Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

The defense will improve greatly. We've acquired 3 players (Vilma, Morgan, Ellis) that have Pro Bowl caliber talent. If the coaches can be convinced to sit Bullocks down and play KK then each and every weakness the Saints had on defense last year (DT, MLB, WLB, both CBs, S) will have been addressed.

This will be a top 10 defense next year. A defense capable of dominating a game. A defense capable of going deep into the playoffs.

The second thing is that Coach Payton offense doesn't revolve around running the football. You're just not going to get 30 carries a game from the Saints offense.

The Saints offense is perfectly capable of managing the clock the way it is.

The running game for the Saints doesn't have to be the engine that drives it. All it needs to be is the reliable counterbalance to the passing game, which is the engine that drives it.

I strongly disagree with your assessment on the offensive side of the equation. Does the defense need to improve? Absolutely! Will it? Absolutely! However, the offense we've had for the last 2 years is a high caliber offense.

But if you read my sig, you know that's not enough.

SFIAH

Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

The Professor has spoken

Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

Could we land Rhodes at RB for a cheap pricetag? He's now available. I mean, it doesn't hurt to bring him in and check the waters. And we could ALWAYS use a little padding at the position.

Raiders release RB Rhodes - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

As much as I would love Deuce at 100% I don't think it's going to happen, alteast not for the better half of the season. Maybe we'll be able to run by committee as Deuce gradually works his way back to full speed. I don't know why they don't let Karney share the pounding loads on 3rd down short yardage situations? I would take this over double reverse fumbles as happened at the end of the Tampa game last year. I am curious to see if PT can recieve most of the carries between the tackles along with Steady Stecker.

Peyton is an offensive genius. I'm sure he's thought over the situation and has some new plays to make the committee work.

Forget Dominic Rhodes , bring in Alley Broussard!!!

Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

i too have seen the decrease in the use of fullbacks in the NFL...im worried that it is a lost art....although with the 2 back systems coming along it has brought rise to a newer faster smaller fullback role...the grinders...marion barber, duece, tj ducket.....etc....i think that karney is underused and he is a great talent...one of the best blocking fullbacks in the league...i also think he is clutch when he catches passes and he is great at running over defenders...i would love to see him integrated more in the run game

Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

I totally agree about Karney. It would be great to let him pound it out for the hard yards. We could just let Sedrick Ellis lead block for Karney :D

Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

.. it's not that Deuce won't be healthy come opening day, rather how long can he stay healthy.

I concur with SFIAH; the Saints offense doesn't revolve around the run. If Colston, Reggie, Meachem (hopefully), Miller/Johnson do their thing, PT and Stecker are more than capable of handling the hand-off .

Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

Hell yeah! Has this kid done anything but gain yards and score touchdowns?? I don't think he's lost a yard or fumbled once.

What alot of you don't realize is that Rashard Mendenhall was behind Pierre Thomas on the depth chart in college - a spot that Pierre never relinquished to Mendenhall until he was signed by the Saints (Pierre Thomas and Rashard Mendenhall are the same exact size) Pierre Thomas was/is better than Rashard Mendenhall. Yet everybody wants to sleep on this kid like he doesn't exist.

If we needed to address the RB position, Sean Payton would've addressed it. Deuce should be kept to spell PIERRE THOMAS, not the other way around!

Sam Mills (5' 9") - No explaination needed.
Walter Payton (5' 10") - No introduction needed.
Barry Sanders (5' 8") - No introduction needed.
Maurice Jones-Drew (5' 7")- Produces, hard to tackle, leveled Shawne Merrypoppins.
Beerman Michael Lewis : D (5' 8") - The Living Legend
Bob Sanders (5' 8") - Fast, hard-hitting, playmaking safety.
Wes Welker (5' 9") - Leading Receiver of 08 Super Bowl.
Devin Hester (5' 11") - NFL record setting return man.
Steve Smith (5' 9") - Multiple Pro Bowler.
Tiki Barber (5' 10") - Pro Bowler.
Doug Flutie (5' 10") - Underrated clutch quarterback, led Bills to Playoffs 2 years in a row.
Drew Brees ("6 feet") - Short, but one of the best.
Deion Branch (5' 9") - Superbowl XXXIX MVP.
Jeff Garcia (6' 1") - Has taken more than one team to the playoffs, and has Pro Bowls.

Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

Career Stats for Pierre Thomas
Rushing Receiving Fumbles
Games - 12
Games Started - 1
Att - 52
Yds - 252
Avg - 4.8
Lng - 24 (Touchdown)
TD - 0
Rec - 17
Yds - 151
Avg - 8.9
Lng - 17
TD - 1
FUM - 0 Lost - 0
2007 New Orleans Saints

And lest we forget that recovered fumble for a touchdown in Seattle, and that 24 yard touchdown scamper against the Falcons.

No fumbles, and nearly a 5 yard average....whoever's sleeping on this kid needs to be banned from all football talk until proven intelligent.

Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

OMG... ive seen this a hundred times.. everyone saying that PT is better then mendenhal b/c PT was the starter...

PT was a SR when mendenhall was a TRUE SOPHOMORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! not only that but it wasnt like mendenhall didnt play... PT had roughly 50 more carries then Mendenhall in 06, yet he only had 110 more yards.. PT averaged 5.8 YPC to Mendenhalls 8.2 and they each had 5 rushing TDs in 06.. that doesnt show me that PT is better.. shows me that mendenhall is a more talented back with less experience but was putting out more production with less carries.. in 07 with mendenhall getting the bulk of the carries he gained over 1600 rushing yards averaging 6.4 YPC and had 17 TDs.. double the yards that PT had in any of the 3 years that he was the starting TB and double the TDs that PT had in any of the 3 years... quit saying that PT was a better back when they were at Illinois... b/c its just not true

let me explain it to you like this... jacob hester was the starting RB for LSU this past year as a SR.. is that b/c he is a better RB then TRUE SOPHOMORES Keiland Williams, Charles Scott, or Richard Murphy? NO! its b/c he had more experience and he knew the system better... any half descent LSU fan knows that a 3 of this years RBs have 10 times more talent then jacob hester..

i wish people would quit saying that PT is better then mendenhall b/c PT was starting.. that really has nothing to do with it

Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

You're absolutely right, we'll see what Mendenhall does next year.

Makes sense about Hester and Co., seeing as how Reggie Bush and Stecker was still starting on the Saints - even though Pierre Thomas was the better running back!

Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

[QUOTE=pakowitz;165966]

..let me explain it to you like this... jacob hester was the starting RB for LSU this past year as a SR.. is that b/c he is a better RB then TRUE SOPHOMORES Keiland Williams, Charles Scott, or Richard Murphy? NO! its b/c he had more experience and he knew the system better... any half descent LSU fan knows that a 3 of this years RBs have 10 times more talent then jacob hester..

WOW! Are you serious. There is absolutly NO WAY that any of those 3 backs could have made the hard yards Hester made last year. Hester is the reason that we won the overtime gams we won. He is definately the reason we beat Florida. Do you honestly believe that without Hester in there Miles would have attempted all those 4th downs. I would even trade Duece right now for Hester ( and I even loved Duece when he was at Ole Miss...and I hate Ole Miss) Hester has power a plenty, sleeper speed and a heart that I don't know how it fits in his chest it's so big. I'll take that anyday over a finess back.

Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

yes i am serious.. hester is a good player but he doesnt have the talent that the other 3 players have.. you cant argue that.. he doesnt have the speed or athleticism of any of those guys.. which is my point.. he was starting b/c of the experience.. not b/c of the ability...

im a huge LSU fan but you really need to take off the purple n gold glasses

Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

He runs a 4.5 40. That is pretty fast in my book and it was his talent that put him on the field.

Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

Jacob Hester
Combine Results
Combine Invite: Yes
Height: 5'10"
Weight: 226
40 Yrd Dash: 4.61
20 Yrd Dash: 2.65
10 Yrd Dash: 1.50
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 23
Vertical Jump: 27 1/2
Broad Jump: 09'03"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.24
3-Cone Drill: 6.85



and i never said he didnt have talent.. i said that the other players are more talented yet less experienced... its really a simple concept... if you really honestly believe that hester has more talent than even 1 of the other 3, then i say u have a man crush on hester b/c he really isnt that athletic of a player, you just let your love for the way he plays influence u

Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

jewagr, how can u say that duece is a finesse back?.....he has been there for years for us pulling out hard yards..catching passes...side stepping....he isnt finesse....he was great at doing it all....jacob hester didnt even come to us and to trade duece for a sub-par NFL back at best would be ridiculous...Duece will start this year when he is healthy....because he has earned it...now on the PT subject....i like PT and i hope he does turn out as everyone claims he is....i just dont see it like that right now...i think the depth chart at running back is unaltered from last year to this year....PT didnt prove ne thing to me that aaron stecker and duece didnt.....reggie is different...but thats a different topic...to say that PT should start over duece is absurd....i hope he turns out great tho because that would mean a top running game to go along with our top passing game....i may be mistaken but doesnt duece have the record for most games in a row with at least 100 yards rushing?....how can u sit that behind a 2nd year player with limited experience...PT will get his touches.....just dont expect him to be starting for us...at least this year

Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

Fist off...Canton...I was not refering to Duece. Duece is a machine. i would never talk bad about him in any way.

Next...Pakowitz....Talent is only as good as the sytem in which it is place allows it to be. Reggie Bush is a perfect example. He is a very talented back but he talent was worthless last year because we ran a system that was not the right fit for him. He is no good as an every down back. We all knew that when we signed him (at least most of us did). For the system that was being ran last year at LSU...Hester was the most talented back. The sytem needed a bruiser adn that is what Hester is...so yes...he was the most talented for the system. As far as letting the way he plays influence me...guilty...because at the end of the day...the way a player performs on the field is all that matters.


Combine speed meens jack...field speed meens everything!

Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

1. Keiland Williams
2. Richard Murphy
3. Charles Scott
4. Jacob Hester

That's how I rank them in talent. Hester was the least talented back but his heart, smarts, instinct, and experience made him the featured back last year. He's solid overall and didn't have a real weakness. Now I wouldn't say we wouldn't have tried all those 4th and 1's last year w/o Hester back there because Scott is a bruiser himself... but I certainly wouldn't have been as comfortable doing those plays w/o him. We don't know if the other backs could or could not do what Hester did because they weren't put into position to do so... that was Jacob's job. But, the other backs certainly were talented enough.

Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

Jerry Rice didn't run the fastest 40 yd either. Game speed and track speed are two different things. Rice has a huge heart and a love for the game. A true warrior.

Does anyone ever remember that Hester only fumbled the ball one time the entire season? Ball security is huge. Additionally does anyone remember Hester running down the Bama CB after an INT? Hester also played special teams.

I'm not taking anything away from Williams, Murphy or Scott nor will I compare them. They are all great backs and I look forward to watching them play next season. Obviously Miles knew what he was doing otherwise we would have not won the title.

Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

Thanks BiggeX. Finally someone gets it!

Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

what about mike karney?...nobody thinks that he will be involved more this season with the health of deuce and reggie up in the air?

Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

Karney has never had more than 11 carries in a season. With the depth and quality of depth at running back, I wouldn't expect to increase much at all. I think 25 tops if we really want to get him involved. Now if we decided to try to wishbone stuff, which is not going to happen, our two back sets will mainly have Reggie and Deuce/PT in the backfield at the same time. When we need to grind, that's why we'll see Karney out there in the power I.

Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

ah the power I....the definition of strong running...if u cant run in the I-form....u might as well not try at all

Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

I say run Karney too. Run that damn I formation all day long.

Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

I like to see big Mike run more too. But till the OL can improve its run blocking it is kind of pointless. Trickery can only get you so far. The OL has yet to prove it is a smash mouth unit in the run game. Only once did I see it. The 8 minute Philli march. Thats what you need to have in order to use a FB. Right now Mike is having problems getting to the second level blocking assignments because he is needed to help open up the holes at the first level. till then he is needed more for blocking.

Re: Do we need to address the RB position
 

Karney is one of the most underrated fullbacks...no....players....in the the NFL....he has openned up holes for our running backs on more than one occassion....he doesnt get much credit because he doesnt have the opportunity to get to the LBs like hagan pointed out...thats where fullbacks make their names.....the LBs of the offense as i like to call them...however....i think with all the reverses and having reggie motion from the slot to take the hand off.....it is very possible to have karney run the ball....after all...when reggie gets inside the tackles he is now a LBs responsibility....if karney goes up the gut he will gain a few more yards because of the responsibility shift that goes into motioning players...i think its a great idea