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QBREES9 01-13-2008 04:27 PM
McFadden vs Thomas
 
SportingNews.com - NFL Football Teams, Scores, Schedules, Standings, Playoffs, Super Bowl

When the Saints played at Chicago in Week 17, Pierre Thomas of New Orleans made his first NFL start. Thomas was an undrafted rookie out of Illinois, but you couldn't tell by watching him. He showed nifty moves, great vision and balance, power up the middle, soft hands and the ability to break tackles. He ran for 105 yards on 20 carries and caught 12 passes for another 121 yards. Reggie Bush has never had an NFL game like that.

Fact is, I'd take Thomas over McFadden, straight up. In a heartbeat.

MatthewT 01-13-2008 07:33 PM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
Obviously, finding Thomas eliminates the need to draft a RB high in the draft. McFadden could possibly fall to the Saints, if he does, I would have to pass, although that would be a very tough decision...

hagan714 01-13-2008 08:10 PM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
No way he drops thats far

MatthewT 01-13-2008 08:46 PM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
Hagan- If you would have asked me a few weeks ago I would have said he is a lock for the top 5. With some of the recent stories concerning him, it would not surprise me to see him fall in the draft, even though it looks like he is not going to be charged with anything. Even if it's a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, it's not a good sign for a draft prospect like himself to be hanging in bars. (Even so called harmless piano bars... LOL)

dasaints26 01-14-2008 09:44 AM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
How about P Thomas' 1st start and he does something that hasnt every been done by a Saints rb ever. At least 100 running and 100 receiving yards in one game. Hopefully they will find a way to get him in the game before week 17 next year I think he has alot to prove. The coaching staff must have been really impressed to keep him and release a draft pick that they moved up to get.

WhoDat205 01-14-2008 10:06 AM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewT (Post 151983)
Hagan- If you would have asked me a few weeks ago I would have said he is a lock for the top 5. With some of the recent stories concerning him, it would not surprise me to see him fall in the draft, even though it looks like he is not going to be charged with anything. Even if it's a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, it's not a good sign for a draft prospect like himself to be hanging in bars. (Even so called harmless piano bars... LOL)
This was one negative article about D-Mac. There are 100 positive ones for every 1 negative. McShay said that the NFL was "not ready for D-Mac" on Sunday morning.

If he falls to 10, then you gotta take him, even if it's just for trade purposes. That's not going to happen, though.

MatthewT 01-14-2008 08:51 PM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
Here is a story that was posted on profootballtalk:

BUYER BEWARE ON McFADDEN?

So now it's official. After his father denied reports that Arkansas running back Darren McFadden will enter the NFL draft, McFadden announced on Monday that he's headed for the next level.

Though last week's non-arrest arrest of McFadden hasn't seemed to damage his standing as a top-tier draft pick, it's not the first incident of this nature involving the two-time Heisman runner-up.

In 2006, before McFadden emerged as a figure of national prominence in college football, McFadden was involved in a fight outside of another bar (or, possibly, the same one).

The situation arose on a Saturday at 4:20 a.m. Strike one. McFaddden reportedly was fighting with someone he didn't know in a parking lot, while a crowd watched. Strike two. McFadden needed surgery for a dislocated toe because McFadden "was kicking and kicking at [the other guy] and his shoe came off and his foot hit the pavement."

And . . . strike . . . three.

Sorry, Darren. Too much money gets invested in players taken at the top of round one. And the Commish no longer messes around with guys who can't conform to the basic requirements of society.

We're not saying he should be taken off of the board. But the stakes are too high for him to be taken in the top three, possibly too high for him to be selected in the top ten.

TheDeuce 01-15-2008 07:51 AM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by QBREES9 (Post 151970)
SportingNews.com - NFL Football Teams, Scores, Schedules, Standings, Playoffs, Super Bowl

When the Saints played at Chicago in Week 17, Pierre Thomas of New Orleans made his first NFL start. Thomas was an undrafted rookie out of Illinois, but you couldn't tell by watching him. He showed nifty moves, great vision and balance, power up the middle, soft hands and the ability to break tackles. He ran for 105 yards on 20 carries and caught 12 passes for another 121 yards. Reggie Bush has never had an NFL game like that.

Fact is, I'd take Thomas over McFadden, straight up. In a heartbeat.
Look, I know Pierre is a fan favorite around here, but look at what you just said. You just said that you'd take a guy who has a limited ceiling and a 3rd or 4th string running back when everybody is healthy over a guy who finished second in the Heisman voting this past season. Sure, McFadden has had some legal issues over the past month, but that doesn't change the fact that he's probably the best all-around player in the country. Hell, he practically invented an entirely new offense.

Pierre can be a good back, but he will never be a great back. It's not even guaranteed that he'll make the squad next season. You're basing your argument on one game. Look at the rest of the season, the guy wasn't all that spectacular.

McFadden on the other hand has a lot of things that will prevent Pierre Thomas from ever being a great back. World-class speed, he's very very strong for a running back, good vision, and he's versatile (ie he can throw and catch the ball as well). McFadden is a game-changer, he can come in and on one play take it 80 yards for a score. If you don't believe me ask LSU, because he torched them on long runs numerous times. I just can't see Pierre ever doing that, his longest run this season was 17 yards.

I'm not really sold on Pierre Thomas being the future of the running back position. In fact, if Deuce is healthy come training camp, I'd take Deuce in a heartbeat over Pierre Thomas. But more to the point, if I had the chance between Pierre and McFadden, it would be silly not to take McFadden.

bobad 01-15-2008 09:38 AM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDeuce (Post 152064)
Hell, he practically invented an entirely new offense.

I don't care if he invented the Internet. We don't need any high dollar RB's, which seldom fulfill their expectations.

We need to spend the big bucks on the big hogs up front, better LB's, and DB's. All you have to do is look at the Patriots, or any team that's a perennial winner. With NE's O-line and D-Lines, any RB can look great.

Maybe McFadden will prove to be a better RB than Pierre, but that doesn't mean he's better for the Saints.

Boogro 01-15-2008 10:09 AM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
With the way we run the ball, we need all the help we can get. Brees' arm is ready to fall off and you are not going to win many games throwing forty times per.

SaintFanInATLHELL 01-15-2008 10:49 AM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDeuce (Post 152064)
.... But more to the point, if I had the chance between Pierre and McFadden, it would be silly not to take McFadden.
That may be a good point in isolation. But within the context of where this team is now, I certainly hope that this is simply idle speculation.

The Saints, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and probably 4th pick all need to be players that can contribute to the defense.

If all of our back are healthy, then Pierre is probably the 3rd back in the rotation. So this case means that the Saints had better not be looking to add any more backs to the rotation.

SFIAH

iceshack149 01-15-2008 11:12 AM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
:no:
Same topic, different player. Where's the talk of defensive players? Forget McFadden. If he is there at 10, my hope is that the Saints trade out and pick up more defensive players.

SapperSaint 01-15-2008 01:09 PM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
I am against going with an offensive player for the first three rounds. We need STUDS and I mean STUD defensive players. LB's, Dline-man, CB's and FS's.

Would I be sick if we didn't pick up D-mac...sure I would. But the needs of the team out wieght the need for another RB (at least for now).

TheDeuce 01-15-2008 01:37 PM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 152068)
That may be a good point in isolation. But within the context of where this team is now, I certainly hope that this is simply idle speculation.

The Saints, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and probably 4th pick all need to be players that can contribute to the defense.

If all of our back are healthy, then Pierre is probably the 3rd back in the rotation. So this case means that the Saints had better not be looking to add any more backs to the rotation.

SFIAH
No no no no I wasn't saying that I want the Saints to draft McFadden. I was simply arguing strongly against the argument that QBREES9 made: taking Pierre Thomas over Darren McFadden. That just seems ludicrous to me. Not factoring in salary and all that stuff, McFadden has Pro Bowl potential, Thomas doesn't.

iceshack149 01-15-2008 02:25 PM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
Pierre Thomas started one game this season and his stats against the Bears were pretty remarkable. 105 rush yards on 20 carries and 121 receiving yards on 12 catches with a touchdown. Granted, there is only one game to go by but in that one game Pierre Thomas showed me pro bowl potential.

SapperSaint 01-15-2008 02:46 PM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
PT will be a good RB. He has shown me more in that one game than Reggie has in two years. I am giving Reggie one more year before I call him the worlds biggest draft bust.

mvtrucking 01-15-2008 06:08 PM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDeuce (Post 152064)
Look, I know Pierre is a fan favorite around here, but look at what you just said. You just said that you'd take a guy who has a limited ceiling and a 3rd or 4th string running back when everybody is healthy over a guy who finished second in the Heisman voting this past season. Sure, McFadden has had some legal issues over the past month, but that doesn't change the fact that he's probably the best all-around player in the country. Hell, he practically invented an entirely new offense.

Pierre can be a good back, but he will never be a great back. It's not even guaranteed that he'll make the squad next season. You're basing your argument on one game. Look at the rest of the season, the guy wasn't all that spectacular.

McFadden on the other hand has a lot of things that will prevent Pierre Thomas from ever being a great back. World-class speed, he's very very strong for a running back, good vision, and he's versatile (ie he can throw and catch the ball as well). McFadden is a game-changer, he can come in and on one play take it 80 yards for a score. If you don't believe me ask LSU, because he torched them on long runs numerous times. I just can't see Pierre ever doing that, his longest run this season was 17 yards.

I'm not really sold on Pierre Thomas being the future of the running back position. In fact, if Deuce is healthy come training camp, I'd take Deuce in a heartbeat over Pierre Thomas. But more to the point, if I had the chance between Pierre and McFadden, it would be silly not to take McFadden.
You may be right concerning PT BUT, its a fact that everytime this kid has had the chance to play be it preseason, special teams or his first start, he is a PLAYMAKER.(Look at his PS games, touchdown on ST, etc) I really believe that this kid is special. Diamonds have been found in the rough before..

TheDeuce 01-15-2008 07:43 PM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvtrucking (Post 152097)
You may be right concerning PT BUT, its a fact that everytime this kid has had the chance to play be it preseason, special teams or his first start, he is a PLAYMAKER.(Look at his PS games, touchdown on ST, etc) I really believe that this kid is special. Diamonds have been found in the rough before..
Please don't talk to me about how he's a playmaker because of what he did in the preseason. Preseason performances have absolutely no bearing on whether or not a player is going to be any good. You can point to the final game of the season and then you can start to say that he's going to be a good player, but please don't talk to me about the preseason.

I'll admit that Pierre had a great game against Chicago, in fact, he was the first player in Saints history to ever get 100 yds rushing and 100 yds receiving in the same game. BUT, let's not jump to conclusions because of one game. He had one good game, but if you look at the game where he got the most carries (besides the Chicago game), he rushed for a 2.7 yard average on 12 carries. I'm not saying he's not a good player, I'm just saying that maybe we should hold out on crowning him the best running back we have on the team, or better than the best running back in the draft, until we've seen him play a little more.

D24pick 01-15-2008 08:20 PM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDeuce (Post 152064)
Look, I know Pierre is a fan favorite around here, but look at what you just said. You just said that you'd take a guy who has a limited ceiling and a 3rd or 4th string running back when everybody is healthy over a guy who finished second in the Heisman voting this past season. Sure, McFadden has had some legal issues over the past month, but that doesn't change the fact that he's probably the best all-around player in the country. Hell, he practically invented an entirely new offense.

Pierre can be a good back, but he will never be a great back. It's not even guaranteed that he'll make the squad next season. You're basing your argument on one game. Look at the rest of the season, the guy wasn't all that spectacular.

McFadden on the other hand has a lot of things that will prevent Pierre Thomas from ever being a great back. World-class speed, he's very very strong for a running back, good vision, and he's versatile (ie he can throw and catch the ball as well). McFadden is a game-changer, he can come in and on one play take it 80 yards for a score. If you don't believe me ask LSU, because he torched them on long runs numerous times. I just can't see Pierre ever doing that, his longest run this season was 17 yards.

I'm not really sold on Pierre Thomas being the future of the running back position. In fact, if Deuce is healthy come training camp, I'd take Deuce in a heartbeat over Pierre Thomas. But more to the point, if I had the chance between Pierre and McFadden, it would be silly not to take McFadden.
Yes. One game.

And how many has McFadden played in the NFL exactly? That's right. None.
So lets drop the iron and go by what we know. And another thing is, Pierre was a super back in Illonois, just hugely overlooked if one didn't know. He has just as many qualities of a great back as McFadden, its just that, McFadden has more upside than Thomas

Budsdrinker 01-15-2008 08:36 PM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
Heisman voting doesn't make you an NFL running back. We have a winner of the Heisman trophy and he hasn't figured out the NFL yet. Now I'm not saying McFadden won't be a good RB in the NFL but right now I don't think it is a position we need to look at in the first round.

Gridiron Guru 01-15-2008 08:39 PM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
I think both guys are great. I couldn't understand why Pierre did't get a chance early to prove himself which he more than did his first time to get any significant playing time. Duece was looking very slow even before he hurt his knee, Regie can't play tailback full time with any success, & Aaron Stecker will never be any better than he was this year & that was just being a plugger.
As for Mc Fadden, doesn't anyone pay attention to a players career any more? Mc D. has been a premiere back in thye toughest conference in the country to run in for 3 straight years. It would take anyone a long time to think of the last premiere back to come out of the SEC & fail in the NFL. The man has all the tools to be one of the greatest backs in NFL history. While I understand the shortcomings of the Saints defense & their need to make massive improvements to compete for a Superbowl, they also were in desperate need of a running game to get the defense off the field, control the football & take pressure off Breez so he could be more successful. Should Mc Fadden fall to the Saints, you take him & be very greatful to the football Gods.:phat:

TheDeuce 01-15-2008 09:34 PM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
I'm not sure that you take him, especially with Deuce and Reggie on schedule to be healthy by the start of training camp, but McFadden is definitely a player. He's been a difference maker for years.

hagan714 01-16-2008 05:10 AM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gridiron Guru (Post 152112)
I think both guys are great. I couldn't understand why Pierre did't get a chance early to prove himself which he more than did his first time to get any significant playing time.
Sean was wondering the same thing in Chicago. Well it cost a RB coach his job

SapperSaint 01-16-2008 09:15 AM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hagan714 (Post 152144)
Sean was wondering the same thing in Chicago. Well it cost a RB coach his job
So Sean fired the RB coach? I guess the house cleaning has begun.

Gridiron Guru 01-16-2008 11:58 AM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
No offense Deuce, but it's time to turn the page. A big part of the previous problems for this team isn't that they won't spend money, it's how they spent it in the past, including last year. Overpaying for the worst defensive back in the NFL & paying big bucks for a back whose better days are far behind him are not parts of a recipe for a championship franchise. I am all for taking defense with our first 5 picks, but you get a chance to get Run DMC, you cut the strings to Duece & move on. BTW, am I the only one who noticed how a couple of DBs from LSU lived inside of defender's pockets in the NC game & playoffs. Think Zennon & chevis jackson aren't worth 4th & 5th round picks? LSU defenders may not do zone well, but there are no better at any level at man to man. Just check what Corey Webster did on big mouth in Dallas & Randall Gay didn't do to bad this year in New England either.

SapperSaint 01-16-2008 12:14 PM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
Totally agree with you on the LSU DB's, Guru. I would love to see them picked up.

TheDeuce 01-16-2008 08:02 PM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SapperSaint (Post 152166)
Totally agree with you on the LSU DB's, Guru. I would love to see them picked up.
I would agree with that too, but I doubt Chevis Jackson is still around in the 4th round. I think he's being projected as a 2nd round guy.

And I would agree that maybe Deuce's time is past him, but I disagree that he has been over the hill for the last few seasons. He was a big reason for our success in 2006, and was the MVP of our playoff win against Philadelphia. I know I'm a bit of a Deuce homer, but I still have faith that he's going to come back and be the same guy he was before the knee injury.

dasaints26 01-16-2008 10:02 PM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
Preseason matters if you are trying to get a job on an nfl team and PThomas made the most of the opportunity. He runs the ball with a purpose get positive yards. Sure the numbers dont mean much since he didnt play alot but our longest run of the year was 26 yards PTs longest run of the year was 24 yards then they stopped counting since he was in the endzone. As a team we averaged 3.7 yards per carry and PT averaged 4.8 ypc. I think he will be on the team next year and I hope he plays before week 17.

bobad 01-17-2008 08:56 AM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDeuce (Post 152102)
Please don't talk to me about how he's a playmaker because of what he did in the preseason. Preseason performances have absolutely no bearing on whether or not a player is going to be any good.
I'm talking to you about preseason. If preseason has nothing to do with anything, why do coaching staffs depend on it to build their teams and set depth charts?

Even if you were right, preseason can showcase a player's skill, talent, hands, coordination, balance, and general football smarts. According to you, when a RB drags 4 defensive players down the field in preseason, it doesn't mean he has power. I wish you would tell me what it does mean.

papz 01-17-2008 09:21 AM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDeuce
Please don't talk to me about how he's a playmaker because of what he did in the preseason. Preseason performances have absolutely no bearing on whether or not a player is going to be any good.
Tell that to Matt Schaub, David Garrard, and Matt Hasselbach.

TheDeuce 01-17-2008 12:40 PM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papz (Post 152207)
Tell that to Matt Schaub, David Garrard, and Matt Hasselbach.
Tell that to Carey Davis (highest rushing average per carry in the preseason), Darius Walker (higher average than PT in the preseason), Robert Meachem and the hundreds of other guys who score a touchdown or play well in the preseason and then never see the field during the regular season. Sure it might help a guy make a team, but when you're lining up against an opponent's third string defense, it's not a true indicator of talent.

SapperSaint 01-17-2008 12:50 PM
Re: McFadden vs Thomas
 
No preseason doesn't show much, but...BUT, in the cases of Schaub, Garrard and Hasselbach and now PT, it falls into a case where the coaches do the "V8 head smack" and ask "why in the heck haven't we been starting this kid???"


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