Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

What do we have to do, to trade up, and get this kid? Is there any scenerio, that works? I have to say, that I have seen this kids workouts, and I have this wonderful vision, of him in black and gold. What are the trade possibillities, and how much would we lose trading up? Smitty?

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

well it really depends on how far up we would have to go...

Miami isnt likely to select him since they run the 3-4 and STL has a couple high priced DTs so they are likely out of it so that leaves ATL at 3... i dont think they really want matt ryan so dorsey could be headed there so that means we would have to at least get up ahead of them to #2 overall...



the #2 pick is worth a value of 2600 pts and our pick #10 overall is worth 1300 pts.. so we would still have to give up another 1300 pts

our 2nd rounder is worth 500 so that would leave us with another 700 to go... all first round picks in next years draft are worth 800 pts so we could do that and have enough.. and probably get a replacement 4th this year..

so that totals to...


New Orleans gets #2 overall (1st round) and #97 overall (4th round)

Saint Louis gets #10 overall (1st round), #40 overall (2nd round) and the Saints first round pick in the 2009 NFL draft

thats kinda steep...

if he slips past ATL, then the next likely trade partner would be Oakland, who has a lot of money tied up and could be looking to trade out of the #4 slot which is a real possiblilty since they just gave all that money to Tommy Kelly and then signed former first round DT William Joseph.. they are already over the cap already and they would have to make some big cuts to sign a #4 overall pick...

that trade might look like this:


Saints get #4 overall (1st round)

Oak gets #10 overall (1st round) and #40 overall (2nd round)

Value Totals given up..

N.O. pick 10 (1300 pts) + pick 40 (500 pts) = 1800 pts
Oak pick 4 (1800 pts) = 1800 pts


if he slips past ATL, and then Oakland decides to select someone at #4 (McFadden???), then we might be able to trade with KC, who will probably be looking to tradeout of the #5 spot and still pick up one of the Olineman who are tabbed as mid-first rounders... so that trade would look like this:


Saints get #5 overall (1st round)

KC gets #10 overall (1st round) and the Saints 2nd round pick in 2009


Value totals given up...

N.O. pick 10 (1300 pts) + 2009 2nd rnd pick (400 pts) = 1700 pts
K.C. pick 5 (1700 pts) = 1700 pts

or

Saints get #5 overall (1st round) and #101 overall (4th round)

KC gets #10 overall (1st round) and #40 overall (2nd round)

Value Totals given up..

N.O. pick 10 (1300 pts) + pick 40 (500 pts) = 1800 pts
K.C. pick 5 (1700 pts) + pick 101 (96 pts) = 1796 pts

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

I really believe our best chance at getting Dorsey would happen if New England or New York would trade up to #3 with Atl.. Atl thinking that they could move down a few slots and still get Dorsey b/c after the raiders and chiefs, who both have big money tied up in the DT position, the next 3 teams Jets, Patriots, and Ravens.. all run the 3-4 and then Cincy is contemplating a switch to the 3-4....

Pats or Jets trade up and select Gholston.. Atl goes to #6 or #7..
Raiders have loads of money in the DT position so they take mcfadden..

If the Jets trade their #6 with Atl for their #3, then we trade with KC #5 to get Dorsey right before the falcons at #6

If the Pats trade their pick #7 to Atl for their #3, then we can trade with either KC at #5 or New York Jets at #6, to take Dorsey right before the Falcons at #7..

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

nice foresight pak
thanks for breaking it down

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

I try to do what I can do when I can do it...

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

Nice avatar STPAUL...

Great job with the breakdown PAK - always insightful.

I think the real question is Do you feel like the team made enough moves in the offseason to make a move up to top 5 pick and give up their 2nd round or are the picks more important this year? We've already lost a 4th - Look for us to trade back in the third.

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

well i think that dorsey is the most nfl ready defensive rookie in this years draft along with DE chris long... and if we did get dorsey it would instantly improve our whole defense and put us as the favorite to win the south... do i feel it would be worth it.. yes.. i do... dorsey is the best DT prospect since warren sapp and without all the run-ins with the law.. the kid would be great for the community and is a really hard worker.. always giving 100%.. never takes plays off.. he is going to be a monster

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

Well, I guess anything is possible on draft day. I watched him in the championship game, and his motor never stops. He is a true beast of a DT, and I would rather lose some now, to get him, and not take the chance on Atlanta getting him. I don't want to have to face him twice a year, for the next six or seven seasons. I say pull the trigger, if the possiblility is there. Thanks pak.

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

Ya know... there is that saying if he is your guy then you go get him. I think we would be vastly improved on D with his addition. Not only that but our DT aren't getting any younger.

How many times we let our La. products play else where. This guy has given a lot to Louisiana fans playing for LSU and hell why not bring him to Black and Gold. We got Reggie to increase our fan base but what about doing something to honor our local fan base.

It seems to me that Payton has every reason to after Dorsey at all costs and justify it. Thats whats crazy about the position we are in with FA and who we have on our roster that ANYTHING is possible.

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

If we could get Lito Shepard from the Eagles, than we could get a CB in a later round and we’ll have the leeway to go after Dorsey or Rivers or Ellis.

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

This may be an odd suggestion, but I kind of thought of it while reading something yesterday about Quinn and the Raiders. It (not sure where I read it) said that they gave Quinn a low ball figure to take him #1 and he turned it down.
I wonder if we could get into negotiations with Dorsey and tell him we'll trade up to #1, but his salary wouldn't be #1 level. He would still make money and would be able to stay in his home-state. He would also be able to be part of a winning team with a chance for a championship this year.

Just a thought.

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

Oh yea,
All this is somewhat based on the idea that Miami wants to get rid of their pick. So they would be able to get a lower pick, but not so low to where they couldn't get a upper level player at a significantly lower price.

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

I don't think we need a 'another' CB. Rivers seems to be the choice at 10 for us if he is still there. Dorsey would sure help our Secondary look a bit better by creating pressure. I think its worth going after Dorsey.

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

Ahhhh yes. Isn't it nice to dream.. lol. Look, WHOEVER gets picked at #1 will have enough $$$ to live-visit-vacation wherever they want.

As for a winning team... the Saints haven't exactly proved that (YET). What they have done is signed a bunch of second-tier/injured/"could-be-great-if" players... JUST LIKE LAST YEAR.

Don't get me wrong.. I loooove the Saints on paper. But that's what I say every year.

But I digress... Let's offer GD less money than a #1 pick should get and tell him he gets to anchor a pass rush that was non-existent last year and as a bonus he gets to live in New Orleans... IN NEW ORLEANS. (Pretty sure that's not a selling point)

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

Now on the flip side, I would definitely pursue GD all the way up to #6 overall. Okay, maybe even #5. This guy could be the double-team dream the Saints have been missing.

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

Ouch! I meant, compared to the Falcons, we are a winning team, and yes, I think living in New Orleans compared to Atlanta would be better. Also, when I said less than #1 pick, I meant not Jamarcus Russell money. I do think that a chance to win a championship is something. He did stay an extra year LSU because he believed they could win the SHIP.

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

i honestly believe Atlanta would take him out of spite. : ) j/k

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

I will save everybody the trouble, we wont be able to move up to #2 and atl will take him at 3. Sorry, I know it sux but thats how i see it.

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

I'd much rather trade up with Baltimore at #8 to get ahead of Cincy at #9 and snag Ellis. I think he will be every bit as good as Dorsey with a much less expensive price tag up front. I think everyone has Ellis locked with Cincy at #9. We know Baltimore wants a QB and would rather pick Ryan at 10 than at 8. How much do we have to give up to Baltimore to move up 2 spots?

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

based on the value chart, its only 100 point difference from 8 to 10.. that would about a 4th round pick.. which we dont have this year since we used it in the vilma trade

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

Someone correct me if I am wrong - (and I am sure someone will after all it is me-Euphoria, lol).
Its illegal for a team to negociate with a player contract wise before he is even drafted, unless you are however the #1 team in the draft which is Miami.
They (Miami), can discuss with whomever they feel is going to be there pick and ink a contract now if they like to. Miami can also declare what they are going to do with the pick and announce it as early as they like to. The #2 team can't do anything until the commissioner tells them they are on the clock.
The only way to be able to discuss with Dorsey Legally is for the Saints to trade up and then negociate with him.

- I don't have a problem paying Dorsey #1 money if we drafted him number 1.

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

I didn't realize that. My bad.

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

Well, the highest paid DT in the league is Tommy Kelly from Oakland, and he has a 7 year/50mil deal with 18mil guaranteed.
I don't think Miami or St. Louis will get him for financial reasons.

Would Atlanta pick him at Joe Thomas's deal 5 year/42mil with 23mil guaranteed which would make him the highest paid DT in the game.

Would Oakland pick him at Gaines Adams deal 6year/46mil with 18 guaranteed which would pretty much match the aforementioned DT Tommy Kelly on the same team.

Money Talks sometimes.
I really think Atlanta will take him.

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

atlanta has soooo many needs though. its not like they even have a descent QB. not to mention they lost their top cb to oakland. i just dont know if dt, should be their biggest concern. if any team NEEDS to go offense its ATL. hands down.

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

[QUOTE=pakowitz;160053]so that leaves ATL at 3... i dont think they really want matt ryan so dorsey could be headed there so that means we would have to at least get up ahead of them to #2 overall...


If Atlanta does not take Glen Dorsey (provided he is still on the board) then this could be one of those "WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!!!"
moments that will be revisited for a decade.

For what it is worth.
I think Dorsey is as close to "Can't Miss" as it gets in this draft.
While I do not believe there is any chance of Dorsey falling to #10.........

I hope the Falcons choose their "QB of the future".
Whomever that may be.

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

Bottom line is, that you don't build a team, around a defensive tackle. Even if he goes to Atlanta, that franchise will not be sniffing the play offs anytime soon. If quarterback is their most glaring need, then they would be idiots not to take one. Or how about wide reciever? Or offensive lineman? They need someone on the field that can score points, and after their recent "garage sale", of just about every player they had who was worth a crap on either side of the ball, their general manager needs to be thinking offense, for pretty much this entire draft. Just my ten cents.

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

Atlanta's not going to pass on a RB or QB "of the future".

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

Atl will pick dorsey at 3 my opinon , if we can get ellis at the 8th spot great. if not drc or rivers will improve or d either way. No way do we make a move to get dorsey it will cost us too much.

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

I agree with that statement. I'd LOVE to have Dorsey on this team, I mean LOVE IT. But we have so many needs on D... I think it'd be smarter to trade down.

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

GD is such a difference maker that the rest of the defense WILL BE BETTER.

Think we'll get more sacks with GD getting double-teamed....YES.

Think our LB's will be better behind Dorsey...YES.

Think our secondary will look better with a solid pass rush... YES.

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

I have to agree with this... in fact I have GD going to KC at this point.

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

True, all true points. But another thing to consider is Dorsey won't be on the field for every defensive snap, no matter how good his conditioning or motor are. He'll need spelling, just like everyone else in the defensive rotation. Further, there will be times when he's playing hurt, or out of the game completely due to injury. And during the rest of those plays, our weaknesses at LB, S, and CB will be prominently displayed.

To me, trading up to get Dorsey, resulting in leaving those other positions unaddressed, is a recipe for failure on defense.

But of course... I'd LOVE to have Dorsey, as I stated before. If we didn't have to trade away our other picks to get him, I'd draft him in a heartbeat.

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

Guys, don't forget that we don't necessarily have to package another high pick with our first rounder to move up. For instance, Kansas City needs both offensive lineman and wide receivers. Henderson and Stinchcomb are players with decent trade value, and we have good depth at their positions.

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

Well Atlanta just signed Michael Turner to a lengthy and lucrative contract to go along with Jerious Norwood. I highly doubt they're going to select McFadden. Quarterback on the other hand might be a different story. I don't view Matt Ryan as a franchise quarterback that will turn that organization around. I can see them passing on Ryan and wait for a Henne, Brohm, or Flacco in the second.

Re: Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey...
 

Michael Turner had the luxury of a good offensive line in San Diego, which is something Atlanta doesn't have, as you can see by the numbers Norwood put up last season.

Atlanta is a rebuilder, in every sense of the word. That offense is attrocious, and to be honest, the defense isn't much better. If I were on defense, I wouldn't want to play for a team, that is so bad offensively, that I'm going to be on the field 75% of every game we play next season. Dorsey will get worn down fast on a team like this.