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Time is needed to Build a D
Ok we all want defense and we all want another dome patrol but we all want NOW. Well I did some digging and this is what I found for the saints to build that unit.
1980 Dick Nolan: LCB Dave Waymer Notre Dame 6-1, 195, Round: 2 / # 41 QB, WR, P, CB Guido Merkens "Jack of all trades; Master of none." from Houston ( had to put him in LOL) Saints traded RB Chuck Muncie to the San Diego Chargers for their No. 2 pick in 1981, 1981: Bum Phillips: LB Rickey Jackson PIttsburgh 6-2, 243, Round 2 / # 51 DE/DT Frank Warren Auburn 6-4, 285, Rond 3 / # 57 CB Johnnie Poe Missouri, 6-1, 190, Round: 6 / # 144 NT Jim Wilks San Diego St. 6-5, 266, San Diego State Round: 12 / # 305 1982 Bum Phillips: LDE Bruce Clark Penn State 6-3, 273, via CFL Toronto Argonauts, WLAF Barcelona Dragons. Drafted by GB round 1 / #4, they get our #12 pick in the 1984 draft for him. NT Tony Elliott North Texas 6-2, 282, Round: 5 / # 114 K Morten Andersen Michigan State Round 4 / # 86 1983 Bum Phillips: A wash TE John Tice and OC Steve Korte was it. 1984: Bum Phillips: RDE James Geathers Wichita State 6-7, 290, Round 2 / # 42 (still one of my all time favorites) P Brian Hansen Souix Falls Round 9 / # 237 RILB Vaughn Johnson North Carolina State 6-3, 235, round 1 / # 15 supplemental 1984 ( had to wait a couple of years but he did come home.) 1985 Bum Phillips / Wade Phillips SS Brett Maxie texas Southern 6-2, 194 UDFA LB Jack Del Rio USC 6-4, 246, Round 3 / # 68 ( personality clashes LOL) 1986: Jim Mora: ROLB Pat Swilling Georgia Tech 6-3, 245, Round 3 pick 60 LILB Sam Mills Montclair State University via USFL Philadelphia/Baltimore Stars RILB Vaughn Johnson North Carolina State 6-3, 235, via USFL Jacksonville Bulls round 1 / # 15 supplemental 1984 (finally comes home) 1987 Jim Mora: FS Gene Atkins Florida A&M 5-11, 201, Round 7 / # 179 RCB Toi Cook Stanford 5-11, 188, Round: 8 / # 207 1989 Jim Mora: LDE Wayne Martin Arkansas 6-5, 275, Round: 1 / # 19 LCB Robert Massey North Carolina Central 5-11, 200, round 2 / #46 1990 Jim Mora: RDE Renaldo Turnbull West Virgina 6-4, 250, Round 1 / # 14 RET/DB Vince Buck Central State 6-0, 198, Round 2 / # 44 DE Joel Smeenge Western Michigan, 6-6, 262 Round 3 / # 71 ( all time favorite names) New Orleans fielded fierce defenses in 1991 and 1992, led by one of the best linebacker units in the league. In 1992 linebackers Rickey Jackson, Vaughan Johnson, Sam Mills, and Swilling all played in the Pro Bowl, and the Saints led the league in quarterback sacks. Despite its tenacious defense, the team lost in the first round each time it made the playoffs. This is the defensive starters in 1992 Defensive Starters LDE Wayne Martin 27 New Orleans Saints / 1st / 19th pick / 1989 NT Jim Wilks 34 New Orleans Saints / 12th / 305th pick / 1981 RDE Frank Warren 33 New Orleans Saints / 3rd / 57th pick / 1981 LOLB Rickey Jackson 34 New Orleans Saints / 2nd / 51st pick / 1981 LILB Sam Mills 33 RILB Vaughan Johnson 30 New Orleans Saints / 1st / 15th pick / 1984 Supp ROLB Pat Swilling 28 New Orleans Saints / 3rd / 60th pick / 1986 LCB Toi Cook 28 New Orleans Saints / 8th / 207th pick / 1987 LCB Vince Buck 24 New Orleans Saints / 2nd / 44th pick / 1990 RCB Reggie Jones 23 New Orleans Saints / 5th / 126th pick / 1991 SS Brett Maxie 30 FS Gene Atkins 28 New Orleans Saints / 7th / 179th pick / 1987 Special Teams Starters K Morten Andersen 32 New Orleans Saints / 4th / 86th pick / 1982 P Tommy Barnhardt 29 Tampa Bay Buccaneers / 9th / 223rd pick / 1986 Then Jim Mora flips out and supports his love for his OC Carl Smith and guts the defense starting in 1993. I can not blame Mora for restarting the rebuild on defense though just look at the ages. 1993 was the beginning of the end. Swilling goes to the Lions (Harsh) 1994 Mills is all that remained of the LBers and the DL starts to fall apart. Jackson to the 49ers 1995 Mills is gone (Carolina) and the DL is almost done. Secondary is also depleted. 1996 Wayne Martin and Renaldo Turnbull are all that remains. Mora is history 8 games into the 1996 season. That is 10 years of defensive picks through 2 head coaches to get the dome patrol onto the field as a unit. That is what it takes. TIME! |
Re: Time is needed to Build a D
New Orleans Saints first-round draft picks
Draft Player name Position College Notes Year Pick 1967 26 Leslie Kelley RB Alabama [5] 1968 7 Kevin Hardy DE Notre Dame [6] 1969 17 John Shinners G Xavier [7] 1970 10 Ken Burrough WR Texas Southern [8] 1971 2 Archie Manning QB Mississippi [9] 1972 8 Royce Smith G Georgia [10] 1973 No first-round draft pick [11] 1974 13 Rick Middleton LB Ohio State [12] 1975 7 Larry Burton WR Purdue 12 Kurt Schumacher OT Ohio State [13] 1976 3 Chuck Muncie RB California [14] 1977 7 Joe Campbell DE Maryland 1978 3 Wes Chandler WR Florida 1979 11 Russell Erxleben K Texas 1980 12 Stan Brock OT Colorado 1981 1 George Rogers RB South Carolina 1982 13 Lindsay Scott WR Georgia [15] 1983 No first-round draft pick [16] 1984 No first-round draft pick [17] 1985 24 Alvin Toles LB Tennessee [18] 1986 6 Jim Dombrowski OT Virginia [19] 1987 11 Shawn Knight DT Brigham Young 1988 24 Craig Heyward RB Pittsburgh 1989 19 Wayne Martin DE Arkansas 1990 14 Renaldo Turnbull DE West Virginia 1991 No first-round draft pick [20] 1992 21 Vaughn Dunbar RB Indiana 1993 8 Willie Roaf OT Louisiana Tech [21] 1993 20 Irv Smith TE Notre Dame [22] 1994 13 Joe Johnson DE Louisville [23] 1995 13 Mark Fields LB Washington State 1996 11 Alex Molden DB Oregon 1997 10 Chris Naeole G Colorado [24] 1998 7 Kyle Turley OT San Diego State 1999 5 Ricky Williams RB Texas [25][26] 2000 No first-round draft pick [27] 2001 23 Deuce McAllister RB Mississippi 2002 13 Donté Stallworth WR Tennessee 2002 25 Charles Grant DE Georgia [28] 2003 6 Johnathan Sullivan DT Georgia [29] 2004 18 Will Smith DE Ohio State 2005 13 Jammal Brown OT Oklahoma [30] 2006 2 Reggie Bush RB Southern California 2007 27 Robert Meachem WR Tennessee 2008 10 -- -- -- Notice that RB, OT and DE were the position that we rarely missed on and had the biggest impact on the team. Worst was DT and K. |
Re: Time is needed to Build a D
Well done. But where does that put us? If we go by acquisition date, we are looking at 2012 before we field another Dome Patrol. Not good news.
Charles Grant - 2002 Hollis Thomas - Drafted 1996; acquired 2006 Brian Young - 2000; acquired 2004 Will Smith - 2004 Scott Fujita - 2002; acquired 2006 Jonathan Vilma - Drafted 2004; acquired 2008 Scott Shanle - 2003; acquired 2006 Mike McKenzie - 1999; acquired 2004 Randall Gay - 2004; acquired 2008 Roman Harper - 2006 Josh Bullocks - 2005 If only Alex Molden would have worked out, we would have been wreaking havoc on defense for the past 2 seasons. |
Re: Time is needed to Build a D
Well I would disagree... It all started with Mora bringing in his boys from the USFL and having a scheme that worked with those guys. It was Mora and his staff that did that. Bumm wasn't going in the right direction. The difference now is we don't have natrual pass rushers nor the coaches with the balls to call a blitz at will.
Sit back... wait... bend-don't break. PUKE! A lot of things have to come into play and all have to be on the same page at the right time or it all falls apart. |
Re: Time is needed to Build a D
Saint Defensive Stragety.
We don't play a bend but don't break defense. The Saints play a form of defense that is designed to be feast or famine. It is designed to give the ball back to the offense very quickly or let the other team score quickly. That's why we play so much man to man defense. Either way, we get the ball back rather quickly. This assumes of course that you can score a lot of points too. The Saints have proven to have one of the top 5 offenses in the league. The problem comes when you come up against another top rated offense. It's a stragety that worked fine in 2006 and sucked in 2007. Still, with the players we've added, we should be improved on defense. We really need a true #2 WR and a top rated RB to keep the offense going and secure Payton's offensive genius status. This is why I think Payton will peeve us and draft Mendenhall unless somebody make us a great offer to trade down since there are no true defensive players worthy of a #10 pick. |
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Bend don't break = feast or famine. Bend don't break was used by the staff last year. It only worked because teams were not very prepared to play us since there wasn't a whole lot of info on our offense at that time nor defense. Thats the only way it was successful. Its usually pretty status Quo... when new staff takes over offensive production picks up for the first year - usually. Even Haslette had a good run. Once teams figured out they could pass on us because we could not get to the QB... we were toast ever since. I disagree with getting the ball quickly strategy though. The stradegy is to stop the other team from scoring... defense FAILED. Even if our bend don't break/feast of famine D is to let the other team score... you can't let the other team score more than us??? With that theroy the D is AWESOME all the time because they let the other team score and give us the ball back... YAY! Go D. LOL. |
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exactly... this draft is very top heavy... after about the to 7 or 8 picks.. there isnt anyone really available that is that must have player and it continues on to about the end of the first round.. there are about 20 or 25 players who a descent players but they are all pretty much the same grade value overall... |
Re: Time is needed to Build a D
True Dat, but back then there was no Free agency it is much easier and faster to build a defense these days.
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Re: Time is needed to Build a D
This was pointed out to me by a good friend.
Dear Euph... Just for the record, the Saints play a DON'T BEND OR BREAK DEFENSE. Think about the Saints defense the last two years and you will see what I mean. I'm not saying it's a good thing, and your point is well taken. We will be better in 2008. Back on thread topic. |
Re: Time is needed to Build a D
Sit back... wait... bend-don't break. PUKE!
I would much rather go down in a blaze of glory than like a burnt cinder. |
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Re: Time is needed to Build a D
Whatever we want to call the defensive philosphy, it was not pretty last year. At first hearing the idea of Mendenhall at 10, I wanted nothing of the sort but the more I let the idea sit and chew on it a little bit, it could turn out to be a solid move. Maybe its just me, but I think that the CB position is deep this year and there is no truly #1 CB that is head and shoulders above the rest. Also, there are rumors that Carolina is hot on the tail of Mendenhall and I would prefer to see him running over their defenders than running behind their blockers.
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Re: Time is needed to Build a D
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I watched every game the past 4 years and its bend don't break. You give your opponets just enough and without letting them score. What it appears to be doesn't mean its what its ment to be. Letting the opponet score isn't Defense at all is it? Why would we pay millions of dollars for some goober to stand on the field and play D at all? just walk off the field so no one is there to risk injury then. We'd get the ball back in 10 seconds or less that way. |
Re: Time is needed to Build a D
To suggest that our defense is built to stop the O quickly or let them score quickly in order to get the ball back to our O is absurd. So you're saying that our coaching staff is happy every time we get beat for a 50 yard TD pass? I guess that explains why it happens so much!
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Re: Time is needed to Build a D
.. and here I thought the defense the Saints played was the "No Defense Defense"..
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Re: Time is needed to Build a D
To quote Payton Manning "Your Defense is Offensive". LOL.
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"THE NO DEFENSE DEFENSE", got a ring to it... I like it. So who is going to make it into a poster and have it at a game? lol. |
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1981: Bum Phillips: LB Rickey Jackson PIttsburgh 6-2, 243, Round 2 / # 51 DE/DT Frank Warren Auburn 6-4, 285, Rond 3 / # 57 CB Johnnie Poe Missouri, 6-1, 190, Round: 6 / # 144 NT Jim Wilks San Diego St. 6-5, 266, San Diego State Round: 12 / # 305 1982 Bum Phillips: LDE Bruce Clark Penn State 6-3, 273, via CFL Toronto Argonauts, WLAF Barcelona Dragons. Drafted by GB round 1 / #4, they get our #12 pick in the 1984 draft for him. NT Tony Elliott North Texas 6-2, 282, Round: 5 / # 114 K Morten Andersen Michigan State Round 4 / # 86 1983 Bum Phillips: A wash TE John Tice and OC Steve Korte was it. 1984: Bum Phillips: RDE James Geathers Wichita State 6-7, 290, Round 2 / # 42 (still one of my all time favorites) P Brian Hansen Souix Falls Round 9 / # 237 RILB Vaughn Johnson North Carolina State 6-3, 235, round 1 / # 15 supplemental 1984 ( had to wait a couple of years but he did come home.) 1985 Bum Phillips / Wade Phillips SS Brett Maxie texas Southern 6-2, 194 UDFA LB Jack Del Rio USC 6-4, 246, Round 3 / # 68 ( personality clashes LOL) You are telling me he did not have a hand in building the talent? LOL give me a break. Bum laid the foundation. The only thing More did was bring in Sam Mills from the USFL. He did draft Swilling. Do not give him the credit! DC Capers deserved the credit. It was Capers who got Mills to come to NO. Mora should have been showed the door in 1993 not Capers. Mora could not get an offense on the field to compliment the defense he had. He added very few pieces to the team that really stuck around. Bum definitely out drafted. Like I said the down fall was Mora refusal to admit Carl Smith was not the OC to get the job done. To get his point across he fired Capers. Who as we all know went into Carolina and put together a great team in a short time. Proof comes after 1992 and how fast they fell apart. Just like the team Ditka left was strong and we watched it fall apart. Now we are trying to rebuild it. If we can match the 4 draft years of Bum we are going to be set for the next 10 years. |
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Saints 2007 Preview: The Real Miracle Season - FanHouse - AOL Sports Blog Cold, Hard Football Facts.com: Dominant Dozen: Week 15 2006 SFIAH |
Re: Time is needed to Build a D
The good news is even Bum had one bad draft, so hopefully Payton and staff can rebound from last year's debacle, and come back with a draft closer to year one. I know that you can't fully judge the success of a draft until about three years later, but I have a feeling most of the year two draftees will never pan out into starters, whereas in year one we have two players who will be studs at their respective positions for a long time in Evans and Colston, a player who has the potential to be game changing in Bush (he just needs to prove to me that hw can do this on a consistent basis. As of right now, due to the position he was drafted in he is a bust. I like Reggie but if he doesn't improve he will never warrant the #2 overall and the endless hype), a great backup OT in Strief, and we'll be able to see how good Harper can be this year. He will be two years removed from the ACL injury, so no more excuses. At least he played his rookie year.
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Re: Time is needed to Build a D
Good find SFIAH
____________________________________________________________ 2006 Defense: The Saints ran an unusual defense last year -- the break but don't bend variety (yes, you read that correctly). Their job primarily was just to get the ball back to the offense, either by forcing an early three-and-out or by quickly giving up the big score. And they succeeded one way or the other. They still finished with the 11th overall defense, but causing turnovers was a major problem. ___________________________________________________________ I trust that we will play some form of it again because it helps foster Payton legend as a great offensive genius by giving the Saints offense more time on the field. Only a few teams can truely exploit the Saints defense which is it's offense. You need to either have a very good offense or a good offense and a great defense. Still, there no denying that this will not win the Superbowl. The break but don't bend defense will keep your defense off the field which keeps them fresh in the 4th quarter and keeps opposing teams defense on the field so they are worn out in the 4th. In any case, the Saints offense needs to be really good to make up for our defenses short comings until we get the players necessary to play outstanding defense. Last year we were not prepared for the loss of Deuce and no way I'm or Payton going into the season with a bunch of 3rd down back after Deuce who will prove to be washed up. We have the best QB in the league and now we need a TRUE #1 RB to keep our offense #1 in the NFC. Payton has to know this. |
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I LOVE IT! It's so accurate, great name. You know, I think I'll have to write that onto my Saints gameday brown paper bag. |
Re: Time is needed to Build a D
.. I aim to please :)
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Re: Time is needed to Build a D
Need to make sure you get royalties... and I get a cut because I pointed it out right. LOL.
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Re: Time is needed to Build a D
... sorry, bro.. I'm open source :)
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