Bucs/Jets
 

Did anyone get to see the game (pirate satellite, whatever)? I heard the Bucs whipped 'em pretty good, but I'm curious to see how the first teams on both sides looked. Particularly the Bucs, of course.

Bucs/Jets
 

I saw it on that Pirate network called ESPN2 about 4:00 this morning. :)

The Jets #1 offensive squad looked good. They had a 10 play drive for a TD. But the Bucs #1 D was a little lackluster at first. Not bad by any means, but you got the feeling that they could have stopped the Jets with just a *little* more effort.

Then the Bucs #1 offense came on and moved the ball well. A questionable call in the endzone ruled a nice TD catch uncontrolled and the bucs had to settle for a FG.

Then the #2\'s came out and and the Jet\'s bench got annihilated.

From the one series the bucs #1 Off and Def had, even though not spectacular, being the pre-season it looked by week one the Defense will be bad ass as usual and the offense improved.

In short, bad news. And they are gonna be gunning for us as hard as we will be gunning for Atlanta. In short, again, bad news.

Bucs/Jets
 

Bad news? Your basing a lot off of a preseason game. I think the Bucs were gunning for us as much as their guns would allow last year, after we beat them the first time !!!!!

The bad news for the Bucs this year is , of the two teams, the Saints probably improved the most. Not to take anything away for the Bucs, but they they did very little in the offseason to improve on offense. Thomas Jones did OK, but let\'s face it, for a 7th overall pick, he has been a bust. While he has a chance to turn his career around, it is not likely. The Bucs signed Jones becase with the legal problems of Pittman, Jones is all that was left.

If the Bucs did improve on offense, the improvements by the Saints defense should offset them easily.

Now that I think about it, it is bad news. For the Bucs.





[Edited on 3/8/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

[Edited on 3/8/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

Bucs/Jets
 

I kinda thought the Bucs\' first string D looked pretty average at best. The Jets (with Wayne Chrebet and Curtis Conway as wideouts and no Curtis Martin) drove to the endzone and scored.

Nice first quarter if you ask me.

Bucs/Jets
 

Thanx for the recaps.

Got it on the re-air. Simms looked pretty good, I think he\'is going to be on helluva football player. Jets O looked good on first string. Agreed, Tampa\'s D was a little lackluster on first string - but they still looked strong enough to do it again. Their offense is better than I hoped it would be.

This team is going to be hell this year. They\'ll definitely have a chip on their should for us after the sweep last season. I still think we have the skill and talent necessary to beat them, though - if the chips fall our way. If the refs don\'t decide the game. If we\'re less unlucky than they are.

This is going to be one helluva good season.

Bucs/Jets
 

I\'ll tell you this - I think the Bucs are an all or nothing team this year. My concern has been for some time that their offense will begin to play consistently like it did at the end of the season last year. This 1st game confirmed for me that it probably will. Think about how much our offense carried our defense last season. That\'s almost how much the Bucs defense carried its offense. Difference being their offense helped a little.

Well, this year their offense could be good - not just not bad, but good. I think with Gruden and the players they\'ve got it is realistic to think that they can put up 20 or 25 points a game. If they do that, they will repeat as SB champs. That defense will only get better if the offense gives them the ability to rest once in a while. The offense will only get better if it gets better play out of the D that is already prone to scoring points and giving the O the ball in great field position. And obviously, it\'s a cycle.

I know everyone on this board has pride in our team and I know that we beat up on the Bucs last year, but you\'ve got to realize that this is a team that has a very real shot at being back in the big dance come January.

Bucs/Jets
 

With all the questions that the Bucs have on offense, for members here to say that the Bucs offense proved something in 1 preseason game, would be like me saying that the Saints defense proved itself in the Black and Gold scrimmage.

Bucs/Jets
 

They proved something last season with a SuperBowl ring. Until someone beats them in regular season, they don\'t have a damn thing to prove.

I\'d hoped they would stink in that preseason game. They didn\'t. They looked better than our O did the last three games, that\'s for sure.

Bucs/Jets
 

Their only big question mark is at running back. And lets face it, at the beginning of the season theor offense sucked. And it didn\'t matter. Even with the questions they have on offense they are still at least as good as they were at the beginning of last season.

And as I said, their #1 Defense didn\'t look like they were putting out 100%. And in a pe-season game, why would they bother to? Especially one where the goal was to foster more interest in the NFL in a foreign country.

And I DON\'T CARE if we beat them twice last year. Even if we beat them twice this year it\'s still bad news if they are looking good. Beating them twice didn\'t get us a division title last season. They are gonna pound Atlanta and Carolina. And looking at their schedule they have alot of other teams they are gonna pound.

They have a bigger edge on Houston, because Houston is still a crappy team overall and we like to lose to crappy teams. They have a bigger edge on Dallas, who I think we would take hands down... If we did\'t play them in December atleast.

Bucs/Jets
 

The Bucs not only have a huge question mark at the running back position, but the offensive line remains highly suspect as well.

I think even the most optimisitc Bucs fan would not say that because the Bucs won it all last year that they have nothing to prove this year, but everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how much of a reach it might be.

As far as the Bucs pounding the Falcons and Panthers this year, I guess that could happen, but that same statement was made last year, about the Bucs pounding the Saints.

I hope if the Saints defense dominates in the first preseason game that the same members will say that the defense has proved itself.

Bucs/Jets
 

Are you responding to Memnoch? Or was that directed at me?

I\'m not infering that Tampa\'s O has proven itself. In fact, I\'m not talking about proof at all. Rather, I simply stated that until they\'re beaten in a regular season game, they have nothing to prove. They\'re the champs.

Back to my original point, I stated that the first string didn\'t stink, though I\'d hoped they would. That\'s all.

So... If that was directed at me, the line \"I hope if the Saints defense dominates in the first preseason game that the same members will say that the defense has proved itself\" may be inappropriate.

Bucs/Jets
 

Actually I was responding to parts of both of your posts. The fact is everytime the Bucs step on the field they have something to prove and can not rely on last year. You also said their offense looked better than our offense last year. Can you really form an opinion on a preseason game?

Bucs/Jets
 

I can, based on first string performance.

Do me a favor - GET OFF MY FRIGGIN\' CASE. I\'m SICK of your 10,000+ posts a day, often bending points, missing points, putting words. As far as I\'m concerned, the quality of this board took a serious nosedive when you got a login.

Bucs/Jets
 

Hey buddy I bent nothing. You just post bull**** and can\'t back it up. Don\'t blame me.

Bucs/Jets
 

Do me a favor - find another board. I think many people here are tired of your inane remarks.

Bucs/Jets
 

This board is about telling it the way you see it. Your opinions are just that, opinions. You seem to think your football knowledge is supreme and get offended when someone disagrees. How old are you 12?

Bucs/Jets
 

I am neither opinionated nor immature. I\'ll be the first to admit that I am an expert of nothing. I am, however, annoyed with your repsonses to statements I have made. Or rather, not made.....

\"I hope if the Saints defense dominates in the first preseason game that the same members will say that the defense has proved itself\" - same member? Saying what, exactly? Did I say Tampa had proven anything? I didn\'t, did I?

-- that\'s what I\'m annoyed with. That, the multidudinous overpowering plethora of posts you pound the board with daily, and most particulary your thinly veiled insults, especially when they are inappropriate to the topic of discussion.

I don\'t see WhoDat doing this. I don\'t see JoeSam. Or B&B. Or Pak. Or Saintfan. Or Rusta. Or Tweeky. Or Smitty. Or even Gator. I just see you doing this.

So, I\'ll stop my rant now, and simply ask that you stop picking apart my opinion. Or at least, if you\'re going to pick it apart anyway, pick apart something I -said-, rather than something I didn\'t say.

Bucs/Jets
 

In the first place I was not talking to you when I said saying the offense proved itself is like saying the saints defense proved itself in the B&G scrimmage. I was talking about the statement WhoDat made. So, before you go off on one of your rants, get ya facts straight.

Secondly I will say what I want to say, when I want to say it.

Bucs/Jets
 

Fair enough.

Bucs/Jets
 

Some of you guys must live in another area where wrestling or baseball would take precedence over nfl football. The game was shown live on ESPN. Neither team looked overly impressive. It looked to be what it was, the first pre-season game of the year.

Bucs/Jets
 

Maybe I watched a different game than other people but here\'s how the great Bucs D did the only series they were in there, but again this means nothing, just like what the Bucs offense did means nothing.



[Edited on 4/8/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

Bucs/Jets
 

Billy, for once it wasn\'t me.........haha...........although i feel not alone. :D No one can base anything off of a scrimmage game. The Jets added Conway and that is a plus for them. We will have to see how Martin is as far as his health. If he is healthy,they should have a nice offense. The Bucs have lost nothing at defense. The Bucs running back situation is a huge question mark. It is a little in the court systems hands. Jones looked good,I thought. I could care less where he was drafted. The fact is based on what I saw from that scrimmage. He looked good in that scrimmage. Bucs will not have a powerhouse offense, however if they can produce 20-30 points they should repeat.

Billy, please let know me know when you write your version of How to Win Friends and Influence People. I would love a signed copy. hehe

Bucs/Jets
 

Like I said, everyone is entitled to their opinion. You think Jones looked good and that\'s your opinion. Keep in mind that this was a preseason game and Jones has had many chances in real games and flopped.


I don\'t give any team anything. They have to prove it to me first. Just like if the Saints defense can hold teams to under 20pts. they should be the favorite to win the superbowl. They have to prove it first.

Send me a money order for $29.95

Bucs/Jets
 

My bottom line is this - the Bucs offense is markedly better right now then it was at the beginning of the season last year. It is better now then it was either time we played them. They showed me that the couple of late season and playoff games where their offense put up 30+ points was NOT a fluke.

Now Billy, you can nit-pik words and over analyze the meaning of the word prove - but let\'s make it simple. Name any amount of money you want and I\'ll bet you that much that the Tampa offense will be better this year than it was last year. Get the point now? Want put your money where your mouth is? B/c my opinion is pretty firm... or couldn\'t you tell?

People on this board need to stop reading into every word and start taking posts for their spirit - or general meaning. My point is that their offense has gotten better, and while they don\'t have sexy names like Brooks, McAllister, Horn, or Stallworth - but Gruden has proved that he can make Johnsons, Pittmans, McCardells, and Alstots into a damn good group. They will be in the top 10-15 spots offensively this year.

Bucs/Jets
 

I\'ll get Billy going again.....Gruden has a system.

Bucs/Jets
 

I agree WhoDat with the fact that the Bucs offense has gotten better. They are far from flashy, but flashy is only a facade. The best example I can think of is the Ravens with Dilfer at the wheel. The Bucs are solid. As in the Ravens case, the Defense is often times the offense.

Bucs/Jets
 

Two words - Pre-season. The Bucs starters were in for two series and without Brooks. The Jets kept thier starters in longer but the depth on the Bucs defense took care of them.

All in all a good practice. Thomas Jones looked good, Tim Wansley made a bid for a CB spot with a QB strip & recovery & TD return. Charles Lee dropped some TD passes (2) and Simms looked awsom for a rookie in his first time under Grudens scheme. He\'s a future starter at QB if he learns this quickly.

Bucs/Jets
 

Some people amaze me. First of all I didn\'t mix any words or nit-pik and I\'ll say it again. Saying the Bucs offense has improved based off of a preseason game is rediculous in my opinion. Now if you want to say that the Bucs offense improved from the begining of last year, then I agree, but to say that the preseason game confimed anything is off base.

The Bucs offense might score 45 points per game this year, but if you can tell that from their first preseason game, your able to see something that I can\'t.



It\'s a big difference to say that the Bucs offense improved from the beginging of last year, than to say the offense showed you something in the preseason game.

Now if that\'s nit-picking, then so be it. I call it like I see it.

Bucs/Jets
 

beginging-

be v. First and third person singular past indicative was, (wz, wz; wz when unstressed)second person singular and plural and first and third person plural past indicative were, (wûr)past subjunctive were,past participle been, (bn)present participle be·ing, (bng)first person singular present indicative am, (m)second person singular and plural and first and third person plural present indicative are, (är)third person singular present indicative is, (z)present subjunctive be

ginging n. (Mining) The lining of a mine shaft with stones or bricks to prevent caving.

beginning n.
1. The act or process of bringing or being brought into being; a start.
2. The time when something begins or is begun: the beginning of the war.
3. The place where something begins or is begun: at the beginning of the road.
4. A source; an origin: What was the beginning of the dispute?
5. The first part: The front matter is at the beginning of the book.
6. An early or rudimentary phase. Often used in the plural: the beginnings of human life on this planet


[Edited on 4/8/2003 by BlackandBlue]

Bucs/Jets
 

Okay. That is fine. No matter what happens in the preseason, it is only the preseason and means nothing until it\'s proven in the regular season. If that is your opinion, that is fine.

But, by that statement, if anyone has any opinion on anything it is wrong by default because it is unproven.

So while we are discussing football, you are just trolling for arguments. It\'s not even possible to agree with you, since agreeing with you means saying it all doesn\'t matter and any speculation is not worth typing out until the unspoken opinions are confirmed in September. That does not make for interesting forums.

So, since we are all wrong for having an opinion, we weall all just have to accept our wrongness and chat on anyway. Since you don\'t want to participate in the speculation, or even see the speculation, why don\'t you just curl up with a newspaper and a big frosty glass of shut-the-hell-up until the season opener.

Then you can come back and tell us all about how you were right about all the things that you didn\'t say.

Bucs/Jets
 

Memnoch_TP,

I\'m sure you\'ve been b!tched slapped enough in your life, so I don\'t want to add insult to injury. I could care less if I\'m right or wrong, but when someone tells me if the Bucs offense scores 25 to 30 points on offense per game, that they should repeat, that\'s kinda stateing the obvious. Much like all of your posts.

I agree and disagree with several posts on this board. If everyone had the same view on everything, this would be pretty boring. Much like all of your posts.

You want to personally attack me and that\'s fine. I\'m a big boy and I can handle it. But this is a waring to you that next time.............I take the gloves off and judging by your fragile ego, I don\'t think you can handle it.










[Edited on 4/8/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

Bucs/Jets
 

Memnoch, I feel I did not talk to you on a level you are accustomed to, so being the gentleman that I am, I will try to get on your superior level.




Good day,

I must say that I am impressed with your ability to limit your words and prevent run-on sentences. My counting might be off but you have been able to string together at least 10 senteneces, without using run-ons. And, frankly, I do thank you for the fact the words you did use as they were so simple in themselves and arranged in such an uncomplicated way that even if I had no more than a third grade reading level, I still could have understood.

And while we\'re on the subject of sentences, I merely want to say that they were not resonable in their content. And while you disagree, as two people are prone to doing, I can also understand that. I suppose it was the message that threw me from the horse of civility on which I thought we both rode.

And good sir - I say sir though I am not sure whether you are a man or woman as you failed to include your own name but I still wish to regard you in some manner - I must say that I disagree with your own disagreement. I feel that the longer we carry on this conversation, the more I will lose respect for you.

Now, I must tell you, I object profusely to being called-out in this manner and should you continue down this road I may challenge you to a duel. My pistols are well oiled sir, so beware! I will forgive your trespass upon me however because I believe you misunderstand the situation. I do not have a \"job\" that allows me to criticize other people. Rather, this is something I enjoy doing in my spare time. I am not jealous of people for successes or in your case lack of, but I\'m sure you consider yourself successful in your own way and I would be the last one to cry-out should should you be exposed for what you really are. I see no reason why I will regret this stance later.

Now, good sir, you have insulted me enough and I must be on my merry way as I must be well rested for our next conversation. Should you wish to continue this dialogue, I would be most interested to hear your side but I cannot promise what my reaction will be so choose your words again with great care.

- Billy



[Edited on 4/8/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

Bucs/Jets
 

Give it a rest