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You should have posted this when the Saints were 1-4 and added: \"The collapse part worked. Great job!\" Ah yes, sarcasm.
Every year there\'s one team that makes it into the play-offs by luck. This year this team seems to be the Panthers. 3 OT-wins in away games - maybe instead of practicing the whole team was send out during training camp to collect Lucky Four Leaf Clovers.
I\'m waiting for the bang.

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Famous last words.

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OK, so some of us want Carolina to beat TB this week. I say, so what? There\'s no way that\'s going to happen. I\'m not a betting man, but if I were, I\'d be putting it all on the Bucs not just to win, but to dominate this game. They are having problems this year, but they still think like the champions they are (until January). They will be pumped for this game for a couple of reasons. First, they are desperate not to fall below .500. Second, they want revenge for the game they should have won against the Panthers earlier this year (remember the blocked extra point as time was running out that sent it into overtime?). I don\'t think you\'ll see the Bucs giving up 6 turnovers this Sunday.

Not only will TB bring their \'A\' game to Carolina, they are a better team to begin with, and that\'s a hard combination to beat. So whatever playoff scenario you are hoping for, you might as well assume the Saints will be 2 games out of first after Sunday (three if you include the tie breaker), and one game behind Tampa in the wild card hunt.

Incidentally, I\'d rather see the Eagles win than the Packers. I think nocloning is right that they will win their division, meaning they won\'t be competing with us for a playoff spot. Of course, we\'ll still need to beat them when the time comes, but I\'d rather count on Dallas to lose 5 games than count on Philly to lose 4 at this point.

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So Tampa is not a better team than the Saints, and they weren\'t concerned about the two games we took from then last year? They didn\'t have \"something to prove\" last Sunday? In the NFL, you get up for every game. The way Tampa\'s run D has been playing Stephen Davis could run all over them.

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PS - Aaron Brooks sucks, Jake is better!!!!


tee hee hee - I just want to get things churnin\' again. (insert Joe cringing here)... (insert Saintfan writing this one down and using it in a month when I compliment Brooks for a great game to show that I\'m really up to something and not to be believed). ;)

[Edited on 6/11/2003 by WhoDat]

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Naw, I don\'t take notes like I probalby should Whodat.

Lemme say I agree with rich006 regarding the Panthers Bucs game Sunday. I don\'t think there\'s any way in hell Carolina beats the Bucs again. They had no business winning the first game really, and for that matter they\'ve won a number of games this year they had no business winning. Sure, it says something about the character of their team, but it says more than that. It reaks of getting lucky...really lucky...and that type of thing eventually evens itself out. That luck was with \'em two weeks ago in New Orleans when they won (or were given) the game against the Saints. That luck ( or specific favors from the officials) wasn\'t there last week, and the lowly Texas beat \'em even tho they ran the ball as good as they have all season...see what I mean?

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im not really worried about who wins outta carolina and tampa... im pinning the saints hopes on the falcons... thats right... i said the falcons... i know they suck.. but if they can beat the bucs and panthers... that would help the saints out tremendously... i know its a long shot but i hope vick returns in 3 weeks ;) no sooner then 3 weeks

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I\'m with ya there pak. Maybe they can pull a \"Carolina\" and beat the Giants this weekend too.

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I had completely forgoten about Atlanta as bad as they are playing right now. It sure would be sweet to see them help us out for once, but knowing the damn Falcons they might lose the rest of there divison games just to spite us.

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Knowing the falcons, they\'ll upset us at home and lose the rest of their games.

They have a history littered with upsets over us. This game scares me more than Tampa.

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LOL, I hear ya Tweeky they do love to come here an screw things up but they seem to need one of our ex players to screw us with.(I\'ll never forget Hobert flying around the dome) They don\'t have anyone like that now . I think well be ok next week. If we can\'t get past the dirtybirds, it will be hard to watch another game all season long.

[Edited on 11/6/2003 by saint5221]

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THE SAINTS ARE GOING TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS







not prediction, not opinion, FACT, no more discussion

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B/c I\'m such the great guy that I am, I figured out exactly what would need to happen for the Saints to make the playoffs... at least in my mind. The more I look at other teams\' remaining schedules, the more I think the Saints will need to win the division to make the playoffs. It is possible. Below is each NFC team currently in contention, their remaining schedule, and how I hope it pans out. I think that this could easily happen. Of course, this plan calls for the Saints ending the season 6-1, but...

Saints 4-5
----------------------
Atlanta (W) 5-5
@ Philadelphia (L) 5-6
@ Washington (W) 6-6
Tampa (W) 7-6
Giants (W) 8-6
@ Jacksonville (W) 9-6
Dallas (W) 10-6

Carolina 6-2
----------------------
Tampa (L) 6-3
Washington (L) 6-4
@ Dallas (L) 6-5
Philadelphia (L) 6-6
@ Atlanta (W) 7-6
@ Arizona (W) 8-6
Detroit (W) 9-6
@ NY Giants (L) 9-7

Tampa 4-4
---------------------
@ Carolina (W) 5-4
Green Bay (L) 5-5
Giants (W) 6-5
@ Jacksonville (W) 7-5
@ New Orleans (L) 7-6
Houston (W) 8-6
Atlanta (W) 9-6
@ Tennessee (L) 9-7

Minnesota 6-2
---------------------
@ San Diego (W) 7-2
@ Oakland (W) 8-2
Detroit (W) 9-2
@ St Louis (W) 10-2
Seattle (W) 11-2
@ Chicago (W) 12-2
Kansas City (L) 12-3
@ Arizona (W) 13-3

Green Bay 4-4
--------------------
Philadelphia (W) 5-4
@ Tampa (W) 6-4
San Fran (L) 6-5
@ Detroit (W) 7-5
Chicago (W) 8-5
@ San Diego (W) 9-5
Atlanta (W) 10-5
Denver (L) 10-6

Seattle 6-2
-------------------
@ Washington (L) 6-3
Detroit (W) 7-3
@ Baltimore (L) 7-4
Cleveland (L) 7-5
@ Minnesota (L) 7-6
@ St Louis (W) 8-6
Arizona (W) 9-6
@ San Fran (L) 9-7

St Louis 5-3
-------------------
Baltimore (L) 5-4
@ Chicago (W) 6-4
@ Arizona (W) 7-4
Minnesota (L) 7-5
@ Cleveland (W) 8-5
Seattle (L) 8-6
Cincinnati (W) 9-6
@ Detroit (W) 10-6

San Fran 4-5
-------------------
Pittsburgh (L) 4-6
@ Green Bay (W) 5-6
@ Baltimore (L) 5-7
Arizona (W) 6-7
@ Cinci (W) 7-7
@ Philadelphia (L) 7-8
Seattle (W) 8-8

Dallas 6-2
--------------------
Buffalo (L) 6-3
@ New England (L) 6-4
Carolina (W) 7-4
Miami (L) 7-5
@ Philadelphia (L) 7-6
@ Washington (L) 7-7
NY Giants (W) 8-7
@ New Orleans (L) 8-8

Philadelphia 5-3
----------------------
@ Green Bay (L) 5-4
Giants (W) 6-4
New Orleans (W) 7-4
@ Carolina (W) 8-4
Dallas (W) 9-4
@ Miami (L) 9-5
San Fran (W) 10-5
@ Washington (L) 10-6

Giants 4-4
----------------------
Atlanta (L) 5-4
@ Philadelphia (L) 5-5
@ Tampa Bay (L) 5-6
Buffalo (L) 5-7
Washington (W) 6-7
@ New Orleans (L) 6-8
@ Dallas (L) 6-9
Carolina (W) 7-9

Washington 3-5
----------------------
Seattle (W) 4-5
@ Carolina (W) 5-5
@ Miami (L) 5-6
New Orleans (L) 5-7
@ Giants (L) 5-8
Dallas (W) 6-8
@ Chicago (W) 7-8
Philadelphia (W) 8-8


That would leave the divisions looking like this:

NFC EAST
----------------
Philly 10-6 **
Dallas 8-8
Washington 8-8
NY Giants 7-9

NFC NORTH
----------------
Minnesota 13-3 **
Green Bay 10-6 *

NFC WEST
----------------
St Louis 10-6 **
Seattle 9-7 (5-1 division)
San Fran 8-8

NFC SOUTH
----------------
New Orleans 10-6 **
Carolina 9-7 (5-1 division)
Tampa 9-7 (3-3 division)

I\'m not sure how to determine who would get the last wild card. At 9-7 with 5 division wins, it would have to go to record against common opponents for the tie-breaker for Seattle and Carolina... I think. Who knows.

The really crazy thing about this scenarion is that the Saints would get a first round BYE!! At 10-6 and a head-to-head win against Philly, the tie-breaker against the Rams should be division record. The Saints would be 4-2 while the Rams would be 3-3. Everbody, cross your fingers, get out your rabbit feet, and start drinking the Tang baby!!!

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that would be great, except for the fact that in this scenario we didnt win against philly, u gave us a loss!!!

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Tie-breaker is the conference record. Seattle 8-4, Carolina 7-5 -> Sehawks in, Panthers out.

Again the conference record matters (head-to-head not applicable, as there was no game Philly - St. Louis). Eagles 8-4, Saints 8-4, Rams 7-5 -> Rams play in the wild card game. Now it\'s back to step one and the head-to-head is applicable. Saints have a BYE.
HYPOTHETICALLY!!!

After Edit: If we win againts the Eagles we won\'t need the tie-breaker. I totally overlooked that you actually gave us a loss against Philadelphia. LOL. Thanks for pointing that out, pak.

[Edited on 9/11/2003 by nocloning]

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Oops.... yeah I did give us a loss. Well, you know, playing out all those scenarios can make your head spin. Sorry about that.

Good news from today - Tampa looks like poo, I\'d pretty much count them out. I know that\'s a dangerous statement, but as close as things are in the NFC with the Packers next week, I just can\'t see Tampa clawing back from 4-6. Of course, they just made it a LOT harder for us to catch the Panthers.

The Giants losing to the Falcons is either really good, or really bad. I don\'t like seeing Atlanta playing like that one game before they come to town, but a Giants loss helps.

Washington helped out a lot by beating the Seahwaks. Seattle and Minnesota both look poised for a fall. I mean, Minnesota looks EXACTLY like the Saints of last season. They came out hot as all hell, they\'re pretty stacked on O, but their D can\'t stop ANYBODY. They could really crash and burn. So could Seattle, b/c, well, they\'re Seattle. Carolina looks like a team that just finds a way to win no matter what. The only thing I will say about them is this:

Last season, the Saints were 7-2 and looked like a team that simply found a way to win. How many comebacks and last minute wins did we have in the first half of the season? We went from 7-2 to 9-7. Carolina COULD do the same, but, well, all that matters now is that the Saints win. Frankly, the thing that I am most concerned with is the Saints. They just have to win. Nothing else matters if they don\'t do that.

Go Saints! It seems really improbable, but it\'s possible. I\'m still hoping.

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I tell you what. I\'m sure glad I don\'t make a living by predicting tht outcome of NFL games. After seeing all the MAJOR upsets every week, there is no sure bet in the NFL anymore. I\'d like to be able to say I could have predicted these games, but I would have lost money on everyone of these -

Seattle 20 Final
Washington 27

Atlanta 27 Final
NY Giants 7



Indianapolis 23 Final
Jacksonville 28

Minnesota 28 Final
San Diego 42

Those are games that just don\'t make any sense at all and I don\'t think too many folks could have predicted. Then you have teams like Dallas, Carolina, Miami, and Oakland that are big suprises this year, based on what the \"experts\" and fans predicted at the beginning of the season.

So, if you think you know who is going to make the playoffs this year, contact your local bookie and put ya money down. You can look at the Saints record and their upcoming opponents and use \"conventional wisdom\" and say the odds are aganist \'em, but it doesn\'t seem like convetional wisdom applies in the NFL anymore. Shoot, just looking around the NFL these days, betting the Saints make the playoffs would probably be as good a bet as any. Of course, I know that \"Realist\" like WhoDat don\'t want to hear this, but it\'s true.(Had to get a shot in on ya WhoDat. It\'s been a while.-lol)

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You\'re right Billy, things are crazy. Any predictions that are made (by me for example) are suggested with full knowledge that crazy things will happen and things will never go as planned. I thought Washington had a decent shot against Seattle and I was hoping Atlanta could pull out a win over the Giants (who of recent are Jeckyl and Hyde). I never in a million years could have guessed the Indy or Minnesota outcomes.

That\'s why I said Billy, \" the thing that I am most concerned with is the Saints. They just have to win. Nothing else matters if they don\'t do that.\"

Still, at 4-5 with games against the Falcons (who often play spoilers to us), Eagles, Giants, Skins, Bucs, Cowboys, and Jags, I\'d say our chances are not as good as a lot of other teams in the NFC. Look at those schedules and you\'ll see Chicago, Detroit, Arizona, Cinci, Oakland, and Atlanta on a lot of OTHER teams schedules. Do the Saints have a shot? Absolutely. I am hopeful. But our odds aren\'t as good as a lot of other teams who already have winning records and a bunch of bad teams on their schedules.

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UPDATED:

Division Leaders
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Dallas 7-2
Minnesota 6-3
Carolina 7-2
Seattle 6-3


Wild Card
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Philly 6-3
St Louis 6-3
Saints 4-5
Tampa 4-5
Green Bay 4-5
Giants 4-5
Washington 4-5
San Fran 4-5

Seattle, Minnesota, Philly, or St Louis better crash or else it\'s going to be real tough for us. We don\'t have a chance to hand any team above us a loss other than Philly and Dallas. Otherwise, allof the 4-5 teams are going to beat up on each other and the higher ranked teams could walk. I hope guys, I am hopeful.

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NFC-EAST winner 10-6, 2nd place 9-7
DALLAS - @NE,CAR,MIA,@PHI,@WAS,NYG,@NO - 9-7
PHILLY - Tough schedule as well. NYG,NO,@CAR,DAL,@MIA,SF,@WAS - 10-6
GIANTS-Toast, FUGETABOUTIT

NFC SOUTH
CAROLINA-Hope they win out. They play all our competition
TAMPA BAY- GB,NYG,@JAX,@NO,HOU,ATL,@TEN - 8-8, 9-7 at best
NEW ORLEANS -ATL,@PHL, @WAS,TB,NYG,@JAX,DAL, 5-2 gets us in the playoff mix at 9-7

NFC NORTH.
MINNESOTA - @OAK, DET,@STL,SEA,@CHI,KC,@AZ - Reeling, 9-7
GREEN BAY- @TB,SF,@DET,CHI,@SD,@OAK,DEN - 8-8

NFC WEST
SEATTLE-DET,@BAL,CLE,@MIN,@STL,ARZ,@SF - 9-7
ST LOUIS-@CHI,AZ,MIN,@CLE,SEA,CIN,@DET - 10-6
SAN FRAN - PIT,@GB,@BAL,AZ,@CIN,@PHL,SEA - 8-8

TWO WILDCARDS...
DALLAS-9-7
NEW ORLEANS 9-7
SEATTLE 9-7
TAMPA BAY 9-7

If NO beats TB, and Dallas, we get in on tie-breakers.

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UPDATED:

Division Leaders
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Dallas 7-2
Minnesota 6-4
Carolina 8-2
Seattle 7-3


Wild Card
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Philly 7-3
St Louis 7-3
Saints 5-5
Green Bay 5-5
San Fran 4-5

Rest is toast.
The Saints are still 2 games behind a wild card spot. Even if they win at Philadelphia they don\'t control their own destiny.

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Obviously, there are some concerns here. Brooks\' erratic play has to make you a little queasy. We CANNOT afford to get down by 17 points to the other teams on our schedule. Deuce is an absolute stud, but he needs to get rid of the dropsies that he seems to have late in games.

At 5-5 we\'re definitely not out of it, and with Minnesota on the slide, we\'ve got a real shot. They look like we did at this point last season - we need them to continue to crash and burn. Dallas also looks fairly poised to fall, and Seattle isn\'t exactly beating great teams. As of next week, we can be tied with Minnesota. Go Saints! We\'ve got a shot.

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Minnesota/Green Bay do not matter. The NFC North should be (or rather has to be for the Saints to make the play-offs) so bad that only the division winner gets in.
It\'s really about the second placed teams in the NFC West and East. I was wrong about controlling our own destiny, by the way. If we win out, we\'re in (because Dallas plays Philadelphia once more). Yeah, if we win out (laughing hard) ...