according to all of u we should keep ppl who start sh*t in the locker room...good idea lets keep some1 who is a problem to the team...thats one reason we did so crappy last year is because the locker room was divided...and because we didnt have a leader on the team...and haslett yea lets forget about him jumping on somebodys @$$...he would rather just look at them funny...if u do some dumb sh*t like the saints players have done in the past on other teams the coach would be all over you before u got to the sideline. and yea dwight was a real bright spot..2 picks from some1 who was supposed to be a ball magnet. and bullocks getting burned deep like some1 said...he was a rookie and had some rookie mistakes but for the most part i think he did a hell of a job once being asked to step in once bellamy got hurt. there was several times when he came flying across the field to make a play on the ball. bullocks will be just as good as dwight smith in my opinion and roman harper is gonna be a good saftey also...he's gonna have to sit back most likely this year and learn from bellamy but from everything they say about him he's gonna be a hell of a saftey...so stop whining about it, its already said and done and no matter what we say or how much we whine he's not coming back and since he was a cancer in the locker room i say good riddens we dont need problem spots like that hanging around...oh and also about not getting nothing for him...he has been on the trading block since day one of the draft...if they coulda got something for him they woulda traded him...idk where u heard about the bucs supposedly offering us a third round pick but if we coulda got a third round pick we woulda jumped all over it...i mean come on and think for a sec ppl...all the eagles had to give up for T.O. was a 2nd round pick...teams dont like trading away their draft picks because they can get good young players instead of some1 who will be losing his momentum in 3-4 years. and he had a lot of money on his contract...nobody wanted to pay him all that...and yea we are going with younger safteys...yea we have some older vets but we got bullocks and harper which will be our starters for years to come

Nuff said. The staff makes a no brainer move of drafting Reggie Bush, and you'd think they walk on water with all this "benefit of the doubt" stuff. It was a dumb move to let Dwight walk for nothing. Several moves have been questionable this off-season, and several have been great. I would hate for there to be only praise for the good moves, and the bad moves ignored. That's how Haslett and Co stayed here 6 years too long. And Brooks. And Sullivan. Etc., etc.

I think what everyone is pissed off about is the fact that a starter walked away for nothing. People offered us stuff and we decided to just let him leave for nothing....thats just stupid....i trust that Payton is getting his people and what not, but thats just common sense, get what ya can for what u dont want, cmon now........

All we know is what we hear. We dont know the truth to any of this. We dont know for sure that anyone offered anything for Smith. We heard teams were interested, but we dont know if anything was offered. It really is amazing how different things are in reality compared to what we hear. I know for a fact that Will Smith was brought aside by coach Payton after the OTA's and told that he was behind in the weight room. He was told to get his s##t together because come training camp, all running plays were going to be run right at him. Smith's reply was, "Coach, I hope you do." That was never reported...no one has mentioned one negative thing about will smith, but that is indeed a fact. Also, one more inside note, there will be 8 guys having workouts with the Saints on Monday and 6 of them are LB's. We'll see how that goes.

Even if the draft pick offered was for next year's Mr. Irrelevant, that's absolutely better than letting Smith walk.

Don't get me started on letting Bentley go...

Adding insult to injury, we replaced him with the Center that wasn't good enough to play for the team (Cleveland) that stole him away.

WHO CARES IF FAINE WAS A FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICK BY CLEVELAND? THEIR TEAMS FOR THE PAST FEW HAVE SUCKED! WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO WHEN KRIS JENKINS OR BOOGER MCFARLAND CONSISTENTLY BOWL HIM OVER!!!! JAMAR NESBIT?

I'm not a hater. I want the Saints to win every game, but I'm predicting at least 7 tackles behind the line right after Brees takes a snap. Maybe I'm still reeling over letting a mauler like Bentley go. But, how could we not have made salary cap room for him. He could've been a lifer.

I'm feeling like the ghost of La'Roi Glover is about manifest itself in letting Bentley go...

LOOMIS!!!!!

Someone already corrected you on that SB MVP, and added what that really means...
He was merely a role player playing behind guys like Sapp, Mcfarland, Brooks, Lynch, Barber, Rice...
...and this "the Bucs chomping at the bit to get him back" it's a bit of a stretch, don't you think? They released him, didn't they? They didn't offer anything for him, did they? Matter of fact, no one offered anything for him.

You guys need to stop obsessing about picks.

And again, with Bentley. His contract was up. He didn't want to stay here. He wanted to go to Cleveland. He didn't want to go anywhere else.

Let's set the record straight. Yes....the Bucs released him. Why? Salary cap issues. Here's some Economics 101 for you: When you have names like Derrick Brooks, Warren Sapp, Anthony McFarland, John Lynch, Ronde Barber, & Simeon Rice on your payroll (& that's just on defense), you have to release personnel to make room for the cap. :roll:

But, the Bucs didn't want Smith back right? :? Here's just one article from the Tampa paper.

Here's the link:


http://www.tbo.com/sports/bucs/MGBMP0W0SNE.html


No one interested, huh?

Here's that link:

http://www.pewterreport.com/article....2268&category=




Now, to end all the BS.....I'm not pissed about losing Dwight Smith. I'm pissed because once again we got nothing for a very tradeable player. In other words, we were "Bamboozled" again.

Aahhh......youth. Unfortunately, my youthful friend, everyone in the league knows how dumb our FO is. :? The Eagles wanted Darren Howard. We wanted too much. Eagles wait a year....get Howard for nothing. Cleveland wanted LeCharles Bentley. We didn't franchise him.....the Browns swipe him up in FA. God.....I know I'll regret this one, but what the hell. Oakland needed a QB. Everyone knew if we didn't trade Brooks, he'd get cut. The Raiders wait us out.....pick up Brooks for nothing. See the trend? :roll: Now.....everyone knows Payton's got it in for Dwight Smith. Hell.....do like everyone else.....wait until we release him, & get him for nothing. Let the Saints flip the bill for his remainig bonuses. Face it.....we've got Forrest Gump as a GM. That's what pisses me off. :evil:

Hey! Thats not very nice to say about Forrest Gump, he's a lot brighter than that.

Damn, ghandi is slaying them. I had to re-read and make sure those weren't me. :lol:

Over/under we release Bennett and get nothing for him too. As far as LeCharles not wanting to be here, who gives a @#$%? That's what the franchise tag is for. A non-exclusive franchise tag allows him to still negotiate with other teams, who would then HAVE to give us something for him. Second, players don't get to decide where they wanna go if you have a means to keep them. They can play and or not play and get fined. Since when did a player saying they didn't wanna be somewhere force personnel decisions? Point is, that was ANOTHER player we could have gotten something for, but got zero, except Cleveland's trash once they got him. Whether Bentley wanted to be here or nor is 1000000% irrelevant.

I understand about Bentley, and i somewhat agree, but placing the franchise tag on him would have been extremely risky...7 million dollars is alot to pay anyone, let alone a center. MY beef is that they didnt try and do something to lock him last year at this time. Once he got disrespected and no attempt was made to resign him, he made up his mind to go somewhere else. The franchise tag would not have been a good option in my mind.

Bentley signed for what? 6 years at 36 million. who would of thunk it? all that for a perrinal probowler at either C/G. I did. It was stupid. period. You would have gotten the picks. If not Sir Charles would have been happier with changes we have made. Just add him to list of great OL men we have lost during the haz and loomis love affair.
We payed Smith to much. are you telling me that the FO did not relize that within a week of taking offers, if not before? Pull the trigger asap. sucker bet to begin with and even worse bluff down the road. Mickey "the mouse" loomis strikes again. Add Brooks to the list also.
I hoped every one learned a lesson here. all those who over valued the players when trade romurs started.
Brooks a 4 or a 5? 6th or 7th was real.
Smith (contract) a 3 or 4 ? he was a 6 at best.
Way to many leaks in the FO period. We all knew to much for our own good. It is like wearing mirrored sun glasses playing poker. BRILLIANT

they need to get a real GM...not a bean counter we need a football guy...

... guess TB wasn't "chomping at the bit" that much to get Smith, since they offered no more than a 1 year deal if he couldn't sign anywhere else. Now, Smith is going to the Vikings to compete for a spot against Tank Williams..

...which simply proves that no one was willing to part with picks for Dwight Smith.

Proves that in what way? None at all. Smith signed with Minnesota for exactly what he would have made the final three years here. It was reported Tampa was interested in working a deal with the Saints to get him, even after the Saints said they wouldn't trade him. All that proves is Tampa tried to lowball him once he reached the open market. Quite the reach there to assume that also means no one offered a pick.

..of course, Whodi, of course :roll:

This is why the aint's will never contend. Replace proven playmakers with well crap.. But they are nice people?

Damn, whodi..... you beat me to the punch. :P Hey...wasn't Minnesota's defensive coordinator Tampa's secondary coach during Smith's time there. Hmmmmm.......why would he want that kinda' guy on his team again?????? :wink:

When people start reaching, you gotta be quick to break off them arms. :lol:

double post. :P

...geez...from the annals of "I win because I rationalize my posts"...

Look, here's how it plays:
I said Smith is nothing but a solid player and that there was no real interest for him and that no one offered a pick for him.
I get the "Tampa is chomping at the bit to get him" response, and how there was league wide interest in him.

I''d say, it it painfully obvious that Tampa didn't want him that bad, because they offered him nothing but a 1 year deal if he couldn't find anything else. Had they wanted him that bad, or even plain wanted him, being that he's only 27-28 yrs old, I'd think they'd have offered him something more that a 1 year deal. So you think he was low-balled. WHy would a club do that? Maybe because the club knows there really isn't that much interest in him league-wide? Heck, it further proves my point that they reall didn't want him that bad if Tampa low-balled him.

Now, as for other teams, only the Ravens and the Vikings showed any interest. The Ravens didn't seem that interested to begin with, and he landed with his old coach in Minnesota. And he wasn't even brought in as a starter, he has to compete with Tank Williams for the spot. Had he at least landed with another team, heck not even as a starter, I'd have said "ok, there was some real interest out there", but we are talking about signing with his old coach...

What he's getting paid in Minnesota is not relevant at all. What is relevant, is that, given the evidence, no one wanted Dwight Smith so bad that were willing to trade anything of value - pick or player - for him.

Sure guy, sure. Repeating it in a more long-winded form doesn't make it any more true. :roll:

I guess Edge James is not a good player, cause no one would give a measely second round pick for him when he was available, and he ended up in Arizona without visiting any other teams or fielding any other offers if I remember right. I guess we can draw the conclusion because of that scenario, no one in the league wanted Edge James, and he was lucky to glom on to anyone. I mean cause certainly, if a team offers you a good deal, and you take it without fielding all other offers, you can't be very good. Couldn't possibly be that what your team was asking for, was more than what other teams were willing to give. You couldn't have signed quickly, cause you wanted to be with a team before camp started. Oh, no, it's cause no one wanted you. Edge James, Dwight Smith, nobody wanted 'em. :?

lol back at it I see. his contract.

Smith did not receive a conventional signing bonus as part of the contract, but the Vikings will pay him the $1.2 million he was scheduled to earn with the Saints before his release. He will receive a $615,000 roster bonus and a base salary of $585,000.

In 2007, Smith will receive a $100,000 workout bonus, a $500,000 roster bonus payable in the spring, and a base salary of $1.6 million. For 2008, the bonuses are the same as in 2007, but Smith's base salary for the final year of the deal jumps to $2.5 million.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2529748

He will be cut at the end of 2008 if the safeties need another year to develope. If not I would not be surprised to see him cut next year. He can play but he needs better secondary help to use his skills. with Minni's secondary loaded with ballhawkers he will do well.
Why give up a pick if you know the saints will cut him. like I said we played poker with mirrored sunglasses on. BRILLANT. It was th FO screw up. Not that no body wanted him. They just knew the hand we were playing.

Exactly. Is it that hard to see? Same thing with Darren Howard. We could have traded him a year ago for a second round pick from the Cowboys or a first, #31 from the Eagles. No, not good enough for us. We turn the both down and Howard walks a year later for nothing. We could have put a non-exclusive tag on Bentley and gotten SOMETHING for him too. No, we let him walk for nothing. It's our MO. Our front office has NO IDEA how to handle a picks for player trade, and teams know all they usually have to do is wait us out. I wouldn't be surprised to see us sign Bush, cut Bennett and watch him go elsewhere for nothing. Saying nobody wanted Smith is obviously a ridiculous reach, or else he's dtill be looking for a team.

You are kidding, right? Please tell me you are kidding.

You have officially become the new Billy.
Edgerrin James signed as a FREE AGENT. He was at the end of his contract in Indy. The Colts could've asked for a 7th in 2020, but, not only did everyone knew the Colts would not be able to afford to keep him, but also not very many teams had the CAP SPACE to get him at the time he became available- Edge will get $14.5 million in 2006 alone - , the situation made worst because of that lil' charade owners and the NFLPA played for a few months with the CBA extension.

So don't go making comparisons between a player - James - who few could afford and is tops in his position with a player that everyone can afford but not very many wanted bad enough to give anything for him, other than a salary. It just doesn't compare.

sure, sure man. Whatever you say. THE POINT IS, when he was offered for as little as a second round pick, no one bit on James, aPREMIERE player. Same with Shaun Alexander. Same with Corey Simon, who the Eagles were only asking for a 4th round pick for. Stay with me now, WHEN TEAMS KNOW YOU ARE NOT GONNA KEEP A PLAYER REGARDLESS, THEY ARE NOT GONNA GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO TRADE FOR THEM. How many teams you think were content to wait for us to release Dwight? At least 4or 5 apparently by who was reported as interested teams. We lost our leverage when we didn't accept a deal when it was initially offered, as confirmed by the article stating "TAMPA IS STILL HOPING TO MAKE A DEAL FOR SMITH." And guess what, once we released Dwight, he became A FREE AGENT, wow, just like Edge James. Amazing how that works. Keep reaching though guy. Real Stretch Armstrong here.

No, dude. THE POINT IS that James and his situation has nothing to do with Smith and his situation for a myrad of reasons. But I'll simplify it for you:

James - everyone wanted him, very few could afford his salary.
Smith - anyone could afford his salary, no one wanted to give up picks for him.

So there weren't many articles saying "so and so are interested in James". So what? What's the point if teams didn't have the money to even come close signing him?

And I don't care how many articles were written about Tampa hoping to make a deal for Smith, the fact is, they didn't really want him, because had they really wanted him, he would be a Buc right now. How do you think the Bucs were willing to give up a pick for him if they don't even want to pay him, not even for more than 1 year?

It's simple: explain to me how is it that Dwight Smith is not a Buc if indeed Tampa Bay wanted him so bad and supposedly where willing to make a deal for him

But, hey, If you want to blast away at the F.O. for not getting a pick for a middle of the road player, go ahead.

LMAO!! Um, the Cardinals OBVIOUSLY could afford James' salary, but they didn't wanna give up a second round pick for him when they very well coudl have did they? I can't believe I have to sit here and explain this. Let's try again: IF A TEAM KNOWS THEY CAN GET A PLAYER WITHOUT GIVING UP A PICK, THEY WOULD. And have, on numerous occasions.

So, um let's revise your attempt.

James-Cardinals wanted him, could have traded for him, knew he was gonna have to leave the Colts and waited
Smith-Vikings, Bucs, Ravens, etc. wanted him, knew he was gonna be released, waited.

Diiferent how? As far as Tampa goes, they tried to lowball Dwight, and he took the multi-year deal in minny that pays him the exact same thing we would have in year 2, 3, and 4 here, with bonuses. The dude himself said he wanted to be with a team before camps started, and he took a deal like the one he had. Yeah, that means Tampa didn't want him. They didn't even get a chance to match that. Keep reaching. Dude was signed after only being out there a week, and he had two other offers:

http://www.startribune.com/510/story/574434.html


But hey, if you wanna keep on making reaches for a point I have yet to see very many people even agree with, have at it.

http://www.startribune.com/510/story/574434.html


Thanks guys. I gave up on this debate. Some people will form their opinions based on assumptions, while some of us prefer to base them off of facts & common football knowledge. :wink:

hey gandi you were not wronge.... completly. smith is a ball player. the FO blew it. we all knew what was going to happen months ago.
As for James he wanted out. When the QB and the best WR redo contracts to free money up for you and you still leave then there is more to the story than we know. Yes their contracts were structured in a way that FA was taking into consideration. They both mention him when they signed the contracts and why the contracts were structured that way. Then both manning and harrison went and asked him to stay in the off season but he did not. It is not that the colts did not have the money for him. He wanted out. Everyone knew it. the contract negotionations where not handled well the 2 years before and it pi##ed him of I guess.

It's not as bad as you think. There are reasons we don't see why this guy is no longer a Saint. It had less to do with talent, more to do with money, and competition at his position. Some of the changes the coaches have made with personnel, and playcalling will make his position pretty tight in the long run. I really like Harper on film at least, And we still have Bellamy, who is old but good. Also good character guy as well to boot. This year our defense will only have to be a top 15 to make the playoffs with the offense we have, even sight unseen.
One thing I really like this year is that it's going to be like a box of chocolates. you never know what your gonna get, at each position. There seems to be only a few positions where there will be definite starters QB being the only "safe" position. As far as I am concerned guy's like Joe Horn better bring their a-game if they wan't to remain on the team even, given there's so much competition. I don't think the coaching staff this year will allow so many dropped passes to simply fly under the radar.