Belichick fined $500K by NFL for taping Jets' signals

hagan714 · 09-15-2007, 12:43 PM

Relax please. I remember in high school and in college we always spied on the opposing teams to get there signs. Granted it was not taped but we all spent time watching them. It was in all sports. It is part of the game we are taught about at a young age. Why do you think Sean holds the card over his mouth? No lip readers please.
All this is going to do is allow the defense to have radios in there helmets. Which by the way Bill voted for. Here in Boston there is a some what common belief that he did on purpose to get the defense wired. The fans believe the fine was paid by the FO not Bill. As for the loss of a draft choice they think of it as no big deal. They got 2 anyways and could never sign the picks anyways. Cap will be two tight. Thats why they traded last years second #1 anyhow.
After watching the Pats FO for years this move does not sound crazy. Every team is a winner here. The defense gets wired and and everyone moves up a pick after the Pats forfeit theirs. A small price to pay in the FO and fans eyes here in Boston.

ssmitty · 09-15-2007, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by hagan714

Relax please. I remember in high school and in college we always spied on the opposing teams to get there signs. Granted it was not taped but we all spent time watching them. It was in all sports. It is part of the game we are taught about at a young age. Why do you think Sean holds the card over his mouth? No lip readers please.
All this is going to do is allow the defense to have radios in there helmets. Which by the way Bill voted for. Here in Boston there is a some what common belief that he did on purpose to get the defense wired. The fans believe the fine was paid by the FO not Bill. As for the loss of a draft choice they think of it as no big deal. They got 2 anyways and could never sign the picks anyways. Cap will be two tight. Thats why they traded last years second #1 anyhow.
After watching the Pats FO for years this move does not sound crazy. Every team is a winner here. The defense gets wired and and everyone moves up a pick after the Pats forfeit theirs. A small price to pay in the FO and fans eyes here in Boston.

if you're looking for an edge, try outcoaching without cheating.......
i don't believe you know the ramifications of this action....
the outcry of the public is just beginning to come to light.....
while you have some who say it's nothing, i see the majority
do not like it at all.....
we can't compare it to vick, should not compare it to bonds,yet,
or the ref in the nba, or the 1919 world series, or mcguire,
or, the list goes on and on and on....
it's cheating though and if you scan through all those who
have been caught at it, the penalties have been
harsher in most cases compared to belichicks........
this imo will mushroom like vick for different reasons....
i think this is very big.........very.........
and if you're the owner of the patriots, do you want
this hanging over your head?

ssmitty · 09-15-2007, 02:04 PM

i'll post this and no more......
all of us could go on and on and on
about what's right and wrong,
but in my mind i know.....
if cheating gets me a win, i'll take the loss....

Sports debate: When to cry foul - The Boston Globe

think about this, sports is a multi billion dollar betting industry......
if it was proved the team you bet on and lost on was the result of the other team cheating,
would'nt you demand your money back?
it's the least i'd want.......but what's worse is it would shy me away from betting....
because of not knowing who was on the up and up.......
it's really sad all the way around...............smitty

CheramieIII · 09-15-2007, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by papz

Well... I guess we'll just have to wait and see how the season plays out. I still believe the Pats are one of the best AFC teams and is one of the favorites to make it to the Superbowl. I'm sure even a division title should dis spell how little significance this is. I'm sure we'll see Tom Brady in the ProBowl again too.

However Cher, I do understand your point of view on this.

Thanks P and I understand yours.

CheramieIII · 09-15-2007, 04:14 PM

The disciples of Belicheat aren't crap either (Weiss and Crennel) Weiss only decent for a year or two because of the team he inherited and nothing more. Crennel will never be crap. I think their success may have had something to do with cheating don't you guys and gals. Notre Dame has no offensive TD's in 2 1/2 games negative rushing yards and they've been outscored 95 to 13 in 2/12 games. They suck the big one and the Browns look like they couldn't beat the Irish. I can't wait to see what the rest of the season brings.

UK_WhoDat · 09-15-2007, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by ssmitty

i'll post this and no more......
all of us could go on and on and on
about what's right and wrong,
but in my mind i know.....
if cheating gets me a win, i'll take the loss....

Sports debate: When to cry foul - The Boston Globe

think about this, sports is a multi billion dollar betting industry......
if it was proved the team you bet on and lost on was the result of the other team cheating,
would'nt you demand your money back?
it's the least i'd want.......but what's worse is it would shy me away from betting....
because of not knowing who was on the up and up.......
it's really sad all the way around...............smitty

if cheating gets me a win, i'll take the loss....

And that my friend determines the person you are. Win (take) anything by cheating (when your LIFE does not depend on it) and I say just what is the point......... Just who are you fooling? At the end of your time, YOU (not anyone else) stands up to count what YOU ACHIEVED not stole.

Tobias-Reiper · 09-15-2007, 07:41 PM

..as it was the case with Vick (i.e., everyone saying "he's going to jail because of dog fighting", which really isn't why he's going to jail) people are just holding onto a sound bite, as in "they were videotaping" and don't see the scope of the implications here...

.. at the beginning, I couldn't see what the big deal was, since everyone has videotape of everyone. It wasn't until I saw a clip of the Jets game, where the Pats cameraman was highlighted in the background, that I figured - or at least I think I figured

- why they were doing ti.

The camera in use was a bona fide TV camera, which has a powerful zoom, a boom mic, and seemed to be connected to something (a cable running off the back of the camera)
The cameraman could've easily zoom in and pick up the defensive call, and transmit it to the Pats' booth, knowing which play was going to be called. I would think that it would have taken the Pats 1-2 quarters to figure out what call meant what. Once they figured out the calls, cameraman picks up defensive/offensive call (possibly both video and audio), the Pats' booth sees it as it happens, Pats' booth relays call to def. coor. or Brady. Ex; the cameraman points camera to get the defensive call, transmits to the booth, booth determines that play call is a safety blitz coming from the weak side, and signal Brady or off. coor. to throw screen pass to the strong side. Happened over and over in SB XXXIX....

QBREES9 · 09-15-2007, 11:04 PM

Nickname Bela-Cheat

hagan714 · 09-16-2007, 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

..as it was the case with Vick (i.e., everyone saying "he's going to jail because of dog fighting", which really isn't why he's going to jail) people are just holding onto a sound bite, as in "they were videotaping" and don't see the scope of the implications here...

.. at the beginning, I couldn't see what the big deal was, since everyone has videotape of everyone. It wasn't until I saw a clip of the Jets game, where the Pats cameraman was highlighted in the background, that I figured - or at least I think I figured - why they were doing ti.

The camera in use was a bona fide TV camera, which has a powerful zoom, a boom mic, and seemed to be connected to something (a cable running off the back of the camera)
The cameraman could've easily zoom in and pick up the defensive call, and transmit it to the Pats' booth, knowing which play was going to be called. I would think that it would have taken the Pats 1-2 quarters to figure out what call meant what. Once they figured out the calls, cameraman picks up defensive/offensive call (possibly both video and audio), the Pats' booth sees it as it happens, Pats' booth relays call to def. coor. or Brady. Ex; the cameraman points camera to get the defensive call, transmits to the booth, booth determines that play call is a safety blitz coming from the weak side, and signal Brady or off. coor. to throw screen pass to the strong side. Happened over and over in SB XXXIX....

Finnally a somewhat logical look at the big picture. Silly isn't it. There was no need for it. You have to ask yourself this.
So why do it and get caught when they could have done it and never got caught?
Piece of cake. Just watching the game you can figure out what a defense is going to do from the sofa by the second half anyways. Besides that camera could have been placed anywhere in the stadium and got the same results. All you need was a seperate sound crew. Like TV does now. There was no reason to get caught.
What was to be gained? Really?
In the big picture it will get the passage of the ruling that the Defense can get wired and there is no more need for signing in the play. The penility is ok considering the picks involved for the pats. They are over loaded next year. As ar as the fines go, it probably would be a wash cost wise. Comparing the fine to the time and money spent to get the passage of the bill. Quick and simple.
Why should the offense have that advantage over the defense anyway?
Is that not cheating for the offense? They can wait till the defensive package is on the field to select the play. Cuts the play selction in a third. Oh thats right, the NFL has changed the rules of the game not only to speed up the games in order to keep the Networks happy and maximize the profits. But also to insure higher scoring games to appeal to a growing fan base. The key word is insure. The game has been tainted for money and because of the money. This is true of all professional sports.
Conclusion
A small price to pay to somewhat level the playing field between the offense and the defense. Which will truely never be leveled again because, you the viewing fan does not want it so. Thats right; YOU THE FAN.

For us old timers the game is not the same. We miss the contact.
Let the defenses play again in all professional sports, please.

hagan714 · 09-16-2007, 01:42 AM

Originally Posted by ssmitty

if you're looking for an edge, try outcoaching without cheating.......
i don't believe you know the ramifications of this action....
the outcry of the public is just beginning to come to light.....
while you have some who say it's nothing, i see the majority
do not like it at all.....
we can't compare it to vick, should not compare it to bonds,yet,
or the ref in the nba, or the 1919 world series, or mcguire,
or, the list goes on and on and on....
it's cheating though and if you scan through all those who
have been caught at it, the penalties have been
harsher in most cases compared to belichicks........
this imo will mushroom like vick for different reasons....
i think this is very big.........very.........
and if you're the owner of the patriots, do you want
this hanging over your head?

I understand and belive in your point. BUT you have to understand the way of thinking here on the upper northeast coast. Thats right there is a diffence. Do not lump them together with the lower northern sections. You will be corrected if you make that mistake.
There is the upper northeast coast, then there is everywhere else.
They truely think and live this way. They are unto a world of there own. They do not care what you think because you are not here, so your opion of them means nothing. Simple and sweet. This is the land where screwing someone over is a god given right. Everyone has a scam. You are not respected unless you get over on someone else.
This has not caused an up roar here at all. Water off the ducks back. So hang whatever you want over there heads. They do not care. You and the rest of the country does not matter. Fans are laughing and drinking to this. Thats the way they are. I am sure Bill will eat for free the next year because of it.

09-15-2007, 12:43 PM	#31
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Belichick fined $500K by NFL for taping Jets' signals Relax please. I remember in high school and in college we always spied on the opposing teams to get there signs. Granted it was not taped but we all spent time watching them. It was in all sports. It is part of the game we are taught about at a young age. Why do you think Sean holds the card over his mouth? No lip readers please. All this is going to do is allow the defense to have radios in there helmets. Which by the way Bill voted for. Here in Boston there is a some what common belief that he did on purpose to get the defense wired. The fans believe the fine was paid by the FO not Bill. As for the loss of a draft choice they think of it as no big deal. They got 2 anyways and could never sign the picks anyways. Cap will be two tight. Thats why they traded last years second #1 anyhow. After watching the Pats FO for years this move does not sound crazy. Every team is a winner here. The defense gets wired and and everyone moves up a pick after the Pats forfeit theirs. A small price to pay in the FO and fans eyes here in Boston.
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

09-15-2007, 01:32 PM	#32
ssmitty 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,879	Re: Belichick fined $500K by NFL for taping Jets' signals Originally Posted by hagan714 Relax please. I remember in high school and in college we always spied on the opposing teams to get there signs. Granted it was not taped but we all spent time watching them. It was in all sports. It is part of the game we are taught about at a young age. Why do you think Sean holds the card over his mouth? No lip readers please. All this is going to do is allow the defense to have radios in there helmets. Which by the way Bill voted for. Here in Boston there is a some what common belief that he did on purpose to get the defense wired. The fans believe the fine was paid by the FO not Bill. As for the loss of a draft choice they think of it as no big deal. They got 2 anyways and could never sign the picks anyways. Cap will be two tight. Thats why they traded last years second #1 anyhow. After watching the Pats FO for years this move does not sound crazy. Every team is a winner here. The defense gets wired and and everyone moves up a pick after the Pats forfeit theirs. A small price to pay in the FO and fans eyes here in Boston. if you're looking for an edge, try outcoaching without cheating....... i don't believe you know the ramifications of this action.... the outcry of the public is just beginning to come to light..... while you have some who say it's nothing, i see the majority do not like it at all..... we can't compare it to vick, should not compare it to bonds,yet, or the ref in the nba, or the 1919 world series, or mcguire, or, the list goes on and on and on.... it's cheating though and if you scan through all those who have been caught at it, the penalties have been harsher in most cases compared to belichicks........ this imo will mushroom like vick for different reasons.... i think this is very big.........very......... and if you're the owner of the patriots, do you want this hanging over your head?
ssmitty 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,879

09-15-2007, 02:04 PM	#33
ssmitty 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,879	Re: Belichick fined $500K by NFL for taping Jets' signals i'll post this and no more...... all of us could go on and on and on about what's right and wrong, but in my mind i know..... if cheating gets me a win, i'll take the loss.... Sports debate: When to cry foul - The Boston Globe think about this, sports is a multi billion dollar betting industry...... if it was proved the team you bet on and lost on was the result of the other team cheating, would'nt you demand your money back? it's the least i'd want.......but what's worse is it would shy me away from betting.... because of not knowing who was on the up and up....... it's really sad all the way around...............smitty
ssmitty 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,879

09-15-2007, 02:44 PM	#34
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,490 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Belichick fined $500K by NFL for taping Jets' signals Originally Posted by papz Well... I guess we'll just have to wait and see how the season plays out. I still believe the Pats are one of the best AFC teams and is one of the favorites to make it to the Superbowl. I'm sure even a division title should dis spell how little significance this is. I'm sure we'll see Tom Brady in the ProBowl again too. However Cher, I do understand your point of view on this. Thanks P and I understand yours.

09-15-2007, 04:14 PM	#35
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,490 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Belichick fined $500K by NFL for taping Jets' signals The disciples of Belicheat aren't crap either (Weiss and Crennel) Weiss only decent for a year or two because of the team he inherited and nothing more. Crennel will never be crap. I think their success may have had something to do with cheating don't you guys and gals. Notre Dame has no offensive TD's in 2 1/2 games negative rushing yards and they've been outscored 95 to 13 in 2/12 games. They suck the big one and the Browns look like they couldn't beat the Irish. I can't wait to see what the rest of the season brings.
	Golf and sex are about the only things you can enjoy without being good at them. Jimmy Demaret

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09-15-2007, 06:04 PM	#36
UK_WhoDat 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Wherever I lay my hat Posts: 4,000	Re: Belichick fined $500K by NFL for taping Jets' signals Originally Posted by ssmitty i'll post this and no more...... all of us could go on and on and on about what's right and wrong, but in my mind i know..... if cheating gets me a win, i'll take the loss.... Sports debate: When to cry foul - The Boston Globe think about this, sports is a multi billion dollar betting industry...... if it was proved the team you bet on and lost on was the result of the other team cheating, would'nt you demand your money back? it's the least i'd want.......but what's worse is it would shy me away from betting.... because of not knowing who was on the up and up....... it's really sad all the way around...............smitty if cheating gets me a win, i'll take the loss.... And that my friend determines the person you are. Win (take) anything by cheating (when your LIFE does not depend on it) and I say just what is the point......... Just who are you fooling? At the end of your time, YOU (not anyone else) stands up to count what YOU ACHIEVED not stole.

09-15-2007, 07:41 PM	#37
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: Belichick fined $500K by NFL for taping Jets' signals ..as it was the case with Vick (i.e., everyone saying "he's going to jail because of dog fighting", which really isn't why he's going to jail) people are just holding onto a sound bite, as in "they were videotaping" and don't see the scope of the implications here... .. at the beginning, I couldn't see what the big deal was, since everyone has videotape of everyone. It wasn't until I saw a clip of the Jets game, where the Pats cameraman was highlighted in the background, that I figured - or at least I think I figured - why they were doing ti. The camera in use was a bona fide TV camera, which has a powerful zoom, a boom mic, and seemed to be connected to something (a cable running off the back of the camera) The cameraman could've easily zoom in and pick up the defensive call, and transmit it to the Pats' booth, knowing which play was going to be called. I would think that it would have taken the Pats 1-2 quarters to figure out what call meant what. Once they figured out the calls, cameraman picks up defensive/offensive call (possibly both video and audio), the Pats' booth sees it as it happens, Pats' booth relays call to def. coor. or Brady. Ex; the cameraman points camera to get the defensive call, transmits to the booth, booth determines that play call is a safety blitz coming from the weak side, and signal Brady or off. coor. to throw screen pass to the strong side. Happened over and over in SB XXXIX....
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

09-15-2007, 11:04 PM	#38
QBREES9 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Haven Ct Posts: 23,989	Re: Belichick fined $500K by NFL for taping Jets' signals Nickname Bela-Cheat

09-16-2007, 01:11 AM	#39
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Belichick fined $500K by NFL for taping Jets' signals Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper ..as it was the case with Vick (i.e., everyone saying "he's going to jail because of dog fighting", which really isn't why he's going to jail) people are just holding onto a sound bite, as in "they were videotaping" and don't see the scope of the implications here... .. at the beginning, I couldn't see what the big deal was, since everyone has videotape of everyone. It wasn't until I saw a clip of the Jets game, where the Pats cameraman was highlighted in the background, that I figured - or at least I think I figured - why they were doing ti. The camera in use was a bona fide TV camera, which has a powerful zoom, a boom mic, and seemed to be connected to something (a cable running off the back of the camera) The cameraman could've easily zoom in and pick up the defensive call, and transmit it to the Pats' booth, knowing which play was going to be called. I would think that it would have taken the Pats 1-2 quarters to figure out what call meant what. Once they figured out the calls, cameraman picks up defensive/offensive call (possibly both video and audio), the Pats' booth sees it as it happens, Pats' booth relays call to def. coor. or Brady. Ex; the cameraman points camera to get the defensive call, transmits to the booth, booth determines that play call is a safety blitz coming from the weak side, and signal Brady or off. coor. to throw screen pass to the strong side. Happened over and over in SB XXXIX.... Finnally a somewhat logical look at the big picture. Silly isn't it. There was no need for it. You have to ask yourself this. So why do it and get caught when they could have done it and never got caught? Piece of cake. Just watching the game you can figure out what a defense is going to do from the sofa by the second half anyways. Besides that camera could have been placed anywhere in the stadium and got the same results. All you need was a seperate sound crew. Like TV does now. There was no reason to get caught. What was to be gained? Really? In the big picture it will get the passage of the ruling that the Defense can get wired and there is no more need for signing in the play. The penility is ok considering the picks involved for the pats. They are over loaded next year. As ar as the fines go, it probably would be a wash cost wise. Comparing the fine to the time and money spent to get the passage of the bill. Quick and simple. Why should the offense have that advantage over the defense anyway? Is that not cheating for the offense? They can wait till the defensive package is on the field to select the play. Cuts the play selction in a third. Oh thats right, the NFL has changed the rules of the game not only to speed up the games in order to keep the Networks happy and maximize the profits. But also to insure higher scoring games to appeal to a growing fan base. The key word is insure. The game has been tainted for money and because of the money. This is true of all professional sports. Conclusion A small price to pay to somewhat level the playing field between the offense and the defense. Which will truely never be leveled again because, you the viewing fan does not want it so. Thats right; *YOU THE FAN. For us old timers the game is not the same. We miss the contact. Let the defenses play again in all professional sports, please.*
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins Last edited by hagan714; 09-16-2007 at 01:17 AM..

09-16-2007, 01:42 AM	#40
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Belichick fined $500K by NFL for taping Jets' signals Originally Posted by ssmitty if you're looking for an edge, try outcoaching without cheating....... i don't believe you know the ramifications of this action.... the outcry of the public is just beginning to come to light..... while you have some who say it's nothing, i see the majority do not like it at all..... we can't compare it to vick, should not compare it to bonds,yet, or the ref in the nba, or the 1919 world series, or mcguire, or, the list goes on and on and on.... it's cheating though and if you scan through all those who have been caught at it, the penalties have been harsher in most cases compared to belichicks........ this imo will mushroom like vick for different reasons.... i think this is very big.........very......... and if you're the owner of the patriots, do you want this hanging over your head? I understand and belive in your point. BUT you have to understand the way of thinking here on the upper northeast coast. Thats right there is a diffence. Do not lump them together with the lower northern sections. You will be corrected if you make that mistake. There is the upper northeast coast, then there is everywhere else. They truely think and live this way. They are unto a world of there own. They do not care what you think because you are not here, so your opion of them means nothing. Simple and sweet. This is the land where screwing someone over is a god given right. Everyone has a scam. You are not respected unless you get over on someone else. This has not caused an up roar here at all. Water off the ducks back. So hang whatever you want over there heads. They do not care. You and the rest of the country does not matter. Fans are laughing and drinking to this. Thats the way they are. I am sure Bill will eat for free the next year because of it.
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

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