Plan B will need to keep the fans comming and bying those beverages. Winning is going to be the thing to accomplish this feat. If there is no W's the dome I'm sure will be empty come week 12

Yes. But from a fan's standpoint, is this a quick cash-in for a man with no intent to keep the team in New Orleans? I know New Orleans isn't a big business market, but I'm not sure if the cities economy could withstand losing the Saints. Even though I don't live there, it is my homestate and I've been a Saint's fan since I could remember. It just worries me. I'd like to see him sell the team to a native who was intent on winning and keeping the Saints where they're at.

Whoa bro, I understand the sentiment, but I can't put myself in that mindset right now. I know some people might, and they may wanna talk about that albatross hanging over our heads, but I can't. Right now, I am telling myself everything is going pretty good in saintsland, and I don't wanna throw bad karma in there at this moment. But I know how you feel, believe me. It's always there until something gets resolved long term.

Yeah. I was kind of starting a seperate thread within this one. Bad joo joo.

What San Diego team were YOU watching? They were the absolute worst team in the league. As bad as the Saints were last year, they were Super Bowl contenders by comparison. Which is why Eli refused to sign with them, dontcha recall? The SD offense put up huge numbers, mostly after the team was well behind, had the 5th worse time of possesion, in part due to the serious number of turnovers (29th in TO margin) and the porous defense (27th in Total D). Both Brees and Flutie were running for their lives when they weren't being sacked 31 times.

SD got better in 2004 because they "drafted" Rivers, got 2 FA stud linemen and picked up 3 defensive FAs. And Brees wasn't coming off of a 360 degree tear of his labrum (career ending, usually) and a partial tear of the rotator cuff (see Chad Pennington's 2005). The knock on Brees was that he didn't play well under a pressure rush, which was alleviated in 2004, but the line wasn't as good in 2005, so he struggled. Our line's not going to be nearly as good, even if we do draft Fergueson, so expect Brees to get knocked around quite a bit. Nothing like hitting a recently surgically repaired shoulder a couple of times to warrant going to the bench (see Chad Pennington, again.)

You've got to be better prepared to make such uninformed statements. Your judgment is flawed. There must be a contigency plan, and drafting Lienart may be the only way to extract the most we can out of this situation.

You lost me at draft Leinart , as he doese not know what pressure is and can't get the ball downfield. But Kudos on the rest of the analysis

So we should draft Lienert so he can run for his life too and get hurt and collect allot of money for it? I'd like Hawk, but I think we gotta go with D-Brick to protect our investment. If not, we've gotta pick up some lineman later.