OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

What is this world coming to.

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

Well deserved if this is true. Going back to mid season last year, he's done a great job alongside Nicks and Evans opening holes up the middle for our running game. The sack numbers and lack of push up the middle by our opponents says enough about his pass protection.

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

It has been an Ok season for the line over all. Bushrod has done Ok but...

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

Saints' Goodwin, Giants' Smith added to NFC Pro Bowl roster

Posted by Michael David Smith on January 20, 2010 6:12 PM ET
The always-evolving list of 2010 Pro Bowlers has two more names on it: Saints center Jonathan Goodwin and Giants wide receiver Steve Smith.

Goodwin was added to the roster as an injury replacement for Cowboys center Andre Gurode. With guard Jahri Evans and tackle Jon Stinchcomb already on the squad, the Saints now have three offensive linemen on the NFC Pro Bowl team. At least, they do for now: They'll all miss the Pro Bowl if the Saints play in the Super Bowl.

Smith is an injury replacement for Cardinals wide receiver Larry Fitzgerald. And although many players at this time of year treat the Pro Bowl like a chore they hope to avoid, Smith sounded genuinely thrilled to be chosen for the first time.

"I'm really excited about playing in the Pro Bowl," Smith said. "It's truly an honor to be recognized by the fans, coaches and players as one of the best in the league."

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

I think someone had posted a list of Pro-Bowl Alternates not long after the rosters were announced. Goodwin and Will Smith were both first alternates. If I remember correctly, Nicks and Colston were 2nd alternates. Goodwin deserves to be there. He's had an excellent year.

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

faine was injured for a lot of the season and played on a team that was terrible

goodwin made the pro bowl by default because of the enormous amount of votes that all the saints players got this season

there is nothing that goodwin does better than faine.....absolutely nothing

there are several bright spots on the buccaneers team and faine is one of them

he will help build their offensive line back up because he is so versatile......hes big enough to plug up the middle and fast enough to pull from the center position as well as gettin up to the second level on chips to help block linebackers

goodwin rarely if ever pulls because he cant

the only reason he gets any recognition is because he is in between 2 of the best guards in the league and because he played on a team that is one of the best offensive teams the league has ever seen

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

His size allows him to hold up better against bigger tackles. But as far as who's the better player, this year it's Goodwin and last year it was Faine... overall, Faine obviously.

Don't see why you have to continually dumb down what Goodwin has accomplished and what he turned himself in to. The man had a good year. I'm pretty sure when players and coaches were putting in their votes, they did so because they think he's a pretty good player in his own right... not because he plays btw Nicks and Evans. Is it impossible to think they all compliment each other and they're all good? The results seem to justify it.

It's like PT all over again... only this time it's Goodwin.

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

ive heard goodwins name called once all year and it was his announcement to the probowl. sounds like a good thing from a center if you ask me.

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

Funny that in 07 I think when faine got hurt and Goodwin went in.....we started winning.
JG does one thing way better and thats calling out the protection changes.

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

the difference between this and PT is that PT has proven himself.....goodwin doesnt do anything to justify starting in the NFL and i know thats hard for people that dont watch the line to understand.....but nobody is going to argue how dominant evans and nicks are

but when somebody can single out a center in between 2 studs dont you think there is something wrong? goodwin is doin a lot better with help from nicks this season, something he didnt get a lot of from jamar nesbit

like you said, faine is clearly the better center but he is playing on a terrible team with a terrible offensive line......who would you rather have in the long run? faine is the faster, more mobile, and smarter of the 2......its a shame that goodwin has to start at center because he would make a great backup all acrossed our line.....he could fill in at any position temporarily.....but he is not starter material

its not that i hate goodwin...its that when people give him credit for doin something, usually it wasnt even him that did it....usually he gets credit for doing something that he is not even responsible for

like the pressure up the middle argument......does anybody realize what the centers job is? his job is to double team whichever DT is lined up over him.....but rarely is his job to man up on a DT.....not only that, but when drew was getting sacked and giving up fumbles early on, it was pressure from the middle getting to him....

everybody gets beat....including evans and nicks, but goodwin cant manage to double team correctly most of the time and thats what gets on my nerves....if you cant pull as a center in the NFL then there is something very wrong and goodwin barely ever pulls because he cant

goodwin doesnt call out blocking schemes, drew does

im not exactly sure what you're talking about when you said we started winning when faine got hurt.....faine was hurt for 2 games during the 2007 season in which we won both games......however, we had won the 2 games prior to those 2 games

in 2007 we finished the season 7-9 and that was his last season as a saint......but you are blamin the wins and losses on him? do you forget about our future hall of famer we had starting at corner for 2007? his name was jason david.....what a stud

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

NICE 2007 all over again. Faine is gone and isn't missed by any stretch of the imagination. He wanted bank and he wasn't worth it... he was the cause for Bush being blown up way to many times by standing around or running right pass a little CB instead of leveling him.

Goodwin's better, and he makes the Pro Bowl because of it.

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

reggie getting blown up by DBs? lol i remember it once

to be honest....i cant recall specific examples of faine blocking(or not blocking)

but i dont remember blaming faine for many things wrong with our team

however.....there were several things that i have criticized goodwin for

i know your hatred for faine runs deep.....pointing out individual examples is fine, but i dont have to prove that faine is better.....money talks

faine makes more money because he is better.....at least he was when he walked....its obvious that more people around the league look at faine as a more accomplished blocker because of the enormous contract he got

there is a reason goodwin doesnt make that money...there is a reason goodwin was a backup for so long.....and there was never a time during faine's career where i thought goodwin was a better option

because of those basic reasons its easy to tell who the better of the 2 is

until goodwin shows me something that i can point out and visualize to everyone, i stand by my opinion of goodwin being a bottom 5 starting center in the league and there isnt a single thing that you or anyone else has pointed out to me to prove me wrong

not tryin to start a fight cuz i know we've been over this several times.....just saying that no matter how much you think you are proving, you are just showin me stuff ive already seen and im not convinced

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

actually I have to correct my last statement I hope he doesn't go to the Pro-bowl because some other game he'll be playing in called the Super Bowl. Our OL is better without Faine.

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

Go Goody Go!!! {Chuck riff } Go Goody Go...Goody played good..

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

i think our offensive line is better than it was in '06.....but you do not get better by subtraction

our offensive line is better because of the development of evans and the emergence of nicks

we may be better without faine, but its not because goodwin put us over the top.....its because the pieces around the center position have proven to be tops in the league

Jonathan Goodwin added to pro-bowl roster
 

Goody is replacing Dallas' Gurode on the pro-bowl roster. Congrats to him!

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

So many ridiculous points...

Why has Goodwin been a backup for the majority of his career? Look at the guys he's backed up. The man just made it to the ProBowl by votes that were cast by his peers... and yet you still believe he's a bottom 5 center is this league? That statement alone says it all.

As far as money is concerned, making more money doesn't mean you're the better player. Now while I feel Faine is the better center, prior to him coming here, he was in Cleveland and really wasn't that good. Not until he played here with Drew, did he start getting recognition in the league. Now if you're going to ask me who would I rather have right now, Faine or Goodwin? Goodwin... no hesitation. Why? He's a ProBowler; we're 14-3 with the chance to make it to the Superbowl; we've run the ball effectively with him all year long; lastly he cost WAY less than his counterpart.

Just a couple of months ago PT couldn't even sniff playing time on the majority of rosters in the NFL... not even capable of being a third down back much less starter on the 14-3 Saints. Now while Faine may be the better center(which is also debatable), Goodwin is the player we have now and the player we need on this team.

This is all so baffling. One day Goodwin... it happened with PT, it could happen for you. One day. Bottom 5... bottom 5. Ridiculous.

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

the pro bowl is voted on by not only peers, but fans as well

you notice how many more fans we have this year? a lot of those fans are just bandwagon fans and a lot of the votes that goodwin got as well as most of our players, are bandwagon votes

i believe he made the pro bowl because of the success of the team.....not because of his ability as a player

not necessarily.....but usually you can tell who the better players are by who makes the most money.....you wouldnt expect a good player to make the least and you wouldnt expect a terrible player to make a lot

there is a very good reason why faine was paid so much and goodwin comes a lot cheaper

does anybody in cleveland get the recognition or respect they deserve? the short answer is NO......faine was part of a good line here in new orleans but he was the only bright spot on the offensive line in cleveland.....

his last year in cleveland he helped reuben droughns become the first 1000 yard rusher in new era browns history......even tho you didnt hear of him....i still watched him in cleveland and people that know football were not happy to see him go because we was so good

coming to new orleans didnt make him good....it just made him recognizeable....faine is a top 5 center in the league and he gets paid like it

other than the pro bowl thing, this portion of your post has nothing to do with goodwin......all you are sayin is that you are happy with how our team has played and you wouldnt make any significant changes to the team......in fact....the only part that has to do with goodwin....the pro bowl part.....also doesnt prove that he is better

you probably didnt know that faine was in fact a pro bowler despite all the hate he got from posters here in 2007

because i was wrong about pierre you think im wrong about everybody......

i was man enough to admit how wrong i was about PT.....why wouldnt i do the same thing about goodwin if in fact he did prove me wrong? i dont have any kind of grudge against goodwin.....i want him to play well and when/if he does, i'll give him all the credit he deserves

until then, name me 5 starting centers that are worse than him

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

I'm not 100% on this but alternates have nothing to do with the fans voting of the Pro Bowl starters.

From players and coaches right?

I'm sure that's how the coaches and players pick... they go straight to the team with the best record and start selecting all the players on those team... not because they're any good.

My point in this was to point out that more money doesn't mean you're the better player. But obviously good players typically get paid more... but that's not always the case.

Imo, he is the better player but was overpaid by the Bucs in a thin market for centers.

Yes? Maybe not by you but when Braylon Edwards had that one great year, he was recognized by everyone. When Andra Davis was at the top of his game, I certainly knew who he was. Joe Thomas right now is considered as one of the best tackles in the league. Everyone knew Winslow was a bright young emerging player in the league. I'm quite sure coaches gameplan against Cribbs on Sundays.

I know exactly who Droughns is. He was a backup in Denver prior to going to Cleveland. He played some fullback and running back in Denver. He even had a 1,000 yard season there. Let's not pretend you're the only person who knows the guy... I watch a LOT of football. Don't insult my intelligence... "people who know football"... ROFL. As far as I'm concerned, there's 5 people that play on the OL(didn't know I knew that did you!?) Each had an instrumental part in helping him obtaining his second 1,000 yard season... not just Faine.

I'm sure Cleveland felt that way... which is why they decided to trade him being that "top 5" center he was in this league. That makes so much sense don't you agree? :rolleyes:

Huh? Did I say he's the better player? Did I even imply that? In fact I've said Faine is better in my opinion. Let me break it down for you... we are playing at a high level right now with Goodwin under center, at a significant fraction of the cost, and he's been recognized by his colleagues as a pretty good center in this league... so right now, I wouldn't have it any other way than have Goodwin on our line. I don't understand how I wrote a whole paragraph about Goodwin yet you say what I wrote has nothing to do with him. :confused:

LOL I was one of Faine's biggest supporters, if not the biggest one, on this board during his days here. Ask Euphoria... lol. Didn't know? Get your nose out the clouds... there are people who actually DO know football around these parts.

Pierre Thomas, Heath Evans, Jonathan Goodwin, Jason Kyle, etc. There are more... I just don't feel like going over all those threads finding them all.

Like I said... one day Goodwin, one day.

I don't feel like playing this game. We're 14-3, have one of the best offensive lines in the league, and our center is a ProBowler. I'm sure you can figure that out on your own.

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

Hey thats pretty dam cool. Way to Jonathan Goodwin

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

its not just the starters that are voted on by the fans....its the leading vote getters from around the league that get into the pro bowl....the votes count towards starters, backups and reserves depending on who gets the most votes

fwiw the first part of that was about droughns....the other part was referring back to faine....people were not excited to see faine go because he was talented.....but many also believed that bentley was equally as talented and slightly more versatile including myself

i wasnt insulting your football knowledge....just laying out a generic statement about the average football fan not knowing many linemen......including faine......just because people dont hear about linemen, doesnt mean they arent any good.....faine was the only lineman on the browns worth noting during reuben droughns' 1000 yard season and thats why i brought that up

good players get traded all the time......the browns felt that bentley would help them more apparently.....the saints sure as hell didnt get faine for no reason......its not always about getting rid of players, sometimes its about rebuilding and faine was part of it.....the saints were getting a proven player that they could help build an offensive line around after they had lost bentley

you are sayin you want goodwin because of how good the team is doing right now....not because goodwin is actually the better player......thats what i was saying....thats what i was summing up so i could better understand where you are comin from

in essence it has very little to do with how goodwin is and a lot more to do with how well the team is playing with the players we have right now

thats not to say we couldnt be better with faine, just saying we are fine right now with goodwin....which can also be debated

lol i admitted PT was good.....heath evans was exactly what everybody said he was goin to be.....he is a receiver out of the backfield.....now on injured reserve.....however, the running back that ran behind our former fullback was second in the league in rushing yards

i wasnt wrong about heath evans at all....i knew what he was....but he wasnt what i wanted.....i wanted us to continue to pound the ball and mike karney is the better of the 2 at run blocking....that is a completely different conversation tho

jason kyle? our long snapper? really? i was wrong about him? i said something along the lines of "you dont fix what ain't broken"......getting rid of our long snapper was a mistake purely because of the continuity we lost......i know our kickin game is significantly worse this year than it was last season

im not going to put that on kyle, but there is something very wrong with our kicking game

you dont feel like doin the work to prove me wrong.....which is fine because we've gone back and forth on this more than anybody here and neither of us is ever going to sway without some sort of obvious change in goodwin's play

the difference is that i am more than willing to admit when i am wrong and like i said before......when im wrong about goodwin i'll admit it.....but im not wrong about goodwin yet

im well aware of how you feel about my ability to evaluate talent but there isnt another poster here who talks down to me about that the way you do......i feel very confident in my ability to locate our playmakers, not at the skill positions, but at the silent positions.....the players behind the scenes that dont get credit for doin the dirty work

players like karney, stecker, houser, faine etc etc

i take pride in being able to watch those players because most people are so dazzled by drew throwing it down the field to realize what actually took place in that play to make his TD passes so easy

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

What team does Faine play for now??

Sorry i looked it up..the bucs..i had forgot..lol

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

lol....hes gonna be real close to us when we go play in miami this year

maybe he can come visit and see what he is missing

for some reason, talented centers dont want to play in new orleans

faine didnt want to, bentley didnt want to.....according to many its only a matter of time before goodwin gets his fat check and moves on

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

You would think they would ..with Drew behind them..I know Drew gets a lot of praise and well deserved ...but our line is starting to get noticed...Im wondering if we let Brown walk...im torn on that one..

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

bushrod is also a free agent i believe.....we cant afford to keep them both this offseason and if this season tells us anything its that brown is clearly the elite tackle that most give him credit for being

bushrod has been trying to get playing time for his entire career but never could crack the lineup ahead of strief......its clear to me why he never won any playing time after watchin him play this season and because of that i cant see us renewing his contract after this season

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

I think Bushrod has one more yr...

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

bushrod signed a 3 year contract after he was drafted

2007, 2008, 2009.....his contract should be up after this season

i could be wrong about that but i remember reading that we had a lot of free agents to sign and he could be one of them

Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???
 

Hmm im not sure..i thought he had one left..maybe not..i was thinking he had been here two yrs..