I want your opinions.
 

Realistically I think we can scale down our logical (logical?? saints?? what?) options if we stay at #10. Assuming we dont trade down who would you want? I made a list of guys I think could be available at #10 and ones we're probably looking at. So whos your choice? For me Id have to go with Ellis. If I missed any feel free to add your thoughts.

Aquib Talib
Dan Connor
Sedrick Ellis
Keith Rivers
Ryan Clady
Kenny Phillips
Vernon Gholston
Mike Jenkins

Re: I want your opinions.
 

I'd be okay with any one of those guys. I prefer Ellis first if he's there.

1. Ellis
2. Clady
3. Jenkins
4. Gholston
5. Rivers
5a. Connor
6. Phillips

That's just from your list. However I'd add Talib, Jackson, and Groves on there... I'd also put them right behind Jenkins. I like both Rivers and Connor but I think by selecting them at 10 would be a bit of a reach. However the Bills reached for Whitner a year ago and he turned out to be a fine player.

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I had to go back and add Talib, I left him off by mistake.

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with the jrs sitting out of the draft I say trade down. get some veteran players to help out. I am not sold on any of these guys at ten and the pay they would get at this position in the draft. No one has sold me on anyone of these guys at 10. At 15 yes.

Re: I want your opinions.
 

From your list,
Mike Jenkins...
We NEED a CB... 10, 15, 225, whenever

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5. Rivers
5a. Connor

if i had to choice. It would be between these two.

Rivers would be a double benefit at WLB. Big, fast and he would free Smith up. SLB trapped in a WLB body. For now.

Conner is here because he is flexible. Inside or out he can plat either. So no matter how FA goes he can be plugged in anywhere.

Ok I am torn.

We all know Sean loves safeties so Phillips is not ruled out. But me I would pass on him. To many good CB that project out at FS for me to make this move.

Gholston if you do not want to keep either Smith or Grant around. Grant does have trade value, despite last years play. As does Smith.

Clady if we have no faith in our previous draft choices stepping up. But I am not buying into that one.

Ellis I still have to see the measuring tape on him. He is one of the few I am waiting on the pro and combine results on.

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When I see Rivers, I automatically think of Briggs. But when I think of Briggs, I think of a good linebacker playing in a system that overhypes him.

When I think of Connor, I think of Paul P... a true football player that will be in the lineup everyday for the next ten years. Solid but nothing spectacular... gets the job done without any of the hype or flash. I also think about where he was selected and where we're selecting this year.

Ideally I'd like us to trade down if we don't take a defensive tackle or corner at 10. The gap in talent isn't by much after the first 5 picks in my opinion. I'd like to see us trade down and either acquire more picks, or move up in the second and third rounds.

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I'm not sold on Conner. I think if we go linebacker, it has to be Rivers. No other linebacker in the draft has his combination of size and speed. Hell, whatever we can do to get Simoneau off the field is OK by me. I think we need to look for a CB in free agency, somebody who can step in right away. I don't want to gamble with another young corner.

Realistically I would like a trade down, but this FO is never big on it.

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Are you kidding? One thing I love about Payton's draft philosophy is that he is constantly wheeling and dealing. The only trade up I can think of is the one for Antonio Pittman, otherwise he's always looking for value from his picks. A trade down is entirely possible and preferable considering our needs, but we'll just have to find a suitor to take the spot.

If we stay put, I think Rivers should be the pick, because no corners are worth it at that point. However, the more I read about Phillips the more I feel swayed that he'd be the BPA; safety is not necessarily our most glaring need, but he'd be a hell of a player to fill out the secondary and there will be plenty of good corners all through the draft.

Re: I want your opinions.
 

[QUOTE=NarwhalHunter;152272]Are you kidding? One thing I love about Payton's draft philosophy is that he is constantly wheeling and dealing. QUOTE]

No I'm not kidding. Where did I say anything about not liking his wheeling and dealing? I said that this FO rarely trades down. The one that I can think of is with Usama Young in the third round. Other than that, I can't think of any other time where we've traded down on the first day, much less the first round. We traded up to get Jamaal brown, we traded up to get Sullivan, and we stayed put getting Will Smith, Bush, and Meachem. I would like to see a trade down if we can't get what we need at #10, but the Saints don't typically trade down.

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First things first, I love this board!
Secondly, I'd love to see us get a Top Notch corner for a change and not someone's left overs!

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I think Payton is more inclined to trade down than Haz was. We traded down to get Harper and Evans in the '06 draft (and took Faine and Hollis in those trades). Same with Young and what basically became the Pittman pick.

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Welcome Butch. I'm with you on Deuce.

Give me Bryant Johnson and leave the offense alone.

On defense, I'd like a big time player especially in the secondary. Asante Samuel will demand a lot of money but I'm all for getting him. Especially since McKenzie will be out for most, if not all, of next season. Asomugha would be great also. I'd even be happy if the Saints got Drayton Florence from San Diego.
I'm with Papz on Briggs in that he's pretty good but may be overrated. He may be a bit overrated but I wouldn't be too upset if the Saints picked him up. Suggs would be a great pick up.
Haynesworth played well this year but the dude is a nut. Sure he behaved well this year but once a nut, always a nut. He stomped on Gurodes head not once but twice last year and that makes me skeptical.

I'm cautiously optimistic about this off-season. Sean Payton has said that he realizes that the defense is crap and that he plans to make big changes on that side of the ball. We'll see about that.

Re: I want your opinions.
 

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Bryant Johnson from Arizona? Forget Williams from Detroit, Johnson is better than all the WR's on this team save Colston, and we can get him much more cheaply.

McKenzie will be, or should be out all next year. He tore his ACL in what second to last game? Depending upon they type of surgery available to him he could be back in 6 months. I had an left knee ACL explosion and had surgery on it.

There were two options
1. Harvest tendon from the knee and put it in the ACL's place. You get weak about 3-4 weeks into your rehab as your body notices it is not a ligament and remakes the tendon into a ligament. This version took much longer but was cheaper.

2. Cadaver ligament. This is the option I went with. I did strength training with the busted ligament to keep my leg and knee in shape before the surgery(I was in college and had to wait until spring break to have the surgery). I went in first thing Monday morning for my surgery. I was on the range at the golf course on Friday with my surgeon and physical therapist. Now I was not hitting full shots, and I was wearing a brace. However the surgeon and PT told me It would have taken 8 weeks or more doing the surgery the other way.

I do not know if this is a viable option for athletes or if even available at all any more. My surgeon was the knee and joint surgeon for UNC, Duke, and NC State team sports. He recommended it for me, although as a golfer I doubt I ever put as much stress on it as a pro football player does.

I was running hitting full shots and walking the golf course the next Friday after the first. I was playing basketball and tennis four weeks later. I was physically healed 100% based on scans and doctors evaluation 3 months after the surgery. Now as far as mentally 100% that took another year to fully trust myself on that leg.

Ok now on to the rest, I would love to see us trade down, however it takes two to tango. Just because we want to move down does not mean we can. There are so many CB's in the draft this year that a trade down would be GREAT. Trade down pick up an additional 2 or 3 rounder(depending upon where that pick is located) and draft a DT, LB and CB with our first three picks. I would love to see the guy from the Raiders or Asante, but will the FO pony up the dough considering we will have to pony it up for Colston? We have to pick up and MAN 2 MAN CB (or two)in FA as well, because I just do not see McKenzie making his way onto the field until 7-8 games in and I am scared of a Thomas/Craft duo in the secondary.

Briggs, better than what we have but not worth what he will want in a contract. product of his position in the system which he plays. Haynesworth, if I could have a healthy Haynesworth and the way he played this year, then hell yeah. However, he is either STUPID or INSANE, neither of which would I like to see on this team.

Re: I want your opinions.
 

Because our DTs our old and we get little to no pressure on the QB. Its not gonna matter whos in our secondary, when you give a pro QB time to pick you apart hes gonna do just that.

Re: I want your opinions.
 

Yup... age and lack of pass rush.

Our run defense was good last year but with teams being able to throw on us at will... it didn't give teams a reason to run the ball on us. Think of the Oakland Raiders... their secondary has been pretty good the last two years, but a big part of that is due to the fact teams absolutely maul them running the football.

Now we don't absolutely need to draft a DT with our first pick... DT might not be the BPA at 10. We do however need to draft a young guy to develop.

Re: I want your opinions.
 

I'm well aware DT's don't usually put up big sack numbers. 4 sacks a season for DT's is considered pretty good for that position. What is meant by lack of pass rush is the ability of a defensive tackle to occupy blockers freeing up our defensive ends. I would have thought that would have been quite obvious. If you don't think DT's play an important role in the success of our secondary, you sure you watch and understand football?

But anyways off the top of my head, Kevin Williams and Rod Coleman are two very good pass rushers at DT.

Re: I want your opinions.
 

Exactly. The Saints needs another big athletic body in the middle to suck up double teams to keep the new MLB clean against the run and to generate a pass rush up the middle without having to blitz all the time.


BDPA. I'd be ticked even if the Saints picked a stud OL, much less any other offensive player, with that #10 pick. That pick has to be for an impact defensive starter in an area of need. Think about the fact that Patrick Willis was picked #11 last year. 174 tackles! WOW! Even the DT from Lousiville (Okoyah?) selected at #10 has a force and had 5.5 sacks from the DT position.

The #10 pick has to be an impact defensive player. It cannot just be the BPA.

No time to develop with that #10 pick. We've already had our redshirt first round pick. We need a guy that will be ready to contribute come September.

SFIAH

Re: I want your opinions.
 

Hollis Thomas will be 34 years old, weighs easily over 340 pounds, and will be entering his 13th season.

Brian Young will be 30 years old, weighs right around 300 pounds, entering his 9th season and coming off injury.

Kendrick Clancy will be 30 years old, weighs around 300 pounds, entering his 9th season while having 2 back to back average at best seasons.

So yes, DT is a weakness on the team but once you go back and read everything again, you will notice no one said it being the biggest weakness nor being more or less important than any other defensive position.


You're entitled to your opinion... I'm fine with that.

Unless you're the man upstairs, no one really knows the answer to that. I'm sure of one thing though... Kiper, McShay, and other experts who have done extensive research and watched tons of film on these guys certainly feel as if they're worthy of top picks. Also Balmer is from North Carolina... not NC State.

It certainly wouldn't be crazy if he turns out to be an All Pro DT.

Anyone notice why Dre Bly and Champ Bailey had down years compared to Charles Woodson and Al Harris? I wonder why.

Games are won in the trenches and you heard that it's better to build the secondary first. Right. Who are these successful GM's that said this?

I don't understand why you bring up Sullivan... it doesn't prove anything except draft picks are a crap shoot. For every bust DT, I can easily find a bust LB, CB, S, WR, QB, RB, OL, and DE.

Everyone coming into this league needs developmental time. Hopefully whoever we draft this year, will be more polished and ready to contribute sooner than later. But I certainly understand what you're saying.

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Youth is needed at DT just like every other position on defense. End of story. Now I want the saints to sign FA and draft a DT or two and let them slug it out in training camp. Just make sure they got upside and are young. Thats all I have to say.