The Key to Why We Lost
 

Boy,

Stecker did a great job today! Seriously, If a regular fan like me knows that in a wet and muddy game you power run, why did Payton keep throwing? Chicago used the power run and won. Where was Deuce? He had what 5 carries and did well each one.

We should have used Stecker's roster spot for Jamaal Branch and run it with Karney down their throats like they did us and use the FG and field position to our advantage.

Prime example: The key drive where we lost was Cundiff's FG try. We threw the ball 3 times before that kick. If we would have run the ball for extra yardage, Cundiff would have had extra room for the kick and we would have gone up 17-16. The safety and all that afterwards would ahve not occured.

We beat Philly with Deuce and we didn't even TRY Deuce today. Branch and Deuce could have hammered them all game long.

In the first half we struggled and kept throwing. When you need positive momentum, you run the ball and get 3rd and short. Payton was totally pig headed to not go to Deuce when it was obvious we needed it.

Yibiddy Dibiddy turnovers, not pounding the rock is why we lost...period.

RE: The Key to Why We Lost
 

watch the papers tomorrow and see duce played hurt from the first quarter on. that is a big reason. we dumped the run and got pass happy against a great defense. end of story. I do not know if branch would have made a difference when shawn decided to dump the run.

Re: RE: The Key to Why We Lost
 

Dump the run? We never did run. That's my point. Even if Deuce was hurt he ran fine when he got the ball. Branch is 6-1 230 and would have gotten north-south yards for us like Benson. We abandoned the run on Monday knowing we were playing a tough D in a muddy, grass field with probability of snow. We had a great season and we'll improve our D for next year, but for the life of me I will never understand how something so basic as power running in a muddy, wet game was never considered or even left as an option. REDICULOUS!

If we would have used our power run more we would be in the Superbowl. That was a foolish gameplan.

RE: Re: RE: The Key to Why We Lost
 

It wasn't a foolish gameplan.

Coach Payton is a great coach and if he was passing all game then there was a good reason for it. Deuce was hurt so we had to adjust on the fly. Not only that we were playing from behind for the entire game. Power running wasn't a real option, expecially against a Bears offense that can score so quickly. We needed to be up on them. The turnovers were the reason we lost.

I hope that's just frustration talking and you really don't think it was a bad gameplan. The better team won today because of turnovers.

RE: Re: RE: The Key to Why We Lost
 

okay so in the second half we did not get away from the run? i do not know which game you were watching.
yes turn overs were key.

Re: RE: Re: RE: The Key to Why We Lost
 

http://blackandgold.net/site/themes/bandg/images/blox1.gif

No, not emotion...logic. I'm sure Payton wanted to create mismatches and that's great. Activating Branch and using him in Stecker's spot allows you to go to the power game and/or still have a power back in a muddy, wet game if Deuce does get hurt. If you keep in Stecker active and Deuce gets hurt, then you have Stecker and Bush and are forced to pass. Branch would have been an insurance policy. Additionally, when things were rocky in the first half we could have attempted to run the ball...at least try it...to get 1st downs or 3rd and short. Belive me, Bellichick would have not only tried to run, but would have a contingency plan in case power running was necessary. We weren't set up for it nor did we even test those waters and we lost.

Forgive me for being slow but I didn't know that Duece was injured. What happened?

he came up with a slight limp early in the first and never seemed the same. More than once i saw him go to the side line favoring that leg.

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: The Key to Why We Lost
 

Three plays that broke the Saints backs: That fumble that wasn't a fumble by Lewis; the safety; and the sack that lead to a missed field goal.
As much as I hate to bring up the refs, only ONE flag thrown on Chi? We couldn't get a holding or pass interference for nothing! And of course that non-over turned call as BS. And seemed like everytime they got together and discussed a play, it was to the Bears benefit.
But it's over. Got a long off season (unless the Hornets pull a mircle of there assests), so this is gonna sting for a while (no pun intended).

Re: RE: Re: RE: The Key to Why We Lost
 

It's as simple as turnovers. Whether or not you think he had a good gameplan is really a moot point. Whatever gameplan he had, had to be adjusted after the turnovers. I'm quite sure he didn't mean for Drew to have to throw so many passes, but we weren't having trouble moving the ball. We were having trouble holding on to the ball. Coach Payton can't stop Drew, Colston, or the Beerman(although that one was questionable) from fumbling. That's where the game was lost, simple as that.

Payton could have had his power running going all he wanted. If we had fumbled 4 times we still would have lost.

O.k. now I understand. I was yelling for them to run Duece more throughout the game.

Awesome season. The Saints still have young playmakers and the future is bright.

I've said it all season...
Save the Turnovers! Win the game!

You cannot win in the playoffs with all of those turnovers. I don't care, WHO you are!

And what about the team just laying down in the 4th quarter. Made me sick to watch them give up! Not the way to end a run like this. Just not... :bnb:

Ok. I agree on the turnovers, but you have to minus one, on the Lewis return. That was NOT a fumble. Bad field position cost us this game....and what caused most of the bad field position? Bad calls, and NO calls.

Add that, plus the fact that Fred Thomas couldn't cover a golf ball, with a king size bed sheet, and you have a recipe for disaster. Thomas, should have been cut, and replaced years ago. He has NEVER been a great cover corner, and honestly, he should retire.

39-14 guys. This is what ticked me off the most. This was not a game, it was a slaughter. The defense played great, until they reallized that the offense were more determined to give the ball back to the Bears, and decided the game was over. They were not prepared for this game. Period. Who's shoulders does that fall on again?

Deuce was definitely limping after each time he touched the ball. Might be that his effort against the Eagles took a toll on him.

The defense looked like they folded during the Jones TD drive near the end of the second quarter. They were on the field too long for their own good.

Is all the criticizing going to reverse the outcome of the game? Will it help out in any way as we prepare for . . . next season? Well, then. Why don't we keep the negative comments on the shelf and offer up congrats to the Saints for a great and fun season.

Uh. I apologize for the fact that I am not out dancing in the street, wearing my Bush jersey, high on life, that we "had a great season". If that's your thing, then great, knock yourself out. I am mad. We didn't show up, and this was the biggest game in our team's history. I mean, if you can't get yourself jacked up for this situation, then please, tell me when you can. As I have said before, if this game had been closer in score, then I would probably be saying the things you guys are, but it wasn't. It was a blow out. This team is better than that. They started flat, and ended flat. Yeah, great season, thanks for the memories, right on. Now, explain to me, why the team looked like they were playing in the first game of the season.

In the games against teams with normal->excellent defenses that the Saints faced, they lost because of the turnovers. It happened again today, just like it did against 3 of the 4 teams from the AFC North.

Turnovers, turnovers, turnovers.

I think that's the problem right there. You think that the team "didn't show up". You have to give the Bears credit. They won the game. We didn't give it to them. They beat us.

We started much better than the Bears did. We came out moving the ball downfield. I saw this team trying from the very first drive. The problem was that we got hit in the mouth for a change, and we kept getting hit in the mouth. We didn't respond well afterwards, but I wouldn't say that they didn't show up. The Bears were the better team. They forced turnovers. it's not as if Colston and Drew were being careless with the ball. They got the ball jarred loose with tremendous hits.

Bears earned the win because they beat us, simple as that. Only thing we could have done to prevent it was hold on to the ball. Did they fumble because they weren't into the game? Not in my opinion.

:roll:

So, I guess the Bears just played the "perfect" game today. No mistakes at all, just completely perfect football, in all aspects. That's the only explanation for the lack of calls on their side of the ball. Not the refs being somewhat biased. We have all witnessed greatness in Grossman. Why even play the Superbowl? :bs:

Sure the bears didn't turn the ball over, but rex grossman does not deserve any credit for that win... he was timid and off the mark all day, and that touchdown was about as lucky as you can get. which brings me to fred thomas.... he's terrible which i'm sure you all noticed... asante samuel of new england will be a free agent after this year, and i'm sure will be looking for a big contract... saints will have plenty of cap room and i think they should go after him.... get rid of thomas asap and give duece the 22 jersey.

Refs being biased or not, any team that loses 4 fumbles is going to lose the game. Even if you take away the Lewis fumble, that's still 3. I don't see how anyone can overcome that. Rex didn't have to play a great game when they are wacking the ball loose from our players deep in our own territory.

But "the refs are biased" line is bogus. Other fans this season could've (and did) make that same claim that the refs were in favor of us in more than a few of our games. We got a lot of good calls go our way in games too.

Their D is outstanding still. I think a lot of people got swept away with the media falling in love with the Saints and saying how absolutely horrible the Bears were and how they had no chance at all this week. That D is still outstanding, although not as good as they were in the first 7 weeks of the season. The Ravens and Bears both beat us by hitting us in the mouth.

I have mixed feelings. On one side I feel the Saints didn't get into the rhythm that marked successful games but on the other hand, I saw some horrible officiating that created significant swings in momentum.

Case 1: Michael Lewis fumble. He didn't fumble. He was down. Result was a short field for the Bears and a field goal.

Case 2: Offensive interference call. Casual contact within five yards. Official makes the call behind the defensive player. How could he have seen Copper? Result was a swing of 17 yards -- 2-3-NO31 vs 1-20-NO14. Saints punt. Another short field and a Bears field goal.

Case 3: Brees fumble in the fourth quarter. Brees had the ball knocked out of a tucked position but still held it on his side when he went down. Result yet again. Short field. Demoralized defense. Bears touchdown.

Take these mistakes by the zebras away. What happens? Of course, we'll never know. But, I feel cheated that we didn't get the chance to play without having the deck stacked against us. No, we didn't play at the same level we were capable of but, I firmly believe, we could have still beat this team, this day, on a head-to-head in the final minutes. Their defense caused the safety that changed the tone of the game. But, what if the score had been 14-12 New Orleans at that point? Would the Saints have folded or the Bears been so confident?

If Deuce was hurt as conjectured, then our gameplan was obviously disrupted. If not, we made a vital mistake not to use him more.

Brees looked like he was trying everything he could. He threw behind a few receivers but on a couple of those on replay, it appeared that he had little choice because of the pass rush.

So, at some level, I want to credit the Bears defense with humbling our offense. They created the situations in which we did not execute. They caused the safety via a strong rush. But, I can't give credit to the so-called Bears offense. They got short fields and couldn't convert when the game was still being contested. With our offense, it would have been Cha-Ching.
I'm at a lost to understand how the current play of Rex Grossman gets him the honor of playing in a Super Bowl. Cruel world.

I feel the Saints played honorably although the score does not reflect it. I feel they were not playing their best although I think it might have been good enough if the officiating had been better. I am saddened that a golden opportunity has passed us by. Success is fleeting (remember the year 2000) and this combination of players/coaches/staff will surely shift. One or more fine players will be traded, be past his prime, be hurt, or fall to free agency. So, it will be a different Saints team next year - not this one that had made history. I am sad. A great chapter has ended and I miss it already. Today is for grief and pain. Tomorrow I can talk about what a ride it's been. But, today I will cry in my beer and think about the Super Bowl that could have been.

The true turning point of the game came when Reggie Bush pointed his finger at Brian Urlacher and hot dogged over the goal line. Say what you will about turnovers, refs, etc, that was the single rallying moment for the Bears. During the press conferences after the game, each player pointed to that event as their transcendant moment.

There's a difference between winning and beating. If you go into the game thinking you have to beat the opposition, you've lost. If you go into the game trying to win it, you've got a chance. The bears kept everything in front of them and waited until the Saints self destructed trying to beat them. I wasn't all that impressed with the Bears, but I was mystified by practically everything the Saints did in losing.

I hope this feeling lingers into next season and pisses them off so much that they never want to feel like this again.

I also was calling Deuce's name all game. Had no clue he was hurt. Now it makes sense. I agree that Bush didn't help his team with the taunting. I think he'll learn from it.

A lot of things went right for the Saints this year--very few injuries, some lucky bounces, and the unexpected success of Colston for example. Next year will be tougher, but I think the team will be better. They've built a solid foundation on the model of the Patriots, with good coaching, team-first mindset, and the critical decision to hire players with heart and smarts instead of good athletes who can't play football. I'm optimistic the Saints' success will continue for a long time, much like the Patriots. I'm not predicting 3 Super Bowls in 4 years, but I think the Saints will be in the playoffs most of the time in the next several years.

And if not, at least we had one good year.

Thanks, Saints!

Once again, with all due respect, this "we had a great regular season" attitude, has got to stop. Contrary to popular belief, this is NOT, the first time we've won the division, and also NOT the first time we've been in the play offs. For all of you hardcore fans in here, you guys' memories are not so good. I take it as an insult, that you guys seem to dismiss the work that the Mora era Saints did. No, they didn't win a play off game, but they were busting their butts for us fans, every game they played, helping bring the little bit of respect we did have at the time. Last time I checked, Mora has taken the Saints to more play off appearances than any other coach we've ever had. YES, this was a great season, but this is not the first good season we've had in our history. I seem to remember Atlanta being in the championship game a few years back, where are they now? I remember the Bucs winning a Superbowl, where are they now? Getting to the play offs, is not an easy feat, and there's also a damn good chance, we might not go back to the play offs for another ten years. The game is over, yes, and their's nothing we can do about it, but damn guys, don't disrespect all of the players who came before this team, by demeaning their efforts. They were, and are just as much a part of the Saints family, as Brees, Bush, or McCallister.

Man,

I'll try and make it real simple: Bad weather = run the ball
Deuce had 6 carries for 18 yards. Knowing we were playing in wet and muddy conditions our coach should have activated Branch for Stecker so we could impose our will running the ball with Karney and our O-Line with Harris out. Payton totally ignored the fact that it was a wet, snowing, muddy game and tried to play like we were in a dome. The Bears realized this basic, fundemental rule of football and ran it down our throats. We should have ran at least 1 of the 3 plays before Cundiff's kick and we most probably would have gone up 17-16 and the game would have been different. At 14-16 you do not have to abandon the run becuase of turnovers, except we never tried to run from the first play. The turnovers were in the passing game becuase it's stupid to be "pass only" in a wet, muddy game. Things were rocky in the first half and the way to right the ship when down by 2 FGs is to run the darn ball! We didn't plan well for it and Lombardi is turning over in his grave screaming, "What the hell is going on here?!" just like me. You run in wet muddy games. Horrible game plan.

Concerning Bush pointing at Urlacher..... I loved it. I saw it as Bush trying to motivate the team. He gave them something to hang there hat on for a short time.

Cheesy? probably but we needed a spark. I laughed at all the Bears trying to catch him..... gotta admit they didn't have a chance.

Re: The Key to Why We Lost
 

Here's a quote from Sean Payton today discussing exactly what I was talking about:

RE: Re: The Key to Why We Lost
 

i still have not seen or read anything where duece was hurt, is hurt, or might have been hurt..........any links? besides visual?