Deuce
 

Let me settle this argument now.

I know there are some of you who think running Deuce is the answer, but I hate to tell you its not. Running Deuce is effective if we have the lead but not when you are getting your butts handed to you 17 plus points to nothing. Only thing running Deuce does at that point is help the other team eat up the clock more and keeps the score even lower which if you don't have the lead and can't do diddley equals a lose.

Our D SUCKS, we can't put pressure on the QB and we can't cover my grandmother. If D was doing there job we'd be able to run Deuce and win... they'd be able to come up and try and stop him which would open up the passing game more.

Great example is the Colts game. They took away the deep passes and gave us running Deuce up the middle. They got a few points ahead of us and there was no way we could catch up if they took away our passing game. Thats the secret to beating us attack our D and take away deep passes. DUH. OUR D SUCKS the word is out.

Re: Deuce
 

there IS no argument, you're right, they're right, everyone's right, you have to stay committed to Deuce. The defense has to keep away from the big play. They're linked. It's not one or the other!

Run Deuce = other offense off the field = they can't score 21 damn points in a quarter.

Defense forces punt = Saints turn it back over = defense is tired, gives up big play = points scored against.

When you pass 3 out of the first 4 downs, and those passes are either not caught, or overthrown, or batted down, whatever's going on; you end up punting very quickly.

When you use Deuce at least 2 - 3 times of those 4 downs, you get at least 1 positive yard each carry - with less risk of puttin the rock back in the other team's hands.

EITHER WAY - I'm fired up to see the tenacity and fight in this team. The only one keeping them from winning out the rest of their games are themselves. Think about it. Peace.

Re: Deuce
 

i agree.
It's not as simple as JUST giving Deuce the ball more.
But, If you mixed it up better... Like using Reggie and Deuce in the same packages that would help. I only counted the Duo together once in the TB game.
Plus, Anyone else notice how close the Saints line up offensively to run?
I think the team needs to space things out more when they run. No more 3 WR's stacked just out side the tackle.
None of that 2 WR's on the outside of each side of the tackles.
SPACE

Re: Deuce
 

Well let's see...........Had Deuce not fumbled while we are driving down the field, and the Saints manage to score a touchdown. The momentum swings, The crowd is quieted and we have a lead. Who knows what happens then. THAT IS OUR PROBLEM!!!!!! No one is mentioning how the turnovers are STILL killing us. We give them up and can't get them back. We picked up two new DBs to alleviate that particular matter, and what has it gotten us ONE meesley turnover, which was returned for a touchdown! LET'S GET SOME TURNOVERS and maybe this team can Turn OVER this season for the better.

Re: Deuce
 

Because the D sucks, we have to keep them off of the field as much as possible...and keep the slow-pokes as fresh as possible - running Duece led by Karney. We have been giving up on the run toooo soon. Turnovers can be managed and controlled, lack of talent on the other side of the ball can't. We should do what we CAN do well, run the ball until teams stop our 4-5 yards per carry average. They would have to stack the box to do that and everything else will open up.

Re: Deuce
 

Bottom line is as long as the coach perfer to use Reggie as a feature back or forcing him to the RB (which at this time he's not built for the pounding)- the O will NOT be in sync at all and we'll be in for a long season

Re: Deuce
 

I agree BIGEASY. I love Reggie...but you can't dance off tackle. He is great in the open field, where he has been most explosive, and effective, and that is where his skills give us the greatest benefit. Let the big boys do the heavy lifting.

Re: Deuce
 

Do you guys know how to read... the problem is the Defense. You can't run deuce when you are down 17-21 points going into the 4th quarter.

Re: Deuce
 

Why, yes, I am certain we all know how to read and have been doing so for most of our lives. Thank you for asking.

I disagree with your opinion, however. The defense has not underperformed to the same level as the offense has underperformed. The comparison between the two ARE NOT EVEN IN THE SAME GALAXY. Everyone knows our defense is not good, it's a scheme defense that depends upon the offense's play. Fix the offense, our REAL problem and not a convenient goat to blame it on, and the defense will be fine.

Re: Deuce
 

The point isn't what should we be doing when we're down by 21 in the fourth it is why are we getting down so quickly. The answer is two-fold:

1. This defense may be worse than last year in every phase save the D-Line. I think the LB's are OK except for that big whole in the middle named Simoneau. I'm sorry, but he is out of position too often and when he's there to make a tackle he gets dragged 3 or 4 yards unless he has help. The DB's have not jelled. You can forget the Indy game cuz Peyton can torch even the best DB's. They were a little better against TB, but not much. Forget turnovers. I'd just like to see a few passes defensed each game right now.

Even still they are getting no help from the offense...

2. They seem to be running the ball OK. Passing has been horrible. Drew seems a bit off, but I think that is attributable more to the O-line looking more like I thought they'd look last year than a unit that has played together for a year already.

Nevertheless, I think the biggest problem has been our formations. Last year, 70 to 80% of the plays involved Reggie or someone else in motion behind the line of scrimmage many times as a decoy to Deuce's runs, but also to work on match ups. They don't seem to do that much this year and I think that is making them easier to stop. The opposing defense seems to have a better idea of where the ball is going and has plenty of people there.

My suggestion is to scrap this year's playbook and return to what was working last year. There has been a philosophy change that is killing us on offense.

Re: Deuce
 

Well you are wrong. When your D is effective you have more options on Offense to run the ball with Deuce. If you want to run run run Deuce you're D has to be effective.

How many points Tampa scored against us... TAMPA. We made Tampa look like the Colts. Yeah our offense isn't doing its job but fixing it with running Deuce isn't the answer unless your D can hold opponets to at least 17. Tampa HELL-FREAKIN-O! Tampa!

Hell if Tampa can score 24 points against you you deserve to lose.

Re: Deuce
 

On NFL Primetime last night our woes were discussed throughout the evening by the likes of Bill Parcels, Mike Ditka, K. Johnson, and M. Schlereth.

Ditka said Reggie needs to quit dancing and go to which Schlereth said he needs to stop trying to bust every run outside for a TD and take 2 yard agins in the middle.

Ditka also said You can't tell the O-Line to pass block 45-50 times a game. Schlereth agreed that he could never do that and he ain't no joke. They also mentioned it hurts the O-Line becuase they can't get nasty and run block. They went further to say that when things aren't going right you run the ball and knock the other team in the mouth.

Ditka, Schlereth, Hodge, and Johnson all agreed that we have to run Deuce a lot more. Quit being so cerebral and hit somebody. Hodge said that the Defense will play better if the O gets it going with Deuce.

Parcells said Deuce is important, but that our secondary is crap and there's no depth.

So, The Pro-Deuce fans are right and the Pro-Our Secondary Wears Miniskirts fans are right. We're not going to get Champ Bailey any time soon so I say sub KK for Bullocks. Sub Simmons for Simoneau, and sub Usama for David. Then Run Deuce like a Mack Truck!

Re: Deuce
 

On the secondary and LBs: we all know they're week...like worst in the NFL week. I really think the team needs to refuse to give up the deep balls. Play two deep zones and the like and force teams to beat you with the run. Trying to Man up on the outside and send LBs to blitz doesn't work because the LBs and the CBs are...uhh...not good at football (except Fuji, who couldn't cover me up the seam and MM who is eligable for Medicare next month).

Now that means that the DL has to step up and stop the run at the point of attack, B/C the LBs are not getting it done. Thankfully, I believe the talent is there on the line...even at DT.

Re: Deuce
 

I agree with lots of what you posted , but to this I have an exception. Sure, 40 or 50 pass blocks a game may be too much, but what does that have to do with their lack of pass blocking ability in the first quarter or first half? It's not like they look worse as the game goes on. They look bad from play one.

I'll be very interested in seeing how the cowboys do down the stretch this year. They went through what everyone was calling "Camp Cupcake", but seem to be on fire so far. Our guys have looked slow and worn out so far. Maybe the days of killing our guys in the intense heat of summer during training camp should be put to bed forever. It seems t me that practicing during training camp indoors shouldn't hurt us any since in more than half the games each year we play inside anyway.

Re: Deuce
 

I respectfully disagree..... Have you watched the way J David lines up? His technique is bad, his coverage is bad... There is very little pressure coming from W Smith and C Grant on the ends, almost no safety help (again).

IMHO, the offense is off due to the O Line....The D is off because of 11 players.....Hey let's just say that they are both equally sucky :confused:

Re: Deuce
 

I don't think anyone is arguing the point that both units sucked so far but one sets up the other. The D is far more horrific. If you can slow down a team then the Saints can play the numbers and run more but when they fall behind so much they can't keep running the ball. They are forced to open it up and they take away our deep stuff which makes it more difficult for us.

Re: Deuce
 

Respectfully, I don't think I am "wrong." I think I have a different opinion than yours, and I am comfortable enough in my football knowledge that I don't have act defensively in defending it.

I agree when you say that one set's up the other. However, I don't think anyone would expect our defense to set up our offense, at least not prior to the start of this season. On the contrary, I think everyone believed the opposite would be true - that the play of our offense would keep our defense off the field and force the other team to play from behind. In my opinion, the offense is what has let us down. The defense is what it is, a scheme defense that depends upon being set up by our supposedly explosive offense. Perhaps they've underperformed. I'm not sure, though, because it's hard to gauge the performance of the defense when the other half of the football team doesn't even show up. The offense has underperformed far more and if I have to identify a key problem with the team in that scenerio, it's not the defense.

To put it another way, if a turtle and a hare have a race. We are not surprised when the turtle loses, after all he is the slow one (lacks ability in the speed department and everyone knows it). On the other hand, if the hare loses....you have to wonder what's wrong with that rabbit.

Re: Deuce
 

Here is what I think Euph is trying to say....

On offense you take the lead by air, you keep it by running.

Our defense has not been able to stop the opposing team by air or ground.

If you are down by two or more TD's.....running the ball only runs the clock out.

Our offense and defense need to step up....equally.

Re: Deuce
 

No what you and others think should happen is our offense should out score the opposing team and forget the D. Ya need both. Are you aware how many points they have given up this year already?

If our Defense can keep the opponets close in a game we have a lot more options on offense, that includes running Deuce 30 times if they don't come up and stop the run. To keep them honest we can then throw a few passes around. When the opponets score 30 plus points on you that limits what we can do on offense. We have to throw more. Running Deuce is going to eat up the clock and only help the opponets win the game. SO the Colts for instance took out our deep passing attack and scored heavy on us. We can't come back as fast - forced to take the short stuff.

The key to beating the Saints... THROW and take away the Saints passing game. Look it up... its how we lost 2 games now.

Re: Deuce
 

Ok let's simplify this.

run, run, pass. 1st down

run, run, pass. 1st down

run, run, play action pass. Touchdown. 9 minute drive. everyone's happy.

Current Saints playcalling:

run(fumble). Turnover

screen pass, screen pass, RB draw. Punt

run, incomplete pass, screen pass. Punt

run(fumble). Turnover

Now you want OUR defense...much LESS a Ravens defense...to defend an NFL offense for DOUBLE the possessions they should be having to defend. Unrealistic.

Re: Deuce
 

Well said.

Edit: And to take a step further, we'll blame our team's problems on our defense's inability to keep us in the game you just described.

Re: Deuce
 

No its not that simple I am affraid. That doesn't account for all the points scored against the worse Defense in the league right now. Yeah I said it they are horrible.

I think I can QB with my grand mother at WR... and I'll look like Payton Manning out there. Sure our Offense hasn't been that good either but when you can score 30 points and take away the other teams passing game what happens??? TELL ME? YOU LOSE.

Re: Deuce
 

Euphoria, last year our defense was just as bad. What made the difference is that our offense executed and kept our defense off the field. You can't blame everything on the defense. Yes, the D is pretty bad, and they are partially to blame. But they are not the entire problem, so please stop saying that they are.

Re: Deuce
 

I swear we said all this last year. Next year we bit the bullet and get some young blood in the draft and let them play. We need to let Young play more. I am so glad we cut Jones. He would have hurt the secondary if we kept him. There was no room for him.

Re: Deuce
 

No they were not this bad last year. They are worse! THe only big problem they had was giving up a big play once in awhile. This year they can do just about anything to us this year. Tampa scoring on us that much... come on.

Re: Deuce
 

Teams learn quick. The second time or the third time around they have figured out what you are going to do. 2 things you can do:
1) It is up to you to adjust the game plan.
2) Just go out and prove that even if the other team knows what you are going to do. They can do nothing to stop you.
Well that last part (#2) we lack.

Re: Deuce
 

I agree. They said he was quick and played very well during training camp and the off-season. Let Usama play more.

Re: Deuce
 

During training camp and preseason, a lot of players looked good. Brees, Thomas, Simoneau, Henderson, Patton, etc. It was a small sample size and he wasn't playing against the best of talent. I'm not saying Young isn't going to be good or that he isn't better than what we currently have on the field, but I'm sure some of it was hype... we're not going to throw our 3rd rounder under the bus. Get what I'm saying? The same can be said about all our draft picks.

With that said, I really like Young. He along with Alleman were my two favorite picks and I think they're both going to be solid starters for us... eventually. This a team that went to the NFC Championship game last year. We definately don't look like it from the 0-2 start, but the core is still there. Have a little faith. I'm sure when Payton feels that when Young is ready to contribute, he'll be on the field. No need to rush him in there... if he plays horrible, his confidence might get shattered. We paid David a good amount of money... give him a chance to work out his kinks. Payton's a good coach... we'll turn things around. Patience... we still have 14 more games to go.

Re: Deuce
 

YEAH 14-2 I LOVE IT... here we come!