Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

The Saints’ offseason moves have been directed mostly at revamping their defense, which was in dire need of an infusion of speed and athleticism, and it appears they have collected the parts necessary to improve the unit. However, just how much better the defense will be is hinging on some not-so-reliable parts, including MLB Jonathan Vilma’s knee, which kept him out for half of last season, MLB Dan Morgan’s fragile body and DE Charles Grant’s left ankle, which underwent surgery in January to repair a torn ligament. If Morgan is healthy and able to contribute, it will be considered a luxury, but Vilma and Grant are being counted on to start. Additionally, DE Will Smith is threatening to hold out if he doesn’t receive a new contract. It’s a dangerous strategy for New Orleans to count on so many potential question marks, and one that could come back to haunt them if some of these feeble bodies don’t hold up



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Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

I have been waiting for this write up. The saints are definitely playing the high risk/high reward game this year. If and it is a BIG IF, the saints can keep all the players healthy this could be a great year. My gut tells me this gamble will pay off in the long run no matter what. A record 12-4 or another 7-9 in the 2008 season is what is at risk with this gamble.

So I am going out on limb and say the saints will not play it stupid this year. Expect to see a lot of the bench this year. More than previous. No player will be rushed onto the field till they are ready. Ok the branch is not that small. That is the FO's MO right now. They have done it two years straight now and The philosophy of caution with players will continue this year as well.

This could be the best thing could happen to this club. In 2009 the saints line up could look completely different. Switching position and back ups becoming starter. The experience could make this club something special or then again show us we still have a long way to go. I banking on special myself.

Brace yourself this could be a roller coaster ride next year. But we will look back on it one day and thank god we rode it no matter how the season turns out.

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

The 600lb gorilla in the corner of the room.

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

Vilma's knee is fine, they are blowing out of proportion

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

haha although he did miss half the season last year....and...these guys arent the kid in ur gym class that gets pushed over and thinks he broke his neck...these guys play on things that most of us would be in the hospital for...if he was fine he wouldnt be a concern...clearly its not something that he can just walk it out....however..i do think our injuries arent too much of a concern overall....several of our projected starters are injured but we managed to pull it off last year and i think with the depth at most positions now we can manage to give up a few starters to the bench

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

i'm glad someone wrote about this so i didn't have to.

my theory is in order to make the Saints squad, a player has to have some sort of injury, or a huge laundry list of past injuries.

earn it!

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

I dont have much doubt that Vilma is going to be good to go. Obviously the FO feels the same way since they didnt even invest a late round pick in a LB. I think MM is going to be ready to play but i think the injury will hurt his play, at the very least in the beginning of the year. I like our depth on the d-line, which is something we havent had in a long time. But i would bet $100 that Morgan doesnt make it through training camp. That being said, i think Vilma and Ellis make this defense heads and shoulders better than last year.

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

I believe Vilma will be at full strength and should give us 100 tackles in the middle. If Morgan is healthy and starting this year, we'll have one beast of a linebacking crew. We should easily be ranked in the top 15 in overall defense and could definitely make a run at the Superbowl. I hope Mike and Morgan will be ready for the season opener... it would be a big boost for our ballclub.

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

Offense has injury concerns as well. If we win the super bowl, the MVP will be our orthopedic surgeon.

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

Here We Go....

Ok....from last year..who are we missing due to injury?

1) C. Grant (ankle)- Not much talk about him going on right now so it is either the tipical team keeping it out of the press because he is fine ( I call this the "sleeper" tactic) or he is worse then we thought. It is hard to say right now how he is doing. We addressed this with McCray and I feel he will do better than avaerage as a bzckup till Grant is ready (if he is not right now).

2) MM (knee)- Story on Mike right now is he is doing back peddle drills and seems to be coming along better than expected with his rehab. Will he be ready for camp? Doubt it! Will he be ready for preseason? Maybe! I think he will be ready for the season and even if he is 80% he is still better than the rest of the crew. If he can't go by seasons start we addressed that in picking up Gay. With Gay starting and Young on the other side I feeel we will be ok till his return. The reason I say this directly ties to #3 and #4...read below.

3) J. Vilma (knee)- Will he be ready to step in and take over in the middle for our "D" ???? If he is not ready are we really hurting at the LB position? I say no! The LB core last year was solid, not great, but solid non the less. Will Vilma be a great addition if he returns to full health? Absolutly!

4) "D" Line - Other than Grant, whom we are not sure of right now but have addressed that position already, no other injuries to speak of. So why am I bringing it up again you ask? PASS RUSH!!!!!! Why did the Colts nor the Patriots win the SB? PASS RUSH!!!!! We had no pass rush last year. Give any NFL Quarterback more than 3 seconds to look down field and find targets he will find one and he will KILL you! What do we need to better our "D" all around. You guessed it..PASS RUSH!!!!!! Did we address this? Ladies and Gentlemen...I give you S.Ellis! Those of you that have not, I beg of you, go find and watch film on this guy. He is a quarterbacks nightmare! Pass Rush is what he does! Can he stop the run...yes...but his forte' is the pass rush. I can't wait to see him lined up next to Young. And if we get Grant back healthy I believe we double our sack total and shave over 2ypc off of last years numbers. That is a huge improvement and will also help to improve our secondary. i will not even go into the depth but they are not to shabby either.

Taking all of this into consideration....i believe our defense will be much inproved even if the 2 injuries from last year are not ready to go. I think Payton and the FO did a great job at addressing the holes with keeping in mind that the holes may not even be there if MM and Grant are healthy.

Injuries...right now who cares...it is all speculation and what if...but I say that right now..we are way better than last year as far as talent goes and i am looking forward to seeing this crew getting on the field. With new faces all over the place there will be an adjustment period but make no mistake....THIS "D" WILL BE TOUGH!!!!!!


Jason David...aka "you want some butter with that toast"

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

I think we will be better overall. With no character issues, and some improved dept in some areas of the defense, we should get this defense over the hump. Plus, I believe that they still may get some more secondary help in here yet.

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

007, I have to respectfully disagree on a few things with your post. Specifically this I mean seriously, what other teams would Shanle and Simoneau be starting for? Which few? Any? The LB corp has been below average at best for years. Maybe I saw 16 different games then you last year lol.

You say that injuries are just speculation, but your entire post really is speculation as well. We have no way of knowing whether Gay, Vilma, McCray, or Ellis will have a major impact or how MM and Grant come back from their injuries until September 7th. In fact most of our posts here, from now until the season starts, will really be speculation and a lot of hopes and prayers. We obviously all would love to see all our free agents and draft picks and even undrafted free agents make an impact. I hate to burst bubbles but I can easily garauntee they all will not. It's usually why I'm fairly quiet during the offseason. I'd rather not fill my head with what-ifs long before we even start.

this board does rock though, i love B&G

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

Health concern... no crap, It made me ill just watching them every week last year. LOL.

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

"Grant, who said the injury was diagnosed a few days after it occurred, said renowned orthopedist Dr. James Andrews performed the surgery Jan. 15, reattaching the ligament and cleaning out bone chips. Grant has not run since the 2007 season ended.

"I've done cardio and run in the pool," Grant said. "I work out and lift. But by OTAs (spring camp), I'll be able to run. I'll pretty much get myself back in the groove. You can't really run on it because of the place it is, in the front. You just take your time with it. I think April 12 they're going to release me to start running."

this is from an article in February.. if Grant was right about his release date then he should be ready to go by minicamps

to come back from a torn ACL 4 months a head of schedule would be an incredible feat.. i dont know if it can be done.. im just hoping that he will be ready by week 5 or 6.. if even that happens i will be pretty happy..

one other thing... usama young wont be starting at corner... you can just forget that right now.. he isnt far enough along in his development to even be considered for the starting gig... david will be starting and Gay most likely will be the other..


“We are aware and comfortable with his (Vilma) progress in returning from the injury,” Loomis said in announcing the acquisition. “We’ve consulted with our medical staff and spent time investigating the particulars surrounding the injury, and we’re confident he will return to the standard of play that he set through the first 3 years of his career.”

As for his health, Vilma says he should be fine short-term and long-term. Last season, neither Vilma nor the Jets made any details about his knee injury public.

"The knee is actually doing very well," he said. "I had the surgery in November, so it's about four months since the operation and it's feeling very good. I started jogging two weeks ago and I've been doing leg curls. I'm trying to take it easy."

Vilma passed all the medical tests administered by the Saints before the trade was in place.

"The knee shouldn't be a problem long-term," he said. "I just have to take care of it. There was a dead piece of bone in my knee. In the Cincinnati game, it decided to fall [away]. Unfortunately, I've never had a season-ending injury before. I'm just glad the knee is taken care of."






we have beat this subject to death since about 3 months before the draft.. ur a lil late to the pass rush party.. just sayin..







david should be much better this year after playing the previous 3 years in a zone heavy defense... now if we could just get bullocks to start playing up to his potential...

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

nice post pak but coach payton is very optimistic about josh bullocks...hes said over and over that he is pleased with the play and youth of our safeties...if he likes bullocks then i guess i do too but like many of the ppl on this forum i am a bit skeptical because of his play last season....also i think usama has the potential if he shows up at training camp and performs well to start this season..not at first but he can rotate in i believe....simply because he has good speed he will be a valuable asset to our multiple corner sets such as nickel and dime....i dont know if we run ne other pass sets than those but if we do im sure he will be out there on them and be our gunner on ST

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

..find me a team in the NFL that's 100% healthy.

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

alright then find me a contender that has so many starters down

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

the colts

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

lol the saints

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

High risk / high reward yes...for this year. Even if some of the parts don't hold up this year, or are not at 100%, you have to think they will be the following season. I know the window of opportunity is small but I think Vilma will be a long time fixture in our defense so I say the risk is worth it. Morgan is short term anyway and Grant will eventually be fine. If we can secure WS to a new deal we have the makings of a very good front seven for years to come. We may not get the hoped for results this year but the future of our defense looks very bright.

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

Pak....

Good points but you are baseing your argument on interviews and media. If you can show me one reporter that acctually rpoerts the WHOLE truth then I will back you up but it is very unlikely. And as for the Vilme discussion...do you acctually think the FO or trainers would come out and say his knee is bad and he will not be ready after just signing him. Come on man. All that crap is PR and you know it.

Yes...it is all speculation. That is what I said in the post. That is why nothing is for sure untill it happens. I was simply saying that with our current injuries vs the players we have in back-up and players incoming our defense will be better than last year.

Maximkat... LB...yes I watched the same 16 games as you last year. LBs are dependent on DL in run support. There are few LB that can shed blocks of G & T getting to the second lvl. Bad DL = bad LB ...don't care who it is. Even Lewis and Urlacher strugle when there DL is not above NFL average. Not even gonna talk about pass coverage because our LBs are better than some of our CBs

This thread is about the efects of injuries on our defense and that is what my whole post was about. Our injuries will not hurt us as much as we think.

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

I think that the addition of B.McCray is going to surrprise some people .This guy had 10 sacks two years ago . If he can return to form it will be a excellent addition . Sedric Elliis is going to benefit all of our DEs by getting push up the middle ,this makes it difficult for the QB to step up in the pocket and easier for the DEs to pressure from the outside . The results are that more throws are rushed ,more sacks result and less completions and more INTs. We are two players better in our pass rush department . Don't be surprised if D. Pressley makes some contribution in the pass rush this year also. B. Young being healthy is an underated improvement from last year also. I am very optimistic about our DLINE this upcoming season.

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

we havent signed him to anything.. we traded for him.. and it could turn out to be for quite a bit if he plays like they think he will.. the point is.. why would we have traded for a player if they didnt think he wasnt going to be fully healthy.. thats why they gave him a physical before they made the trade.. if he wasnt healthy then they never would have made the deal...

i think we will be better too.. we will have better depth and that will go along way


now this i agree with...


i also agree with this.. the only one im really concerned about is MM b/c of the relative weakness in the rest of the secondary.. with a bunch of young guys who dont have alot of experience... if we dont get any pressure it could be along year...again

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

Either way the saints will take their usually cautious approach with injured players. Just like they did with Mech, Colston and Bush last year. Look for an active rotation. A lot of the back ups will get playing time this year.

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

Point taken, and I do agree with this, but how many times was Simoneau out of position last year? More than just a few occasions that I recall. I'm just saying, these guys are backups on most teams. Regardless I don't think either of those guys offer much improvement even with a great DL, they just aren't first string material. As to your last sentence...so sadly and comically true...:(

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

... what's your point?
I was responding to the OP. There are no teams in the NFL with 100% healthy players. You look around the rosters of any team, there's always someone in every single NFL team coming off knee surgery, or a sprained ankle, or back or neck problems, etc etc etc.

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

great story !!! very good read

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

uhhhhhhhhhhhh ok....

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

I think 007 had a good summary but the linebacker position was not good last year. A good linebacker should be able to out speed an offensive lineman or at least be able to take Him on enough to be disruptive/hold Him up or block the path of the running back while awaiting support. That is why the Saints made all the moves at this position because there is a deficiency there. Pakowitz is still on about David being the starter and I can't see this happening again. The Saints opponents I am sure agree with Pak and can't wait to see Him out there.
I rather believe the Saints are going to Test Him hard in camp and Preseason. They may try and start Him early on in the regular season but He will be pulled. Jason can not take the bright lights. He is the type of player that shows well during practice but can't take the pressure with money is on the line. If I am wrong I owe one to Pak. Anxious to see this senerio play itself out.

Re: Saints' defense loaded with health concerns
 

I have finally found someone that I see eye to eye with, this is why I can't wait until the season start. I guess this is what makes B&G the best!!!