With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game
 

http://www.nola.com/saints/t-p/index...790.xml&coll=1

Coach Sean Payton had planned most of the week to use Stecker and Thomas against the Panthers, and he was pleasantly surprised that Bush was able to play as much as he did.

"(Bush) missed Friday's practice, and I felt like we needed to come in and have some balance in the running game," Payton said. "With that being said, we got Aaron and Pierre going a little bit in some of the core personnel groups, and we were able to utilize Reggie.

". . . I didn't think come game time that (Bush's injury) would be a factor. It's just the pain. And when you play running back, there's a chance you're going to get hit there, you're going to get banged there and it's going to be sore. It's managing the pain, and in Friday's practice it swelled a little bit. So I was pleased with his playing time, and he gave us some juice a little bit, as did Aaron and Pierre. I though we had good balance, a good mix."

Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game
 

I actually didn't think that the running game ever got on track yesterday. Stecker had some good runs, but it was really the Drew Brees show. I did however like the fact that we were running up the middle more.

Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game
 

Again just because 1 back didn't break 100 yards doesn't mean the running game wasn't effective. We did rush for over 100 yards as a team.

Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game
 

Pierre continues to impress me. There was one play in particular, about 2/3 of the way through the game. He hit the wall, and I expected him to go down. He didn't. Then, as he struggled to the next set of tacklers, I expected the ball to get stripped. But he wouldn't allow it.

I tell you, I really like this kid.

Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game
 

We didn't get many yards or have a good average, but our running game was effective.

Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game
 

I do agree that the running game was better. I just hope they give PT more playing time so he knows where his blockers are. If you don't play it's hard to know what you're supposed to do or where your holes are.

Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game
 

See my post in the "Wounded And Confused" thread. I posted our running log of the entire game.

The YPC average was brought down at the end of the game because we were running out the clock. When we ran our regular offense, we were ripping up the Panthers' defense with runs.

Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game
 

Is this when he was being held up by 4-Panthers without any help and STILL remained on his feet fighting for whatever he could get?

The Panthers had a hard time tackling him. Many of his runs were blown dead by forward progress because Pierre just wouldn't go down.

Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game
 

I was just happy to see the ball getting passed around. I kept telling (my poor) DH, "See what happens when you go to someone other than Bush or Colston?!".

DH and I are fans of Stecker, have been ever since the tail end of last season.

And I was definitely wow'ed by PT's ability to stay on his feet whilst dragging defenders with him. How big is he, anyway?!

(Only 5'11", 210 lbs!!)

Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game
 

What I liked from PT was the way he stepped up and stood up a blitzing LB in the first half. A thing of beauty. That play alone should get him on the field more next week I hope. TUFF KID.

Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game
 

Yeah, I think so. He reminded me of Deuce a little bit the way he stayed on his feet.

Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game
 

I don't however like the runblocking of our O-line. We might have the best group in the leauge when it comes to passblocking but the runblocking looks slow and uninspired. A lot of times the hole is not there when it is supposed to. Stecker or Thomas will get tackled after 1 yard and people gonna say oh well. Bush gonna try to break it ouside or make a move losing 1 and then having people say he's not agood runningback int the NFL.

Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game
 

Now, does that say a lot. I agree. We block with the best of them in pass blocking and can't block anyone in running. THAT I can't understand. Maybe some of you guys that know so much about the offensive line play can explain it to an old linebacker.:phat:

Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game
 

LB? Where'd you play JoeSam? 4/3 or 3/4? ILB, MLB, or OL? I heard you mention you did some time at center too. Curious...

I haven't played since jr high, what, 500 years ago? Had to get out because all the rest of the guys just started getting WAY too big. But I was a G and DT when I played - and I absolutely loved it. We hardly ever passed the ball, so I got to smash guys on both sides of the line most of the time. I loved it. Miss those days....

Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game
 

Back in my day we only knew about the 4-3. They stuck my butt right in the middle. I was slow but my lateral movement was pretty good. That plus the fact I'd stick my nose anywhere. I wasn't afraid of anything. Cost the hell out of me too. Now I fight with 4 knee operations, 4 bad discs in my neck and 5 bad ones in my lower back. I get cortazone shots in my discs at least once a month just so I can move. But hey, if I could, I'd do it again. I love the game that much. Doctors tell me the bone spurs in my shoulders look like the alps, lol. OH well, that's why I get all this big money and retired at the ripe old age of 55. By the way the big money was a joke.
As for the center part, God never,never,never again. that's on tough position to play. I told my coachs that if they made me play center any longer than the starting center was out, i'd never play another down of football. Man, that's a bad position, you can't really describe it unless you've played it, it's just tough.I salute anybody that can play that position for any length of time.

Back then, I was 6' 2" and weighed 225. And as I said,slow as molassas in winter.

Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game
 

Jesus Joe, 4 knee operations? 255lb?! Was that high school or college? I'm glad I got out of football when I did. The rest of you guys just got too damn big.

I had a friend of mine that wanted to try out for RB at LSU, guy's name was Orlando. I used to bartend with him at Fat Harrys. Big guy. But the thing is, the manager at Fat Harrys played a little in college. He kept warning Orlando - don't do it man, don't do it, you'll regret it. I wonder if he survived - even the tryout.

Still, if I could have the days back when I played, I'd be all over it. It was that much fun.

Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game
 

Ahhh the glory days. My HS team had 17 players my senior year. I was the biggest lineman at 6'2", 225lbs. and never left the field. Needless to say we got our butt kicked on a regular basis. I was an OT and NG until I cracked the starting center's vertibrae on a wierd play. I had to take his spot. We ran a 4 and 5-wide spread type offense out of the shotgun. I'm still the best shotgun snapper in Mississippi 1-A HS football history ;)

Joe, you were asking why these guys can pass block so well and run block so poorly. I've noticed two problems.

1. Bush is awful about hitting the hole and using blockers. I remember one play very distinctly. They ran a draw and the OL was manned up 5 on 5 with the Panters and it was a gimme 5 yd gain, but Bush bounced it for a 2 yd gain. That play was indicative of Bush's problems at RB. PT and Stecker both do it well. They use their burst at the hole and Reggie uses it latterally to try to beat the D to the corner.

2. The blocking schemes seem lacking to me. I don't have the luxury of knowing how the play was drawn up, but quite often there will be a hole at the line and a LB will be there to make a play. It's either because there is not a lead blocker or the OL isn't picking up the playside LB.

Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game
 

Would that be the center's failure, i.e. failure to call a blocking scheme that takes care of that LB? Or would that be the fault of the play designer and not the center's fault?

You guys are a veritable wealth of football information.

Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game
 

No idea, the one time I tried to call out a blitz pickup they flagged me for a false start. :D

Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game
 

Me either. But it might play into the Faine/Goodwin arguments that have been going on. On second thought, nevermind. Forget I asked. ;)

Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game
 

I understand and agree with both points. I wonder what it's going to take fro Reggie to run to the hole. At times I think even I could plug the hole by the time he decides where he's going. I'm not a big Stecker fan but he and Pierre both seem to go to the hole much sooner. If they ever get used to using Karney for a blocker they could be dangerous. Thomas ans Stecker both seem to do much better with him in the backfield with them. For some reason Payton likes to pull him from the game so much. I just don't understand that. i know as aformer MLB it's much harder to shed that kind of blocker and get to the ball carrier. But hey, i'm not the coach.

Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game
 

It appears to me that Reggie is sometimes too fast to the hole. That the hole actually opens up after he has past it. In My opinion I think he needs to maybe get one step deeper in the backfield to allow time for the hole to open when he hits the line. The holes open and close so fast in the NFL is just like marriage after a couple of years. But seriously it seems to me that he gets to the line so fast either he doesn't see the hole or he can't adjust to hitting it as we see it on TV or on the field. That's what I love about my seats in the endzone, I see the holes open up and also the open TE's across the middle of the field that we don't always throw to. Anyway that's my opinion.

Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game
 

That could very well be true. He just needs to be patient and hit the hole when it's there. All good running back show patience. Maybe that's what he needs.

Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game
 

I agree about Reggie. He is not the first back that had to learn to slow down.

The TE over the middle has been open all year. It is not glamorous but it will keep the chains moving. The LB and Safety will have to step up to stop it or we run it all day long. When they step up to stop it then you go over the top up the seem on them with a WR. That forces the other safety to hang in the middle of the field and opens up the sideline routes.
By the time you get all the WR and TE involved the secondary will be running around in circles. We just do not seem patient enough for this. You are definitely right

Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game
 

Maybe they should make Reggie lineup a bit deeper in the backfield. Unfortunately, that'll probably give the defense the clue that he's running. As, if Reggie were to be part of a passing play, they'd want him as close to the line of scrimmage as possible.

I think a lot of the blocking has to do with scheme and the fact that our offense has been insanely predictable all season long. If you look at the Carolina game, we were gashing them for some pretty big yards in the running game. We had quite a few 7 and 9-yard gains. We hardly ever got anything lower than 4-yards for most of the game. The only time our running game started to slow down was when it was the end of the game and they knew we were going to run the ball to attempt to run out the clock.

I think, if Sean Payton starts to put together gameplans that aren't as predictable and don't key-off the defense to what the offense is doing as soon as they line up, you'll see the blocking get much better.