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Well 08....

I\'m going to line up 4 or 5 wide on you until you stop.....I\'ll let you feel comfortable that you can hold 9 in the box like that. I\'ll be shotgun formation and run quick ins/outs to Horn, WR screens to Lewis/Pathon/Stalls, or just let my fast guys run under fades, play jump ball with your weak rookie secondary downfield and I\'ll bet my ass the ball moves before your pressure applies, that I have alot of uncovered wides and will have too many big plays for you to sustain that defense. I won\'t run the ball once until you drop to nickle D and even then I\'ll throw some deep stuff to keep the DB\'s rocking the heels.

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Alright Lummox ,

I like it , you are going to exploit my man coverage with :
I won\'t run the ball once until you drop to nickle D and even then I\'ll throw some deep stuff to keep the DB\'s rocking the heels.

You are going to call my defense ?

Now honestly , How many deep balls in 2+ years have you seen Brooks complete ???

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Billie and Co.,

You guys are completely missing the point of this. It has ZERO to do with Brooks. Changing QB\'s is about forcing the whole offense from coordinator on down to the line to rethink how they call a game and play a game. This is how you create a SPARK.

As soon as you get off the Brooks issue that does not appear you will begin to understand this a little more.

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08-- Why did I know that you were going to blame Brooks?? Because you blame EVERYTHING on Brooks!! It amazes me that ANYONE on this board can\'t see through you.

The more I read your posts, the more I realize that you really don\'t understand football !! Which would explain why you blame EVERYTHING on the QB.

You want to talk about \"Deep Balls\"? This is the way it works my man. You don\'t have to throw 60 yard bombs to get a defense to change. Do you understand that 08? Because if you don\'t, then you don\'t have a clue. What you do need to do is throw the ball all over the field. Throw some passes of all ranges. Once the defense gets tired of these passes getting completed, they will change defesnes, which will allow McAllister room to run.

You are exposing yourself slowly but surely. Pretty soon even the members on here that have agreed with you will see your agenda. Why they haven\'t already is beyond me.


JoeSam -- You have felt obligated to say that myself and others are turning any criticizm of Aaron Brooks into an opportunity to unjustly accuse members of \"Brooks Bashing.\"
Now, keep in mind I haven\'t accused you of anything. It is you that has accused me. The only reason ANYONE would say that is if they have selective reading. I have said many time Aaron isn\'t perfect and has flaws. That\'s a given. Aaron holds the ball too long at times. He back petals too much. He isn\'t the best in the world at reading defenses. He smiles when he shouldn\'t. Etc, Etc, Etc....

I have no problem admitting Aaron needs to improve in areas. What I have a problem with is members such as 08 not being fair and quite frankly you not being fair. While it may appear as if I have \"Brooks Goggles\" on, that really isn\'t the case. You also seem to be under the impression that I have accused you of being a Brooks basher, which I don\'t think you are. LummOx critcizes Brooks and I don\'t think he is a basher. 08 and some others ARE bashers and if you can\'t see then you don\'t understand the difference between bashing and criticizm.






[Edited on 27/9/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

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FWtex ,

I gotta know , I have noticed from time to time , you spell Billy using the gender female spelling Billie .

Ya tryin to make a point there ???

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08 -- I see you don\'t want to talk about your flawed theory of the \"Deep Ball\"?? I have an agenda too. It\'s to expose you !!

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Billy ,

Post was not written to you , I know you wanna stick your nose in it but you just have to wait ...

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The deal is 08 -- that everyone is in agreement that McCarthy needs to spread the offense out to make the defense play honest, but you\'re too obsessed with Brooks that you can\'t see that. I know LummOx is wasting his time trying to explain anything to you, but I am VERY interested in his response to you. If there is anyone that MAYBE can make you understand maybe it is LummOX, but I doubt it,

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lummox don\'t even bother trying to explain things

if he has seen the frist 3 games of the season and he blames AB for the losses then he obviously knows absolutely nothing about football other than it\'s usually played on sunday, this goes for everyone else who has been bashing AB for the last 3 weeks

i\'m still amazed that AB is the topic of discussion, these arguements against AB are truly ignorant and for whatever reason personnally motivated,

i\'ve gone from checking this board every day to every 3-4 days because all anyone wants to talk about is AB

for those looking to complain about things you should be slamming the secondary the offensive line and the offensive playcalling and if you don\'t realize that then you probably shouldn\'t be discussing football at this level, it makes you look foolish

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you know i just re-read some of the earlier stuff on this thread and...

i would like to know why when i say something i get edited and told that i should start my own thread and that i\'m over-reacting but when lummox posts basically the same thing (more eloquently i\'ll admit) he gets praised by everyone on the thread like he just found a missing chapter of the bible or something??????????

i\'m not mad just curious and nothing against you lumm

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08, the \"billie\" comes from a post a couple weeks ago. It does not have anything to do with a \"derogatory\" remark toward Billy. Some folks here may remember the posts and if so they know what I am saying.

here is the post.

http://www.blackandgold.net/site/mod...hread&tid=2729

[Edited on 28/9/2003 by FWtex]

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We were all wrong. Brooks got benched tonight.

Question: When was the last time you saw an NFL team score 55 points? 55!!! I can\'t wait to hear Haslett\'s excuses tonight. A million dollars right now says it\'s injuries. There are exactly four problems with this team. Loomis, Haslett, Venturi, McCarthy. If I\'m Benson, I fire them all right now. Why not? Who\'s our linebackers coach? Really, could any position coach on our team do WORSE?

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Billy\'s notes :

The ONLY PEOPLE talking about Brooks playing poorly THIS YEAR are a few memebers on here. Looks like to me that you are seeing something this year from Aaron that all the experts don\'t see. Are you that brilliant 08, or are all the experts just that stupid?

Brooks got benched ???? I wonder why ?????
;)

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I can\'t wait to hear Haslett\'s excuses tonight.-WhoDat

Yeah, maybe he and the coaching staff will take responsibility like he did last week as if he\'s never been responsible before. That\'s the trouble with this guy. He and his coaches decide who\'s gonna be on this team and then complains that they can\'t tackle and they make too many mental mistakes. I can see it once in a while but Haslett sounds like a broken record. If he and his staff are such lousy judges of talent then he needs to go...and soon.

I hope Benson saw this debacle...it\'s been a while since he was able to twirl that stupid parasol of his...

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Haslett Post-Game
Promises to make \"whatever changes necessary\" for good of team. Seemed to imply that no one safe.

Note : Brooks first to be benched ...... ;)

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Brooks is safe....for now. Haslett is the captain of the SS BrooksTanic, he\'ll wreck his career on that kid.

What it probably means is some coaches are getting canned in the next week or two to take the heat off Hazmatic. Was it just me, or did it look like he was giving Venturi a cussing on the sidelines tonight?

And with more injuries, what\'s he really going to do with players? Man the more I look at this the muddier it all seems to get.

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08 I caught that too and have the same feeling. The last question was specifically about Brooks playing next week. Haslett did not give his \"brooks is god\" crap like he usually does.

I did not expect the blowout tonight otherwise I think my prediction would be really close. Next week Brooks will start but he may not get past the 1st QTR.

I think we will begin to see changes being made this week. Haslett is now in damage control mode in hopes of protecting his job. Saints front office is in damage control for next year season ticket sales. I think McCarthy is gone! I wish I was in the saints office to see if there are private meetings going on or if a few Admins are mysteriously out of the office a few days this week. They will be consulting with people close to the league looking for ideas.

There has not been a Team in the league that I can remember who has had so much potential yet played so so poorly. Right now the saints are the bottom feeders.

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Not sure if Benson is the pull the plug in the middle of the season guy . History dictates he is the big bang kinda guy .

Kick open the door and blow them all away after the season is over kind of way of doing things .....

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Agreed 08.

But I will go on record and say this. From top to bottom, from Loomis down to the lowest equipment guy on the totem pole, this MAY be the worst Saints team in 25 years. I say that for one reason. Never, and I mean never, have the Saints had close to this kind of talent. To be playing this poorly in unforgiveable. I didn\'t think this team would be much better than 8-8 at the start of the season. Right now, even that mark looks out of reach. You wanna talk about shock and awe... I feel like an Iraqi right now, watching my country getting absolutely destroyed.

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Let me start by saying I was wrong about this team, unless there is some kind of miracle turn around. I highly doubt that will happen !! Right now it appears that we are the worst team in the league.

On defense injuries CANNOT be used as an excuse for playing that poorly. I think a good defensive coordinator can take ANY players and get them to play better than what our defense played last night. They looked absolutely lost!!

I have never seen a big of a melt down for an offense as I have this year. The offensive line changes are not working and the pass blocking is terrible. Deuce ran for some yards but overall our offensive line played terrible.

As bad as I feel for Haslett, he has no one to blame but himself. I feel no need to go to great lengths to bash this team, mainly because it will do no good, but I leave that to the professionals. I feel bad for the players and the fans.

I believe changes are neccessary across the board for the coaching staff and now hope they take place. The offense should get back to form with new coaching but this defense is sorely lacking in the secondary and at the linebacker position.

When things go bad for the Saints they go really bad. Right now they are about as bad as they get. I guess as a fan you have to take the good with the bad, but with the talent we have it is a tough pill to swallow.

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Well back to the basics for the team and every member here I guess.

Not that I have been an avid defender of Aaron Brooks, but I have defended him when I felt he played decently, but last night he was definitely part of the problem. To me he still looks like a different person, and by that I am giving him a compliment. He\'s had outings as bad as last night. It was nothing new for him. He looks as if he has at least accepted the fact that he needs to be a leader on this team, and he is showing positive traits on the sidelines. But, with that said, when the going gets tough he heads to the sidelines. Any team takes it\'s cue from it\'s leadership and this team has none. Haslett, Venturi, McCarthy, Brooks, and anyone else that claims to be or is designated a leader role is simply standing jaw-dropped confused. Honestly so am I. WhoDat was very accurate saying that this is the worst team he\'s ever seen, simply because we are squanering more talent than is humanly possible. When opportunity knocks, the Saints aren\'t home.

I was more than worried about this defense in the preseason and was even limitedly hopeful after the first couple of games that by mid-season we\'d come together. You can\'t use injuries as an excuse but it\'s a contributor. I\'ve never defended Venturi before and .....still can\'t. He\'s unimaginative and far too passive in his scheming. There issimply nothing that can be said about our defense that is positive. No player, no play, nothing.

On offense is the biggest surprise. We can lay blame on a lot of individuals for bad throws, dropped passes, missed blocks.....but I think if we corrected any one problem it wouldn\'t overshadow that inept play calling that we are dealing with. I just can\'t understand how we have gone from first to worst in this area. Were we just so different last year that everyone has caught up with us and we have no ability to change?

Last night all I could do was silently sit in shame. That was no loss....it was murder.

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When a team goes from having an explosive offense one year to an offense that doesn\'t even have an idenity the next year, then I have to believe that the coaches simply aren\'t capiable of preparing a team to play.

This is not a team that I am watching. This is a bunch of players running around that have no clue of what their assignments are. There isn\'t a team out there that is as undisiplined as the Saints are. Not the Texans, Bengals, Lions, not anyone !! These teams don\'t have anymore talent than we do but thier coaches simply know how to use the talent they have.

At least by being blown out by the Colts maybe someone will know that drastic changes are going to have to be made. Whether that be by changing coaching schemes or the coaches themselfs, but changes must be made....


[Edited on 29/9/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

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lummox - thanks for the shot out - ya erd?

Billy - way to step up and eat that crow. You\'re being big about it... of course, you know that\'s not going to stop me from changing my signature though... ;)

To me, it goes back to Zook and Meuller yet again. The last season (+4 games) has shown me how important those two were. Meuller was clearly the talent scout for this team.

More importantly though is Zook. I always thought Zook was just a flat good coach. Yeah, he\'s not doing that well in FLA, but I think he did A LOT to help McCarthy from the get-go. I\'m guessing, and this is pure speculation, that Zook was really the architect behind our \"new look\" offense. The change stumped D-coordinators for about the first half of the season last year - however, McCarthy is completely incapable of making changes or evolving and thus NOTHING has changed with the offense. In fact, if anything has changed, he\'s become more conservative and predictable. Haslett and McCarthy may not get jobs at their current levels again in the NFL for a long, long time.

[Edited on 30/9/2003 by WhoDat]

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WhoDat -- If things continue they way they are now, not only will I be wrong, but you will also. I seem to remember you predicting 8-8. Of course when someone predicts 8-8 they are really saying they have no idea how the team is going to finish. It was a safe pick, but if they keep playing the way they have you will be just as wrong as me!! So yeah, I can admit when I\'m wrong but when are you going to step up to the plate??

It\'s really interesting to see some of you to post over and over that Brooks needs to go and we need to start Bouman. Interesting indeed!! Some of you are actually clever and try to cover-up your hate for Brooks by saying he isn\'t all of the problem, but the number of posts you guys write about Brooks would suggest otherwise. Especially when you consider that there are more glaring areas of concern, like the defense.

Anyone with any sense knows that while Brooks might be part of the problem, that if the defense could be corrected that it would give us the best chance of winning, no matter who was at QB. But, for all the infinite football wisdom some of you claim to have, you feel the need to pin it on Brooks!! Not that is surprises me at all, since most of you have just been waiting for an opportunity to do just that.

Right now, all of you Brooks bashers are just exploiting one bad game that Brooks has had this year and turning it in to an opportunity to drive your point home. Maybe Bouman would provide a spark for the offense and maybe he wouldn\'t. Will this team make it to the playoffs with Bouman? I highly doubt it and anyone with any sense knows this. Why not post over and over and over, about what the BIG problem with this team is?? THE DEFENSE !!! I\'ll tell ya why -- Because either:

a.) You either can\'t see it.

b.) You have nothing better to do than post worthless garbage about Brooks over and over and over...

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Billie, just when you take a step forward you open your mouth and take 3 steps backwards.

Just admit it plain and simple you were wrong!! To say someone who predicted 8-8 was taking the safe road because they did not know how the team would play is AZZ - e - 9. especially when most were saying this was a 12-4, 11-5 team. No Whodat was not anywhere close to being as wrong as you.

quote:
\"Why not post over and over and over, about what the BIG problem with this team is?? THE DEFENSE !!!\"

You\'re a HAZDIOT!!

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Thanks FW - I believe my actual prediction was 7-9 or 8-8. I can look it up if Billy would like. Yeah I will probably be wrong. When all is said and done they will probably pick up 6 or 7 wins. We have been embarrassed, but we\'ve been embarrassed by very good teams.

You know, I keep hearing the same quote in my head every time Billy posts - \"If you look around and think, \'everyone here is crazy,\' then you\'re the crazy one.\" Everybody and their mother is calling for Brooks\' head, Haslett\'s head, etc. But not Billy... or Saintfan. Apparently they know something we don\'t.

Billy - is Jim Haslett a good coach? How many of his decisions in the last two years have paid off? How many have failed? Think about it. I bet you will come to realize that the MAJOR problem with this team is, in fact, coaching. If that\'s the case, then how you can cling to the one belief that they hold to most firmly is beyond me. Haslett is sticking with Brooks b/c he\'s stubborn. Come January, I\'ll bet you that gets him a nice seat in the stands right next to Billy, b/c he damn sure won\'t be walking the sidelines next season.

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WhoDat --

So far Brooks is out playing your boy Delhomme!! The ONLY reason the Panthers have won is because of their defense. Jake still sucks in thos IMPORTANT QB STATS that you constantly wanted Brooks to live by. But of course being the hypocrite you are, you never bring those up about your boy Delhomme. Now all that matters are wins. Just overlook the fact that the Panthers would be winning with just about ANY QB.

The fact of the matter is Aaron has had one bad game and has out played Jake!! Why aren\'t you calling for Jake to be benched?? For anyone to be calling for Brooks to be benched they must be saying that it\'s all his fault we are losing and that another QB would magicially solve those problems.

It doesn\'t surprise me at all that the Brooks bashers are calling for Brooks to be benched. All you were waiting on was one bad game. Aaron will be starting this year and next year too............ Better learn to be a Brooks fan WhoDat are you are gonna be one miserable guy!!

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Not sure which is worse , the Brooks bashers who call for a change to potentially better the ability of the offense or the offensive scheme .

Or those individuals that complain about those Brooks bashers posting those thoughts .

I leave it to Admiral Hyman G. Rickover , U.S. Navy

Who said :

Great minds discuss ideas
Average minds discuss events
Small minds discuss people .

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08--

I have encountered fans like you over the years. Fans that think they have the answers to it all. Your insistance that Brooks is the BIG problem just makes me sit here and laugh. I\'m all about the WINS when it comes to the Saints. At this point, I think putting Bouman in might spark this offense. But, I\'m not foolish enough to think that Brooks isn\'t a good QB or that Bouman is going to be the answer to the offensive problem.

Up unitl last week Brooks was playing fine and even WhoDat himself admitted so. But after one bad game WhoDat is screaming for his head. Knee Jerk reaction? I think so !! You, yourself, are an imposter. You want us to believe that you have spotted all the problems on Sunday as you sit there and watch the game on TV. You are more than entitled to post your thoughts, but your expertise would be more suited to be walking the Saints sidelines and really working on correcting all the problems that you proclaim to have a fix for.

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Yeah, I\'m calling for his head the same way you are Billy. You just said, \"I think putting Bouman in might spark this offense.\" Is that not what I said? Up until Sunday night Brooks was playing much better, true. That doesn\'t mean he\'s right. Further, unless this team starts putting all kinds of points on the board, I\'m for a change.

Last year, every time I brought up completion percentage or efficiency rating or any of that other stuff guys like you screamed - they\'re scoring 30 points a game, what more do you want?!?! Points, people like you argued, is all that matters. Now, all of a sudden, points don\'t matter? You have in the past attributed those points to Brooks\' play, you have attacked the line, and attacked the receivers. This only goes further to show that other than Deuce, you feel Brooks is the major motivation behind the Saints ability to score. Well, you made your bed, now lie in it. They\'re not scoring. Are you gonna point your finger at everyone else now?

It\'s all Brooks when they score 30, but it\'s everyone else when they score 10 huh? And you say that I have an agenda!

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WhoDat --

Here\'s the difference between you and me. I AM NOT A HYPCRITE !! Unlike you I don\'t waffle back and forth. Let\'s go back in the past shall we? I said points were the only thing that mattered on offense. But, you on the other hand wanted to point to QB effiency rating. Until last week Brooks was in the top 5 in passing effiencey rating and we had won 1 game. NOW the offense isn\'t scoring points and I\'m calling for a change at QB to see if we can score some points. SEE -- I\'m a man true to my word, I dance to the music my MAN!!

You on the other hand have an AGENDA!!! Your boy Delhomme hasn\'t lived up to YOUR STANDARDS and you have NO criticizm for him. NONE!! Furthermore, Brooks lived up to YOUR STANDARDS and you still criticize the hell out of him. Of course him having one bad game is MUCH WORSE than your boy throwing all those INT\'s in one game.

That\'s why you are a HYPOCRITE and I AM NOT!!

???????????????????????????????

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Gator --
YOU may wanna blame Brooks for the team\'s problems because he\'s the QB...Whodat might even agree (depending on which way the wind is blowing), but why are you not speaking about poor blocking or dropped passes. Aaron Brooks is NOT responsible for the motivation of ANY OTHER PLAYER on the team and if you or anyone else thinks he is then all I can say is...

...\"LEAD US CHARLIE BROWN, LEAD US!!!\"

You think Bill Parcells leans on any one player to motiate another player on his team? Bill Parcells surely does not.

Brooks isn\'t playing consistant, good football? He played poorly last week for sure, and he played poorly in the Cleveland game (without a running attack) last year for sure...what other games are you tryin to hang on him. If you and I are playin catch and you drop the ball you damn well better not blame me cause I threw it too hard or too soft or because you had to actually reach out one way or the other to get it, cause I\'m gonna laugh at you and tell you to catch the damn ball! You call Brooks a \"slow starter\" but you have what, exactly, to back that up with? Brooks hits his man in the damn chest with the ball and the guy drops it and the drive stalls out. Brooks moves his team down the field only to have a lineman commit a pentalty stalling the drive. These two things stop two drives in the first quarter and Brooks is a slow starter? Surely you can see that pinning what your trying to pin on Brooks with that statement can\'t be done if you look at ALL the variables that contribute to the problem.

Is Archie Manning \"Credible\" in your opinion? Did he win consistantly? Is there some other criteria I\'m missing here? Do you think Terry Bradshaw was a \"hard guy to coach? How about Dan Marino? How about Brett Farve? If you do, then tell me the means by which you\'ve made this assesment of these people. DO tell...

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Is Archie Manning \"Credible\" in your opinion? Did he win consistantly? Is there some other criteria I\'m missing here? Do you think Terry Bradshaw was a \"hard guy to coach? How about Dan Marino? How about Brett Farve? If you do, then tell me the means by which you\'ve made this assesment of these people. DO tell...

Not sure about your standard of credible , but they were all leaders of the offensive unit , the same cannot be said to any great degree that Brooks is the same . Brooks is more the Jim Everett mold , good arm and lots of potential .

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Gator --

A fact is something you can prove!! What you have is an opinion. I find it odd that I\'ve had stats shoved down my throat all off season and all of a sudden they are irrelevant!! Now, everyone wants to talk about intangaibles. I\'ll agree that there are intangibles but there are intangibles for every player, at EVERY position, but no one wants to bring other players into question, or at least not to the degree as AB.

The FACT of the matter is that there are other QB\'s in the league that are playing WORSE than AB and their fans aren\'t calling for them to be benched!! How could this be? Because their teams are winning, because they have a DEFENSE and other players on offenese that are making plays. If the Saints were winning we wouldn\'t even be having this conversation, but now EVERYTHING is being magnified. Look no further than Jake Delhomme. He hasn\'t done great by any stretch of the imagination. He just has the benifit of playing on a team that has a great defense and running back. Put AB in that same situation and see if ANYONE is calling for his head.

The QB position is always the first one to be blamed when a TEAM is losing. It makes no difference if the DEFENSE is giving up over 25 or 30 points per game, the QB is expected to overcome this. To say that AB is playing poorly is laughable, when you consider he has played better than just about ANYONE on the team in 3 out of 4 games.

If ANYONE is saying that AB is the REASON that the offense is struggling, then they are IGNORANT !! The REAL truth is that the WHOLE offense has struggled at different points and it has ALL contributed to the poor performance by the offense. The play calling, Deuce, Joe Horn, Donte, Conwell, the offensive line, and right on down the line have struggled and have caused drives to stall. Yes you can include AB as having stuggled at certain times, but to try to say he is at more fault than ANYONE ELSE is ridiculous !!

Why some memebers on here refuse to look at anything else and try to say that AB is at fault is beyond me. To me, it shows are clear lack of knowledge!! And don\'t be trying to tell me that there are not members that aren\'t saying that.

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\"The majority of people here including myself believe AB is not playing well. Yes his play at QB is dependant on others. But to say as you do, that its totally dependent makes the guy BULLET PROOF when it comes to evaluting how he is playing. \" -- Gatorman

Gator, you\'re indicating that I\'m saying something I\'m not...a recognized \"Whodat\" tactic. Brooks is not immune and I\'m not giving the man a \"free pass\". My point is now what it has always been, and that is that people on this board are after the guy...PERIOD. To say he\'s playing OK but he must shoulder the blame because of the position he\'s playing is a cop out. If you KNOW receivers are dropping balls the ncall \'em out on it rather than bench the QB because he doesn\'t hit in the numbers EVERY time. If you KNOW the line isn\'t blocking worth a damn call \'em out on it rather than bench the QB because he rarely has time to set his feet before he throws. Don\'t blame the QB because it\'s easy...fix the DAMN PROBLEMS!!!!!!!!!!!! Jeesh...

As for geting receivers decked, you and I both know who leads the league in that department...seems though that I\'m the only one between the two of us that\'ll mention the \"hallowed\" name, and that name is Brett Farve. He also throws off his back foot and tosses TONS of interceptions too...always has. Got any stats to disprove it? Didn\'t think so. Neither does Whodat or Saints 08.

Bottom line is if Aaron Brooks were to stink up the place for weeks on end then yeah, bench him, but the FACT of the matter is he hasn\'t. He didn\'t show very well last week and that IS a fact, but benching him now is not the solution to the problems this team is having and deep down in your heart you know it. Anyone who watches the games and is willing to be honest with themselves knows it too.