Haz on Tebucky..........
 

Saints report: Inside slant
July 14, 2003


Strategy and personnel | Notes, quotes, anecdotes

When the Saints hit the practice field for the first day of training camp on July 26, all eyes will be on the overhauled defense -- a unit that could have as many as eight starters that weren't in those positions last July.
But the position that's sure to receive the most scrutiny is free safety, where Tebucky Jones will be among those trying to tighten up a defense that allowed 20 points or more in all but one game in 2002.

Jones, who signed a seven-year, $29.25 million deal with the Saints after he was acquired in a trade with the New England Patriots, combines the speed and cover skills of a cornerback with the size of an outside linebacker at 6 feet, 2 inches and 230 pounds.

"He's a big man," Saints coach Jim Haslett said. "He's got a certain presence out there. I think he's ready to blossom."

Jones started for the Patriots in their stunning Super Bowl XXXVI win over the St. Louis Rams -- a victory which came in his new home stadium -- and Haslett expects Jones to bring that winning edge to the Saints' defense.

Haslett said it all starts with Jones' versatility.

"We had problems last year when teams came out with three and four wide receivers and you don't know what you were getting," Haslett said. "They mask it and they've got halfbacks like Deuce (McAllister) that can go out and play wide receiver. If you don't have a safety that can go out and cover and play some man-to-man or disguise and play zone and go out and play bump and do some different things than blitz, I think you're limiting yourself on defense.

"Tebucky gives us that ability that we don't have to worry about having 10 personnel groupings." He said. "He'll get more reps if we have one, two, three personnel groupings and he can see things more. I think this gives you flexibility in your defense that we haven't had since I've been here."

"Tebucky has speed and range, and he's a big man," said defensive coordinator Rick Venturi. "He gives you a little different dimension at safety than you normally would have. I've always liked him."

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

How do you tell when a safety is out of position or makes a mistake? This is one position on the defense that doesn\'t get pointed out when they make a mistake because it\'s assumed that the cornerback just got beat.

Fact is that haveing a great safety with great speed makes the whole secondary much much better. Sammy Knight made some picks and laid some leather on the opposing teams receivers but he lacked the speed to get to a receiver once the ball was in the air.

Tebucky Jones has all the qualites that Sammy Knight has with one very important difference. SPEED!!!

I actually think our seconday has the potential to be one of the best in the league this year.

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

How do you tell when a safety is out of position or makes a mistake? This is one position on the defense that doesn\'t get pointed out when they make a mistake because it\'s assumed that the cornerback just got beat.

Fact is that haveing a great safety with great speed makes the whole secondary much much better. Sammy Knight made some picks and laid some leather on the opposing teams receivers but he lacked the speed to get to a receiver once the ball was in the air.


Tebucky Jones has all the qualites that Sammy Knight has with one very important difference. SPEED!!!

I actually think our seconday has the potential to be one of the best in the league this year.

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

With Sammy, you knew what kind of play you would get out him. Tebucky has had some inconsistencies in the past. Just ask any Pats fan.

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

Like I said they have the same qualites. Sammy Knight allowed a lot of deep passes to get completed in the seconday last year. He did not have the speed to cover the 4th receiver or the back out of the back field.

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

But, was that due to inconsistent play or lack of speed? Don\'t say both, either, Sammy was probably the hardest working player on the defense last year.

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

Don\'t get me wrong I loved Sammy Knight. One of his biggest assets was his work ethic. He was a classic over acheiver. He had an instict for the football but in my opinion his lack of speed has hurt the secondary for the last few years.

I think Tebucky will have a big of an impact on the defensive side of the ball as anyone, but we\'ll see....

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

Sammy is very good at anticipating where the QB wants to throw. Even with his lack of speed he still was considered a \"ball hawk\". Jones is pretty good in this department, but not as good as Sammy. I would also consider as the harder hitter (marginal). Overall Jones is an upgrade, but not a huge upgrade.
Regarding the second part of your quote I can only ask: REALLY?!? I said before that I expect the unit to be solid and strongly support the decision not to draft a CB in the first 3 rounds (would have liked one later on though), but all of the projected starters have question marks of different sizes next to their names. We\'ll see, I guess.

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

Who considered him a ball hawk? Not me!! He made some picks but as many times as the ball was thrown against us, that\'s not unexpected.

You put Jones back there and you see how many picks he gets.

And yes I think our secondary will be very good this year along with the rest of the defensive side of the ball.

Sammy Knight had some skills but Jones is a big upgrade because of the style of defensive Haslett wants to run this year.

[Edited on 17/7/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

\"Knight has been a part of so many turnovers in his career ? 32 with one game left on the schedule ? it can no longer be explained as good fortune. Some of his teammates call him a ball hawk, and others say Knight is a playmaker. Either way, he?s a football magnet.\" (neworleanssaints.com)
\"Safety Sammy Knight is an opportunistic ball hawk.\" (CBFans Forum - Chicago Bears)
\"Hard-hitting ball hawk ...\" (from his nfl.com bio)

And most importantly I said so.

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

Bu Bu But............

Here\'s the deal:

Sammy Knight was a very good player who reached the heighth of his inability. He does not have the speed to make up for blown coverage and because of that it led to a lot of completions that shouldn\'t happen with Tebucky back there.

But don\'t take my word for it, just look at on the field next year and notice that Sammy Knight isn\'t back there.

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

In a way I agree with you. His recognition skills didn\'t do him much good last year because even if he knew where the ball was going to end up, he was either to slow to get there or had been gambling that the offense would run a running play. If safeties feel they have to help out on running plays and even gamble a little they will look bad. It probably was a combination of both (lack of speed and having to help out the soapy-handed LBs) that made him look so bad last year.
It still remains true - at least in my eyes - that Jones isn\'t superior or equal in every aspect as you seem to imply (\"has all the qualities that S.K. has\"). Overall me may be a better player - or may fit the style of defense better - but Sammy had some qualities that Jones has not.

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

Bottom line is that we let a PRO BOWLER go b/c we didn\'t think he had the speed to deal with the track stars playing receiver and even QB now. Instead, we got a guy with all the physical skills who has been unable to live up to his potential yet.

In other words, we got rid of an overachiever for a \"POTENTIAL\" star. I like the Jones move, don\'t get me wrong, but let\'s not start talking like we got rid of Billy Joe Hobert and replaced him with Joe Montana. Let\'s see what happens. I think our safeties will be much improved and one of the defense\'s strong points... but our secondary will be average with three aging corners and the inconsistent play that is likely to come from both Mitchell (as he matures) and Jones (b/c that\'s his MO).

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

Sammy Knight: Old School smash mouth, can\'t break a 5-sec 40, wasn\'t resigned. Miami got him for next to nothing. If Sammy still had speed, he\'d have been gone quick and for top dollar.

Tebucky Jones: (actually palys a different position than Knoght) LB size, CB speed, elite player. The Pats didn\'t franchise this guy because they were disappointed in him. If they thought he was a bust they damn sure wouldn\'t have put the franchise tag on him and commit to paying him top 5 money.

Did he live up to his top 10 pick potential? Debatable!

Is he an NFL top ten FS? I definitely think so.

Is Knight a top 20 SS anymore? Hardly!

The debate ought to be Knight vs Mitchell and Jones vs Bellamy.

A win-win for our Saints!

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

Tweeky,

Sometimes you sound like a fu%%ing genius. Good Post.

Other times you make me feel like a genius... :cool:

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

Thanks very much... in a non-gay kinda way! :D

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

I\'m starting to walk around with my butt cheeks pinched together.

Better turn my Gaydar( no jab towards you Gator) on.

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

Get a hotel room

[Edited on 18/7/2003 by BlackandBlue]

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

The majority of Sammy\'s int\'s were from tipped balls. He didn\'t just blanket a receiver and step in front of him to pick off a pass. He usually was the recepient of a over thrown ball or a tipped ball. He did make a many of hard hits though causing turnovers. But he is slow and has no \"catch up\" speed. Tebuckey will be an improvement if in no other area than in speed.

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

Just thought about something. How did this article end up comparing Knight and Jones? Technically, Mitchell took Sammy\'s spot. Jones plays free safety, Knight plays strong safety, two different positions. This thread started out about Jones, so let\'s compare him to Bellamy.


:o


nevermind, no real comparison ;)

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

See, now I am confused. Two years ago Sammy Knight went to the Pro Bowl. Thus, it stands to reason that he was one of the top five safeties at his position in the league. Last year he had MORE tackles and one less INT (I think). Was the defense worse? Yes, and that affected his play as well. It\'s a domino effect that starts as a ripple up front and ends up a tital wave by the time you get to the safety.

So, what happened last year? B/c from what I\'m seeing, Sammy\'s play didn\'t drop off all that much last year from the previous year (one in which he went to the Pro Bowl). So did 20 other safeties get that much better? How did he go from top five to below 20 with no real drop off in play?

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

It\'s easy to see when a safety makes an interception or a tackle. What is not easy to see is when a safety wasn\'t in position to help out on a pass play and you think that it\'s all a cornerback\'s fault. How many passes went for completions because Knight wasn\'t fast enough to get there? What\'s more benificial, to make 6ints per year or to stop 5 or 6 completions per game?

Tebucky might need to improve in some areas and has the ability to do that. Sammy needs to be faster and that is an impossible task.

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

Bellamey or Knight really doesn\'t matter Tebuckey is still an upgrade from either. But you are correct in saying that Tebuckey replaces Bellamey and Mel is slated to replace Knight. Bellamey is still on the team for now as a back up. Tebuckey has the speed and talent to roam freely in the secondary. Mel has the mean streak to intimidate any receiver with his passion for hard hits. Bottom line is with the changes made to BOTH safety positions we have improved dramatically from last years squad. Maybe Knights stats didn\'t drop off that much but I can\'t count the times I saw a receiver open in the end zone catching a td pass and THEN seeing Knight close up on him....just too slow to get there!

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

So how many times was Knight out of position last season? All these experts on this board talk about how out of position Knight was. Name a time please. And who is to say that was Knight\'s fault? Could it have been the system, at least in part? Could it be that he was forced on almost every play to choose between stepping up and supporting our piss-poor DTs and LBs against the run versus dropping back into coverage?

I simply don\'t understand how for years Knight was considered a model player, a leader on this defense, a guy we wished we had more of, a hard worker, a playmaker, and a Pro Bowler. Then, we have one season in which the ENTIRE defense sucks - Knight is one of three guys whose numbers don\'t disappoint (Grant and Howard are those other two by the way and we all seem to love them... ), yet all of a sudden he is one of the major problems on our defense.

Pardon my french, but bullsh*t!! Knight will be a stud again this season. With the front 7 he\'ll have in Miami he\'ll be able to go back to doing what he does best... head hunting and ball hawking... and you know what? He\'ll be very very good at it.

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

WhoDat,

Sammy Knight\'s main asset was being in the right time at the right place. He was an opportunistic player. He was very good at it or else he wouldn\'t have made the probowl.

Like I said it\'s hard to tell how many times Knight was out of position but one would think that the coaches know and that\'s the reason he\'s not a Saint anymore.

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

The Saints also said that La\'Roi Glover couldn\'t cut it and that we needed to get bigger at DT. That plan worked out great right?

My point above is that coaches aren\'t always right. Clemons, who is a very good OLB, and Sammy Knight, who is a very good SS, are scapegoats right now. I do think the Tebucky trade was a good move for the Saints. I also think giving Mitchell a shot is the right thing to do. However, that doesn\'t mean that Knight is all of a sudden a bum. He\'ll be back in the top five or ten in the league this year in Miami.

I just want to make sure that the guy gets the credit he deserves. He was with NO for what? 6 years? Have we had a more solid performer year in year out on defense over that time? Respect the guy and be thankful for what he did for this team. Jones and Mitchell should be an upgrade, but Knight is no slouch.

[Edited on 18/7/2003 by WhoDat]

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

I agree with that Whodat.


All I know is the pre-season is almost here and I\'m ready to see how this defense is going to do. If you have the defense-well, you get the picture..................

[Edited on 18/7/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

Stop the presses! We agree... oh, I see why it happened. That last post was your 666th post. The devil has you... that\'s why we agree.

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

Who Dat. you nailed it! If we had Tampa\'s or Miami\'s front seven, Knight would still be here. He\'ll do good in Miami because their front seven won\'t give their opponents time to expose his weaknesses.
We don\'t have that kind of front 7 so Knight just didn\'t fit in with our 2003 plans. Other teams would have the extra 2 seconds needed for a WR to take advantage of Knights lack of speed. His lightning quick mental game will fit in well with Miami though.

I wish him well, like I\'ve always said... If every Saint had his Heart and Head, we\'d be defending our 3-peat this year.

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

LOL..........Excellent, Excellent....keep it coming......

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

Actually, there\'s a window. From the snap of the ball, the QB has on average 3-5 seconds to deliver the ball to the reciever before the play breaks down. After that initial 3-5 seonds, there\'s another 3-5 seconds for the defense to reach the QB and/or cause a sack, imcompletion or turnover, because the coverage was tight. This is normally the time you see the front seven reach the QB. But, if the QB has good protection, the offensive players will realize that the play has broken down, and the recievers will break off their routes and get open. You give the recievers enough time, and they will find a way to get open, doesn\'t matter who is in the secondary. So, that\'s a little misleading.

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

I\'m confused on what you think is misleading. You actually proved my point with the window example. On the Saints that window was about 3 seconds longer than Miami\'s. That extra 3 seconds we gave other teams allowed Knight to be exploited. Miami won\'t allow enough time to exploit him so he should do well with his instincts. Maybe I just mis-read your post.

If your front 4 is unproven, you better have a secondary that can cover that extra few seconds or you\'ll be standing there as Randy Moss scores behind you while you wonder WTF happened?

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

.

This is true.
This is true.

[/quote:039b28c0e2]But, if the QB has good protection, the offensive players will realize that the play has broken down, and the recievers will break off their routes and get open. You give the recievers enough time, and they will find a way to get open, doesn\'t matter who is in the secondary. So, that\'s a little misleading. [/quote:039b28c0e2]

So, what\'s the point here? I\'m sure you could put Grady Jackson in at receiver and sooner or later he would get open but what\'s that got to do with having speed at the safety positon?

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

My point is not to point the finger at Sammy. If your front seven gives the QB/WR enough time, they will complete a pass, I don\'t care if you have Jesus Christ in the secondary, the reciever is going to get open. But the coaching staff would have you believe that the big problem with the defense last year was our DT\'s and how slow our safeties were. I\'m not buying it, as I don\'t always believe everything I\'m told.

Haz on Tebucky..........
 

I\'ve said this time and time again, that it\'s very hard to tell when a safety screws up. I do know that an offensive coordinator looks for match-ups to exploit. Usually a slow safety or linebacker matched up on a fast receiver. Savy will only get you so far. Tebucky runs a 4.3/40.

Quote:

.

No arguements here. Our D-line played terrible last year.

I don\'t know that they think Knight was the big problem last year. I think they see Tebucky as a big improvement though. I think if you asked most experts they would say the same thing.

[Edited on 21/7/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]